Player Discussion Mitch Marner Part Infinity

[Gary Nylund]

Personally, I think he’s gone. I don’t think he’s going to want to deal with the public scrutiny anymore. Although, with Berube gushing over him publicly yesterday combined with the fact that Pelley said he’s going to have more influence on roster construction, you never know.

Well there you go, you never know is how I see it as well. Especially if Florida wins the cup and nobody else takes them to game 7, it wouldn't be too hard for them to talk themselves into keeping the band mostly together, a little tweak here and there and next year if Matthews is healthy and Stolarz is healthy and Knies takes another step etc.

Anyhow, I got a fun bet in where I'm betting Marner stays and I'm getting 7 to 1 odds. I hope I lose!

 

[Beneven Stanciano]

teams need a mixture of players , did the Hawks trade Kane because he was small and weak and didn't bang in the corners ? of course not , what they did was build a gritty team which maximized his skill set

Yeah - so you can't have a team with the top players all in that same mould. Bye Marner!

 

[Trapper]

he hasn't been the worst of the core 4 so why is he getting singled out ?

When you have to debate who has been the worst in the last 7 years the whole thing is broken.

 

[hotpaws]

When you have to debate who has been the worst in the last 7 years the whole thing is broken.

the thing became broken 7 years ago when Dubas was hired and decided to try to add the softest support pieces he could find around 3 star finesse players

any even somewhat competent GM back then would have looked at AM/MM and Willie knew the best way to try to a build winner around those 3 would be to add size and grit to complement them but Dubie being the out of the box thinking genius he thought he was tried to re-invent the wheel

 

[Trapper]

the thing became broken 7 years ago when Dubas was hired and decided to try to add the softest support pieces he could find around 3 star finesse players

any even somewhat competent GM back then would have looked at AM/MM and Willie knew the best way to try to a build winner around those 3 would be to add size and grit to complement them but Dubie being the out of the box thinking genius he thought he was tried to re-invent the wheel

I really wish someone would look at this without bias, forget who doesn’t like Marner, who doesn’t like Nylander, management who is stuck in believing failing over and over will magically fix itself because lessons learned and do a serious evaluation of this team.

What is best going forward for both regular season and playoffs?
Is it Matthews out with a new C between Knies and Marner?
Is it Marner out with a different kind of forward? Is it Nylander? Is it 2 of them? 1 of them. But the current structure, doesn’t work. Can everyone agree on that?

 

[joepeps]

When you have to debate who has been the worst in the last 7 years the whole thing is broken.

well hes the only one of the core 4 that constantly refuses to sign.

 

[hotpaws]

Yeah - so you can't have a team with the top players all in that same mould. Bye Marner!

Mathews/Marner/Nylander all play a different style of game regardless of the fact none of them would be considered tough or gritty

 

[Beneven Stanciano]

Mathews/Marner/Nylander all play a different style of game regardless of the fact none of them would be considered tough or gritty

For sure. Working out well too.

 

[hotpaws]

I really wish someone would look at this without bias, forget who doesn’t like Marner, who doesn’t like Nylander, management who is stuck in believing failing over and over will magically fix itself because lessons learned and do a serious evaluation of this team.

What is best going forward for both regular season and playoffs?
Is it Matthews out with a new C between Knies and Marner?
Is it Marner out with a different kind of forward? Is it Nylander? Is it 2 of them? 1 of them. But the current structure, doesn’t work. Can everyone agree on that?

without bias would mean you'd have to include Tavares in the discussion about who to walk away from , unfortunately it seems a large number of fans believe the world will end if JT isn't offered a contract by the Leafs so they are focusing their anger on one player !

 

[hotpaws]

For sure. Working out well too.

try them without Tavares the mumbling ghost and it might !

 

[ToneDog]

try them without Tavares the mumbling ghost and it might !

16 and 34 played with Knies, our best playoff performer IMO. They still sucked. Surely that has nothing to do with Tavares. Was it Tavares' fault Willie was gassed on Marchand's OT winner or why Willie decided to mail in most of games 4-7?

Your hate for JT is not allowing you to think straight. At the right money and role, resigning him is a no brainer. Any team would sign him. Marner turned down $13.5m, he can GTFO and take his friends and family with him.

 

[hotpaws]

16 and 34 played with Knies, our best playoff performer IMO. They still sucked. Surely that has nothing to do with Tavares. Was it Tavares' fault Willie was gassed on Marchand's OT winner or why Willie decided to mail in most of games 4-7?

Your hate for JT is not allowing you to think straight. At the right money and role, resigning him is a no brainer. Any team would sign him. Marner turned down $13.5m, he can GTFO and take his friends and family with him.

I don't hate Tavares , i just don't give him a free pass for his brutal play and shit on his teammates to deflect criticism away from him like your doing .

right money/role ?

he can't skate and is weak defensively so what role is it your suggesting for him to useful to the team ?

why not just sign Perry to a 1yr deal for a mil and change to be a net front presence , that takes the need away from re-signing JT

 

[ToneDog]

I don't hate Tavares , i just don't give him a free pass for his brutal play and shit on his teammates to deflect criticism away from him like your doing .

right money/role ?

he can't skate and is weak defensively so what role is it your suggesting for him to useful to the team ?

why not just sign Perry to a 1yr deal for a mil and change to be a net front presence , that takes the need away from re-signing JT

Was all for signing Perry but Dubas and Shanny chose Simmonds. Sure if you can find another Perry for $1m, sign him but Tavares is the much better player. He is money on faceoffs. Without him, the Leafs are wasting PP time retrieving pucks from their own zone.

 

[notbias]

16 and 34 played with Knies, our best playoff performer IMO. They still sucked. Surely that has nothing to do with Tavares. Was it Tavares' fault Willie was gassed on Marchand's OT winner or why Willie decided to mail in most of games 4-7?

Your hate for JT is not allowing you to think straight. At the right money and role, resigning him is a no brainer. Any team would sign him. Marner turned down $13.5m, he can GTFO and take his friends and family with him.

Knies is becoming so overrated on this board...

A 0.53 PPG by any of the stars would get them run out of town.

People always post Marner's game 5-7 stats, here are Knies' from this year.

5 GP
0 G
0 A
0 P
-10

 

[hotpaws]

Was all for signing Perry but Dubas and Shanny chose Simmonds. Sure if you can find another Perry for $1m, sign him but Tavares is the much better player. He is money on faceoffs. Without him, the Leafs are wasting PP time retrieving pucks from their own zone.

most of the guys we have are good enough on the draw , there's no need to re-sign JT just because he's good on the dot

and the point about Perry is he does everything JT does except take draws and at a fraction of the price

 

[ToneDog]

most of the guys we have are good enough on the draw , there's no need to re-sign JT just because he's good on the dot

and the point about Perry is he does everything JT does except take draws at a fraction of the price

Agree with your second point and Perry adds some nastiness which Leafs lack. I still think there would be room for both. Goal scorers are not easy to come by and with Matty being human, the Leafs need goal scorers.

 

[hotpaws]

Agree with your second point and Perry adds some nastiness which Leafs lack. I still think there would be room for both. Goal scorers are not easy to come by and with Matty being human, the Leafs need goal scorers.

I have to ask , would you still be defending JT if you didn't believe he'll be back ?

 

[IPS]

Knies is becoming so overrated on this board...

A 0.53 PPG by any of the stars would get them run out of town.

People always post Marner's game 5-7 stats, here are Knies' from this year.

5 GP
0 G
0 A
0 P
-10

A lot of the same reasons Zach Hyman did.
Complimentary role, much less touches of the puck than the other 2 linemates, and paid much less (obviously subject to change for Knies). Good thing is with Knies is you can see a tremendous upside and he's very young too.

 

[Menzinger]

I wonder if Mitch would sign and then we force Willy out.

Like would Willy want to go to Vegas? Or LA?

Then you get assets instead of leaving for nothing.

For example.
Clarke and 1st for Willy. Then
Sign Mitch and still have money for a. Kane etc.

This is the 5% scenario.

I would say 55% he resigns
40 he goes
5% we sign him and trade someone else

Not sure that's an option. Nylander is going to be with the team longer than Tre will.

 

[ToneDog]

I have to ask , would you still be defending JT if you didn't believe he'll be back ?

I am not defending him. My position always has been at the right number and role, I sign him. He can be useful as our #3C at the right number. I said wait until after the playoffs and he will be cheaper because I expected a repeat of last year vs Boston. He was better in round 1 this year and not so good in round 2 but he did score a huge goal in game #3 that could have helped win that game and subsequently the series.

 

[notbias]

A lot of the same reasons Zach Hyman did.
Complimentary role, much less touches of the puck than the other 2 linemates, and paid much less (obviously subject to change for Knies). Good thing is with Knies is you can see a tremendous upside and he's very young too.

And just like Hyman he is getting praised for effort and chances, not results.

32 GP
5 G
8 A
13 P

That was Hyman's production here... but he is remembered fondly because he tried.

 

[Stephen]

Knies is becoming so overrated on this board...

A 0.53 PPG by any of the stars would get them run out of town.

People always post Marner's game 5-7 stats, here are Knies' from this year.

5 GP
0 G
0 A
0 P
-10

He's a 22 year old kid who played injured in the last 2 games...

 

[Stephen]

A lot of the same reasons Zach Hyman did.
Complimentary role, much less touches of the puck than the other 2 linemates, and paid much less (obviously subject to change for Knies). Good thing is with Knies is you can see a tremendous upside and he's very young too.

At 22 years old he has similar numbers to William Nylander.

 

[Menzinger]

Knies is becoming so overrated on this board...

A 0.53 PPG by any of the stars would get them run out of town.

People always post Marner's game 5-7 stats, here are Knies' from this year.

5 GP
0 G
0 A
0 P
-10

A bit disingenuous. He's a sophomore and was injured during part of the Florida series.

Analytics are always important but a star like Marner should also be visually a tier above a guy like Knies. And that obviously wasn't the case.

 

[hotpaws]

I am not defending him. My position always has been at the right number and role, I sign him. He can be useful as our #3C at the right number. I said wait until after the playoffs and he will be cheaper because I expected a repeat of last year vs Boston. He was better in round 1 this year and not so good in round 2 but he did score a huge goal in game #3 that could have helped win that game and subsequently the series.

he had 3 pts in the last 11 game , he was crap in both rounds and he'd even be more invisible without anyone to carry him on the third line