Player Discussion Mitch Marner Part Infinity

[tp71]

Man, they have us over a barrel. I wish I could just cancel my Rogers Sportsnet subscription if they bring back the same guys but I can't because I like watching other sports like basketball and baseball.

I just want them to bring back the Canadian Gold theme from CBC, but I feel like thats too much.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Man, they have us over a barrel. I wish I could just cancel my Rogers Sportsnet subscription if they bring back the same guys but I can't because I like watching other sports like basketball and baseball.

IPTV

 

[stickty111]

If Berube had some balls, hed swap Marner & Domi halfway into the series. Alas, he is too afraid of AM & MM, just like our previous coach.

It's kind of interesting as soon as Keefe split up Matthews and Marner like last year, he gets let go.

 

[stickty111]

Nick Kypreos: The Leafs have undervalued Mitch Marner for years. They’ll pay the price when he leaves

It often seemed like Mike Babcock was trying to sabotage his development. And the team lowballed him at contract time. Still, he was the fastest to reach 700 points in

www.thestar.com

So if people wonder why I like this player so much, it’s because of what he needlessly had to endure early in his NHL career. He’s the underdog who overachieved.

The poor treatment gave Marner the determination to fight for his second contract in 2019 when the Leafs made a catastrophic error in judgment by underestimating his production and value. The offer of $6 million (U.S.) a year for the maximum eight years was undervalued for his point production, so it was easily rejected, and his team chose to wait for Auston Matthews, also due for a bridge deal, to re-sign first.

But it was the John Tavares free-agent contract — the seven-year, $77-million megadeal negotiated by former general manager Kyle Dubas — that caused the team’s salary-cap chaos and raised the price for those that followed: first Matthews, then Marner. That put the cap balance out of whack and the Leafs have never recovered.

As we are all painfully aware, the miscalculation to not bump the offer to $7.5 million or $8 million annually for Marner’s eight-year bridge deal (which many believe could have gotten the deal done, even before Matthews’ extension was finalized) was a miscalculation of epic proportions. Can you imagine how differently things may have looked today if it had come together? Marner would have been under contract for two more seasons with an incredible cap-friendly contract.

Instead, the green Dubas focused on the big splash, setting a new bar with Tavares at $11 million a season and Matthews several months later at $11.3 million and it instantaneously drove Marner’s asking price to almost double what they originally wanted to pay.

There’s no disputing the facts — the Leafs are 2-9 in playoff series in the Matthews-Marner era and have gone winless in the six Game 7s they’ve played (and let’s not forget the winner-take-all Game 5 against Columbus in 2020). The latest lopsided loss against the defending Stanley Cup champion Florida Panthers — as unfathomable as it was ugly — was going to get pinned on someone and Marner is as easy a target as any.

Leafs president Brendan Shanahan, with a contract set to expire and the New York Islanders reportedly knocking on his door, will be most remembered as the man who could not recognize that his Core Four was not the cohesive unit he wanted it to be. Management and players can speak all they want off the ice regarding how close and tight and caring they all are, but it’s not what we witnessed on the ice when it mattered most. At times they looked and acted as if every man was for himself.

This band so desperately needed to break up and not one of the decision makers saw it or chose to admit it — or was able to do anything about it before it was too late and contract movement anchors kicked in. And last summer when there was no firm indication Marner would sign an extension, the Leafs could have played hardball and tried to push their star into offering up a handful of destinations he would waive his no-trade clause for. Instead they chose to play it out, hope and pray their playoff demons would be exorcized and maybe, just maybe, he would stick around at their number.

Such a lame reason to defend a player. Kadri dealt with a lot of stuff too yet no writer defended him as much as Kyper does Marner. Both are from Ontario too.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Prediction:
Marner will be back, and by November we will see the same posts we've been reading for years about how Marner's supercrazyelite, and anyone who dares to bring up playoffs will be berated for disturbing people for talking about playoffs during the regular season. They will also be told that they don't understand hockey because they obviously can't appreciate the greatness that's right in front of them. You hate to see it, but I can see it coming.

 

[IronHookem]

It's kind of interesting as soon as Keefe split up Matthews and Marner like last year, he gets let go.

He probably knew his time was over, so he figured he had nothing to lose by doing it.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Yeah I mean in games 3-7 against Florida he put up 1 assist and 3 shots on net.

This isn't a 100M+ player when this is an annual tradition

 

[IronHookem]

Yeah I mean in games 3-7 against Florida he put up 1 assist and 3 shots on net.

This isn't a 100M+ player when this is an annual tradition

He was basically a slightly better Järnkrok, great defensively and a black hole offensively. That's just not gonna work if you want to get paid 14m.

 

[Racer88]

We know who marner is.

We also know who Matthews is.

Matthews is tied for 5th. all time goal scorers on the Leafs with George Armstrong, Steve Thomas and William Nylander for playoffs goals.

26 goals each.

Nylander for the most part has played with a top Center, Tavares in the playoffs.
Matthews for the most part has played with an all-star Right Winger, marner.

We hear complaints about Tavares speed and decline, but he did score 38 goals this year.
Matthews is frequently "not healthy", and that was the case again this year. Scoring 3 goals in 13 playoffs games, compared to Nylanders' 6.

Is it a stretch to suggest, both Nylander (leading scorer) and marner (2nd. leading scorer) might have accomplished more with better/healthier linemates?

Look a the chance assists marner generated ... highest there, but we can speculate they were chance assists to Matthews?

Nylander and Matthews chance assists are about the same, but one is a center one is a winger. One passes to an all-star linemate, the other passes to an older, previous all-star linemate.

So yes, marner has better linemates than Nylander, but one of them was once again, playing injured.

We should be more concerned about Matthews than marner or Nylander.

That Nylander is tied with Matthews in career playoffs goals, when Matthews is a 3 time Rocket winner indicates he isn't able to fight through heavier playoffs coverage. Keep in mind half the games are played at home, so the Leafs coach determines who Matthews starts against. We've seen in previous playoffs he can go cold for stretches, like Nylander did against the Panthers. But Nylander isn't a 3 time Rocket winner, expectations should be much higher for Matthews to finish off those chances created by marner, than Nylander on those chances created by Tavares.

Sure, marner may not excel in heavier coverage, but he's undersized and relies on guile, not strength, whereas 6'3", 217 lb. Matthews should be able to stand up to the coverage.

Bringing back marner would not be the end of the franchise, but perhaps there has to be a change with who he plays with once the real season begins?

Bringing Marner back might not be the end of the team but unless they can convince Matthews to move off his no trade bringing the core plus Reilly back will be the end of hope for any playoff success

 

[IPS]

Prediction:
Marner will be back, and by November we will see the same posts we've been reading for years about how Marner's supercrazyelite, and anyone who dares to bring up playoffs will be berated for disturbing people for talking about playoffs during the regular season. They will also be told that they don't understand hockey because they obviously can't appreciate the greatness that's right on front of them. You hate to see it, but I can see it coming.

Sheesh you just wanna see the world burn eh?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Sheesh you just wanna see the world burn eh?

Not at all, not even close but just because I don't want it to happen, that doesn't mean I can't see the danger.

 

[Aashir]

Prediction:
Marner will be back, and by November we will see the same posts we've been reading for years about how Marner's supercrazyelite, and anyone who dares to bring up playoffs will be berated for disturbing people for talking about playoffs during the regular season. They will also be told that they don't understand hockey because they obviously can't appreciate the greatness that's right in front of them. You hate to see it, but I can see it coming.

Idk about that

Marner doesn’t seem to wanna come back. Look at the response he gave to the question of coming back vs JT.

Marner said he hasn’t thought about it and he’s loved his time being a leaf. Doesn’t answer the question and sorta sidesteps it

JT is gushing over wanting to come back and talks about wanting to make it work with management

I think this is a Marner who’s realized his dream of being a leaf might not be what he wants anymore and is content with going elsewhere.

 

[IPS]

This was how it looked if you were watching the games too. Marner looked like a 3rd liner out there.

Those damn passengers making less than a million outperforming 13 million Marner!

Hey now he led the "Chance assists" right?! Lord knows that other column does not reflect well on anyone playing 30 feet from the net.

 

[arso40]

marner and Matthews did good if only we weren’t soo top heavy in salary

 

[ACC1224]

Idk about that

Marner doesn’t seem to wanna come back. Look at the response he gave to the question of coming back vs JT.

Marner said he hasn’t thought about it and he’s loved his time being a leaf. Doesn’t answer the question and sorta sidesteps it

JT is gushing over wanting to come back and talks about wanting to make it work with management

I think this is a Marner who’s realized his dream of being a leaf might not be what he wants anymore and is content with going elsewhere.

A lot can happen in 6 weeks. He may be more receptive to returning after things die down and he has some time for reflection.

 

[Gabriel426]

marner and Matthews did good if only we weren’t soo top heavy in salary

Or maybe we just should not let them play on PP. Since thats what dragging them and the Leafs down.

 

[arso40]

Or maybe we just should not let them play on PP. Since thats what dragging them and the Leafs down.

Loooool I’m not disagreeing

 

[Gabriel426]

A lot can happen in 6 weeks. He may be more receptive to returning after things die down and he has some time for reflection.

Seriously, will you still post on this board if MM leaves. Like beside posting how MM is doing after each game where he has more than 2pts?

MM coming back is really not good for himself and the Leafs.

Our top guys/Core 5 just can't win collectively. And it is not depth or goalie or defence. Those 5 just can't get it done together.

 

[Gabriel426]

Not at all, not even close but just because I don't want it to happen, that doesn't mean I can't see the danger.

When you think about it, thats really something that a 100pt player hometown kid signing back with Leafs is a danger thing.

I guess the rest of the league must love it. Like I would be too if I see a team continue to bet on 5 players where the whole World knows they can't get it done, esp if I hate that team, lol.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Idk about that

Marner doesn’t seem to wanna come back. Look at the response he gave to the question of coming back vs JT.

Marner said he hasn’t thought about it and he’s loved his time being a leaf. Doesn’t answer the question and sorta sidesteps it

JT is gushing over wanting to come back and talks about wanting to make it work with management

I think this is a Marner who’s realized his dream of being a leaf might not be what he wants anymore and is content with going elsewhere.

There's reasons to think he'll leave, and reasons to think he'll be back. Nobody can know for sure, but I think he'll be back.

 

[Gary Nylund]

When you think about it, thats really something that a 100pt player hometown kid signing back with Leafs is a danger thing.

I guess the rest of the league must love it. Like I would be too if I see a team continue to bet on 5 players where the whole World knows they can't get it done, esp if I hate that team, lol.

Yes it seems like millions of fans want the Leafs to fail, and they keep getting what they want too. It might even be more fun for them to watch our annul playoff failures then if we didn't even make the playoffs.

 

[Gabriel426]

Yes it seems like millions of fans want the Leafs to fail, and they keep getting what they want too. It might even be more fun for them to watch our annul playoff failures then if we didn't even make the playoffs.

It is more fun for them to see us make the playoffs force Game 7 and just gave up and get blown out.

Honestly, we would be laughing our heads off if this happens to the Habs or Sens even if the Leafs finished bottom five in the regular season.

 

[KAWAIlllI]

I don't think NHL coaches are brave.

They don't like growing pains, and half a dozen games isn't an investment in the future.

And the Patches-Nylander-Robertson line ... Patches wasn't exactly healthy this year, and Robertson is a part-time, one trick pony.

How about finding a couple top 6 forwards to experiment with Nylander, rather than Patches and Robertson?

There’s a bunch of cheap UFAs that the Leafs can plug in for the upcoming season: Granlund, Boeser, Ehlers (not super cheap) Mangiapane, Duchene, Roslovic, Appleton, Donato, Kylington, Connor Brown etc. Also - trade for others.

Not sure how much one should trust those Dany Heatley-tweets (why would he lie though..), but if one does, you should trade Matthews now (try at least - LA and Rangers would give up a ton) and don’t sign Tavares and Marner. If you don’t know what I’m speaking of, look it up, it’s very telling…

 

[Confucius]

We know who marner is.

We also know who Matthews is.

Matthews is tied for 5th. all time goal scorers on the Leafs with George Armstrong, Steve Thomas and William Nylander for playoffs goals.

26 goals each.

Nylander for the most part has played with a top Center, Tavares in the playoffs.
Matthews for the most part has played with an all-star Right Winger, marner.

We hear complaints about Tavares speed and decline, but he did score 38 goals this year.
Matthews is frequently "not healthy", and that was the case again this year. Scoring 3 goals in 13 playoffs games, compared to Nylanders' 6.

Is it a stretch to suggest, both Nylander (leading scorer) and marner (2nd. leading scorer) might have accomplished more with better/healthier linemates?

Look a the chance assists marner generated ... highest there, but we can speculate they were chance assists to Matthews?

Nylander and Matthews chance assists are about the same, but one is a center one is a winger. One passes to an all-star linemate, the other passes to an older, previous all-star linemate.

So yes, marner has better linemates than Nylander, but one of them was once again, playing injured.

We should be more concerned about Matthews than marner or Nylander.

That Nylander is tied with Matthews in career playoffs goals, when Matthews is a 3 time Rocket winner indicates he isn't able to fight through heavier playoffs coverage. Keep in mind half the games are played at home, so the Leafs coach determines who Matthews starts against. We've seen in previous playoffs he can go cold for stretches, like Nylander did against the Panthers. But Nylander isn't a 3 time Rocket winner, expectations should be much higher for Matthews to finish off those chances created by marner, than Nylander on those chances created by Tavares.

Sure, marner may not excel in heavier coverage, but he's undersized and relies on guile, not strength, whereas 6'3", 217 lb. Matthews should be able to stand up to the coverage.

Bringing back marner would not be the end of the franchise, but perhaps there has to be a change with who he plays with once the real season begins?

Some Say JT is a top centre, some say he,s a 3rd liner. lol,

 

[Gabriel426]

There’s a bunch of cheap UFAs that the Leafs can plug in for the upcoming season: Granlund, Boeser, Ehlers (not super cheap) Mangiapane, Duchene, Roslovic, Appleton, Donato, Kylington, Connor Brown etc. Also - trade for others.

Not sure how much one should trust those Dany Heatley-tweets (why would he lie though..), but if one does, you should trade Matthews now (try at least - LA and Rangers would give up a ton) and don’t sign Tavares and Marner. If you don’t know what I’m speaking of, look it up, it’s very telling…

AM to Rangers for the real JT plus picks would be amazing. Then trade Reilly for picks and Marchessualt from Preds. Add Bennett, Ekblad, Marchand and Brown from UFA and resign our own JT for 3C.

Team should be a lot tougher mentally.