Player Discussion Mitch Marner Part Infinity

[francis246]

Nikolaj Ehlers​

Nike Ehlers playoff stats:

45GP - 9 goals, 12 assists, 21 points. 5 of the 9 goals came this year. Not the greatest playoff performer and has a history of getting injured

 

[HofT]

When you take a tumor out, what do you replace it with?

You take it out, and suddenly realize it was the heart. There's actual alternatives leafs can do without getting rid of Matthews, Nylander, Marner

 

[Trapper]

This is way beyond blaming one guy.
The whole thing doesn’t work. Do you really think that say you replace Marner with a player like Pettersson/Ehlers (or some version of that type of skill) that Matthews/Nylander are going to become different players, leading differently, battling differently? Nope.

It’s gone on too long.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Does it matter if its 1-2 million more? It barely makes a difference to the cap next year — it doesn’t matter. People just want change and want him gone. I’m just saying that change is going to mean regression. I'm not sure how you replace such a pivotal player that gets you to the playoffs every year in this year's free agency.

The woes of the leafs was the cap never going up because of covid, the Leafs fundamentally lack depth. And if you don't want to blame covid - then blame the Tavares signing - the leafs are fundamentally a flawed structure team which is managements fault, not our core players.

IMHO 1-2 million always matters, but in Marner's case maybe it doesn't matter much because if you're paying him 11/12/13/14 (or god forbid the rumoured ask of 15.5), he's just not worth it at any of those numbers.

If you're happy with just making the playoffs, then sure, keeping Marner makes sense, that's not me though and I'm pretty sure it's not most fans. f*** compiling assists in November, help the team win in the playoffs. He's too much of a whiny baby to do that though, his meltdown last night I would think made that crystal clear for anyone who hadn't figured it out yet.

Do you really want this loser back? And are even willing to bend over again on contract negotiations because 1-2 million more doesn't matter? SMH.

 

[Gary Nylund]

This is way beyond blaming one guy.
The whole thing doesn’t work. Do you really think that say you replace Marner with a player like Pettersson/Ehlers (or some version of that type of skill) that Matthews/Nylander are going to become different players, leading differently, battling differently? Nope.

It’s gone on too long.

It's not so black and white. They came so close to beating a very strong Florida team, you think if we had Ranta instead of Marner we maybe win? Or let's say even Bennett and Marchand instead of Marner and Domi? Even a healthy Matthews might have been enough.

 

[NorthBayBattleOnion]

Trade Cowan and others and draft Porter Martone.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Toronto does seem to have a habit of kicking its star players out and then actually suck for a while. Looks like Leaf fans are going to get exactly what they want again.

f*** off with that cuck cheerleader bullshit.

 

[HofT]

The Leafs cost themselves Rantanen by handing out no trade clauses like candy.

Leafs had the opportunity to trade Marner when Dubas left. They decided to keep him. We should only be blaming management and in my opinion, I don't trust that our management will be able to replace Marner's pivotal role. They literally gave up a 1st for essentially another Kamp. They also were never able to create core depth players, our team has shuffled way too often where yea, we've had a lot of passengers

 

[Nineteen67]

You take it out, and suddenly realize it was the heart. There's actual alternatives leafs can do without getting rid of Matthews, Nylander, Marner

The problem is they take up too much ice time and cap money, and Marner and Matthews don’t have the speed to get to where they need to be in those hard to play games. Willy won’t do it, although he could.

It goes back to that Easter game 6 at home against Boston when it we first saw that maybe they didn’t have it. Now it’s beyond obvious that these three together can’t work.

 

[HofT]

f*** off with that cuck cheerleader bullshit.

When the leafs start to actually suck, I hope you still cheer for them.

 

[HofT]

The problem is they take up too much ice time and cap money, and Marner and Matthews don’t have the speed to get to where they need to be in those hard to play games. Willy won’t do it, although he could.

It goes back to that Easter game 6 at home against Boston when it we first saw that maybe they didn’t have it. Now it’s beyond obvious that these three together can’t work.

So, blow it up?

 

[Trapper]

It's not so black and white. They came so close to beating a very strong Florida team, you think if we had Ranta instead of Marner we maybe win? Or let's say even Bennett and Marchand instead of Marner and Domi? Even a healthy Matthews might have been enough.

Problem is you can say that about any of the core guys.
What if had Rantanen instead of Matthews?
JT Miller instead of Nylander?
I don’t believe there isn’t a member of this core that you couldn’t change with a different skilled kind of guy.

 

[Anthrax442]

You take it out, and suddenly realize it was the heart. There's actual alternatives leafs can do without getting rid of Matthews, Nylander, Marner

Marner has no heart, no brain and no courage. In the Land of Wizard of Oz, he is Toto.

 

[francis246]

The problem is they take up too much ice time and cap money, and Marner and Matthews don’t have the speed to get to where they need to be in those hard to play games. Willy won’t do it, although he could.

It goes back to that Easter game 6 at home against Boston when it we first saw that maybe they didn’t have it. Now it’s beyond obvious that these three together can’t work.

I think that’s why you have fans who are mad at management, Shanahan in particular. After Montreal in 2021 he had the opportunity to make a change. Hell after Tampa 2022 he could have made a change. After Florida in 2023 he had another opportunity. Now people are bitching that the Rantanen move got nixed. Why the hell would the organization wait to make that move when they have zero control over the situation? That is just bad asset management and honestly bad management skills in general. Shanahan to me shoulders all the blame here and should be fired. They gave the player the NMC, you can’t be mad at the player for using it afterwards.

 

[HofT]

Marner has no heart, no brain and no courage. In the Land of Wizard of Oz, he is Toto.

What era of the Leafs had heart to you? Like, looking at our history nothing is really impressive past 1967. Even in those eras where we supposedly had "heart" we didnt achieve anything special.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Problem is you can say that about any of the core guys.
What if had Rantanen instead of Matthews?
JT Miller instead of Nylander?
I don’t believe there isn’t a member of this core that you couldn’t change with a different skilled kind of guy.

I think it's pretty obvious Matthews was injured and Nylander was our best forward in the playoffs. The biggest playoff disappointments for me as Marner and JT. That's not just this season either, we see the same shit every year.

 

[Anthrax442]

What era of the Leafs had heart to you? Like, looking at our history nothing is really impressive past 1967. Even in those eras where we supposedly had "heart" we didnt achieve anything special.

i mean the Clark/ Gilmour are and Sundin/ Tucker/ Roberts teams were pure gumption

 

[Gary Nylund]

What era of the Leafs had heart to you? Like, looking at our history nothing is really impressive past 1967. Even in those eras where we supposedly had "heart" we didnt achieve anything special.

There were a number of teams with heart. Maybe they didn't achieve "anything special" but they didn't embarrass themselves either.

 

[francis246]

i mean the Clark/ Gilmour are and Sundin/ Tucker/ Roberts teams were pure gumption

They still f***ing lost. They didn’t win anything. You guys are still glorifying a bunch of losers because they checked hard. At the end of the day, they didn’t win. So to me it’s not different than this core. They didn’t get it done.

 

[Gary Nylund]

i mean the Clark/ Gilmour are and Sundin/ Tucker/ Roberts teams were pure gumption

Sittler/McDonald/Salming as well.

 

[ITM]

Him screaming at the bench was another sign of wrong place wrong time bad decision making.

Like Marner the disconnected Leafs fan emerged on ice through Marner the responsible player. Like an inversion if Banner/Hulk. Where the side of him that should be able to help, is blamed by the side of him that knows neither can. so blame and frustration is projected elsewhere.

Petulant and unprofessional.

Babcock had his number.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Who on free agency would you replace Marner with?

For production in games 5-7 of a playoff series?

Dunno, someone like Jeff Petry or Tanner Pearson.

 

[hoglund]

I think it's pretty obvious Matthews was injured and Nylander was our best forward in the playoffs. The biggest playoff disappointments for me as Marner and JT. That's not just this season either, we see the same shit every year.

I think that JT had a great year and playoffs until he got hit in a game in the 1st round (can't remember which one), but since then he's been ineffective.

 

[HofT]

i mean the Clark/ Gilmour are and Sundin/ Tucker/ Roberts teams were pure gumption

And they didn't really achieve anyting special. Nothing to brag about.

 

[Gary Nylund]

They still f***ing lost. They didn’t win anything. You guys are still glorifying a bunch of losers because they checked hard. At the end of the day, they didn’t win. So to me it’s not different than this core. They didn’t get it done.

You just don't get it. These teams aren't being "glorified", we're just pointing out that they didn't consistently underachieve. They played their hearts out, and sometimes even exceeded expectations in the playoffs. As a fan I can't ask for more than that, but I can certainly ask for more that what the current core has given us.