Player Discussion Mitch Marner Part Infinity

[francis246]

The franchise isn't entitled to anything. Contractually speaking (not on-the-ice speaking), Marker doesn't owe them anything. We got our 9 years out of him, probably the best 9 years anyone will get out of him. It's the natural order of things that teams that are in the playoff picture risk losing their players for "nothing" because they need all hands on deck for the cup push. There's no selling. And teams on the outside looking in, they get to improve their outlook for the future by not having a cup push to worry about, so they get some assets for their UFAs. For Treliving to have pulled off a Rantanen deal with an expiring asset like Marner would have been a massive coup. And extremely rare! But am I mad that he couldn't make it? No, of course not. You shoot for the moon, you usually miss.

The Isles were pissed to lose Tavares for "nothing" but what happened next? They just took that cap space, spent it, got a new coach and GM, and voila, they never missed a beat. In fact, they got even better. 103, 96, 104 points, and in just the 2020 and 2021 seasons won as many playoff games as JT has to date in his Leaf career. They were a game, and then a goal, away from two Stanley Cup Finals. Ultimately the way they were constructed had a poor shelf life but they had real success, the kind we dream of, and that was after we stole the only marquee player that team has had in 20 years. We have THREE right now and we're worried about losing one of them and having $11M in cap space? Gimme a break...

I used to be sign Marner at all costs. I’ve kind of accepted we’ll be okay if we don’t. (Im not gonna go full out and say we’ll be better because I truly don’t believe that, this division is too good and losing a 99-100 point guy is going to be tough to replace) I watched London vs Oshawa yesterday and earlier in the week. Let me tell yall something. Marner’s replacement is Easton Cowan.

He might not get 90 points every year but he’s really talented. Sees the ice extremely well like Marner and can make the same plays, but he forechecks hard, he’s first on pucks all the damn time. My only saving grace for letting Marner walk is I think we have a more physical version of Marner who will be available to the team this coming year.

I also don’t want the leafs to spend all the savings this summer. Leave some cap space to be able to pull off a trade if need be and look at next years UFA crop when we have another set of players expiring.

I’d grab a 3C and a top 6 winger, preferably Boeser

 

[Racer88]

Not the same, Tavares lied to the org and told him he’s staying! So they didn’t explore trading him.

Marner hasn’t done anything like that.

Did Tavares have a no trade contract as well as Marners

 

[Racer88]

I used to be sign Marner at all costs. I’ve kind of accepted we’ll be okay if we don’t. (Im not gonna go full out and say we’ll be better because I truly don’t believe that, this division is too good and losing a 99-100 point guy is going to be tough to replace) I watched London vs Oshawa yesterday and earlier in the week. Let me tell yall something. Marner’s replacement is Easton Cowan.

He might not get 90 points every year but he’s really talented. Sees the ice extremely well like Marner and can make the same plays, but he forechecks hard, he’s first on pucks all the damn time. My only saving grace for letting Marner walk is I think we have a more physical version of Marner who will be available to the team this coming year.

I also don’t want the leafs to spend all the savings this summer. Leave some cap space to be able to pull off a trade if need be and look at next years UFA crop when we have another set of players expiring.

I’d grab a 3C and a top 6 winger, preferably Boeser

This 100%

 

[ruaware41]

Yes, 6.9 is so much worse than 10.9 or 11 or 11.6.

We've heard a lot about Mitch's parent getting involved, but not much about Willy's (other than a few posters complaining that he's like his father, always switching teams because he's only interested in looking for a better paycheque).

comeon, I know we all have our favourites, and Nylander is mine too, but you don't need to do this. There's a few of you Nylander fans who come across like you border line worship the guy and won't accept any criticism. Not saying you're an example of that but you're better than that. You know damn well at that time, for that cap, for that precedent, he was asking for more than he was worth, even if very quickly became a bargain because of his continued elevated play, the cap rising, and the precedent changing. We don't need to dig up old history for something we both know is true. He was asking for Pastrnak money while having lower production than him very clearly and sat out all year because of 900k. Nylander won't pay your bills man, it's okay to criticize his behaviour too sometimes.

P.s. take it for what it's worth but according to AI, sportsnet reported Michael Nylander was involved as part of Willy's representation and was a "key factor in the prolonged negotiations." Ultimately, I do also realize for both Mitch and Willy we don't really know what their involvement was/is because we are not told all the details but there was plenty of discussion about Michael Nylander on here as well when it came to Willy's contract holdout.

 

[francis246]

Did Tavares have a no trade contract as well as Marners

Tavares has a limited no trade. The islanders could have moved him, but he asked the islanders not to trade him and also made that request publicly to the media.

 

[IPS]

I suppose you could spin it that way.

Where's the spin? It's 100% unfiltered truth.

 

[IPS]

Wanting to remain a Leaf but looking to escape the toxicity thrown his way is the conflict. I’m guessing the waiting it out is in hope the narrative would change.
Funny that the ones making it toxic and forcing him out will be the ones that will be pissed at him if he leaves.

I still believe he stays.

Imagine saying for all those years that the Marner haters are just a small group of people online who nobody even knows exists or pays attention to but all of a sudden now thinking they have a big enough voice to directly drive him out of Toronto.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Way too early to be talking about how much he should get. If he doesn’t help them in a big way to win this series then they should make him a lower offer, maybe 9 mill or let him walk.
If they lose this series we absolutely cannot walk this same core 5 back for another number of years. It almost been a decade with this failure and something has to change

It's honestly weird to see so much talk about this now. Maybe he wins the Conn Smythe, maybe he flames out, why not just wait a bit. Considering how much worse he's been in the playoffs vs regular season over his career, every playoff game counts and we still have at least 2 more to play. GLG!!

 

[Gary Nylund]

Well hopefully we can squeak into the playoffs without him even if we become a team more built for the playoffs without him. Like him or not he's been an instrumental part of the Leafs regular season success

Any team with a legit shot at the cup should make the playoff without too much trouble.

 

[ruaware41]

Any team with a legit shot at the cup should make the playoff without too much trouble.

unfortunately hockey isn't always about should. The Kings won the cup after barely making it in one year. The blues who squeaked in nearly eliminated the presidents trophy winning Winnipeg Jets. If the Kings team had a Marner caliber player replacing the cap of some of the other guys they had they probably make the playoffs more easily and probably get eliminated as well

 

[arso40]

I used to be sign Marner at all costs. I’ve kind of accepted we’ll be okay if we don’t. (Im not gonna go full out and say we’ll be better because I truly don’t believe that, this division is too good and losing a 99-100 point guy is going to be tough to replace) I watched London vs Oshawa yesterday and earlier in the week. Let me tell yall something. Marner’s replacement is Easton Cowan.

He might not get 90 points every year but he’s really talented. Sees the ice extremely well like Marner and can make the same plays, but he forechecks hard, he’s first on pucks all the damn time. My only saving grace for letting Marner walk is I think we have a more physical version of Marner who will be available to the team this coming year.

I also don’t want the leafs to spend all the savings this summer. Leave some cap space to be able to pull off a trade if need be and look at next years UFA crop when we have another set of players expiring.

I’d grab a 3C and a top 6 winger, preferably Boeser

Now you see it he may never reach marners skill level or iq but he’ll probably be a better playoff version of marner he will drop the gloves mix it up I love the kid but your right we won’t be better losing marner right away still got to make the right moves with his cap hit

 

[Tak7]

I don't. If we lose we need to move on. The last Gm was incompetent and so is the guy who hired him.They have done everything to prop these guys up and they just aren't playoff performers. Once we lose they clean house.

Time for this sort of discussion is the off-season, but I just don't understand this line of thought.

They aren't a better team if they lose Marner, and this summer's free agency pool is really, really thin.

Are you a better team with Marner out, but Ryan Donato and Gustav Nyqvist in? Jonathan Druin? Nik Ehlers?

That doesn't sound like you're coming out ahead.

 

[Tak7]

I think it's a few things because he looked like he was crapping himself in game 4.

I think he ate humble pie. I think he knows his numbers aren't stacking up with Rantanen and I think he knows it's probably going to be over here after this.

Makes sense don't ya think

I said a few months ago that it was entirely possible that his newfound calmness and composure was because he had already decided he was leaving, or at the very least testing free agency.

I've long been of the opinion that he's not coming back.

 

[Gary Nylund]

unfortunately hockey isn't always about should. The Kings won the cup after barely making it in one year. The blues who squeaked in nearly eliminated the presidents trophy winning Winnipeg Jets. If the Kings team had a Marner caliber player replacing the cap of some of the other guys they had they probably make the playoffs more easily and probably get eliminated as well

What's your point?

 

[Suntouchable13]

Time for this sort of discussion is the off-season, but I just don't understand this line of thought.

They aren't a better team if they lose Marner, and this summer's free agency pool is really, really thin.

Are you a better team with Marner out, but Ryan Donato and Gustav Nyqvist in? Jonathan Druin? Nik Ehlers?

That doesn't sound like you're coming out ahead.

How do you hand him more money than Rantanen if he doesn't step up here in the next couple of games? If we lose this series and Marner doesn't do much, how can you hand him 13-14 million per season? He has no accountability. He thinks he is playing "fine". You never hear him "I need to be better" his shit don't stick according to him.

 

[arso40]

comeon, I know we all have our favourites, and Nylander is mine too, but you don't need to do this. There's a few of you Nylander fans who come across like you border line worship the guy and won't accept any criticism. Not saying you're an example of that but you're better than that. You know damn well at that time, for that cap, for that precedent, he was asking for more than he was worth, even if very quickly became a bargain because of his continued elevated play, the cap rising, and the precedent changing. We don't need to dig up old history for something we both know is true. He was asking for Pastrnak money while having lower production than him very clearly and sat out all year because of 900k. Nylander won't pay your bills man, it's okay to criticize his behaviour too sometimes.

P.s. take it for what it's worth but according to AI, sportsnet reported Michael Nylander was involved as part of Willy's representation and was a "key factor in the prolonged negotiations." Ultimately, I do also realize for both Mitch and Willy we don't really know what their involvement was/is because we are not told all the details but there was plenty of discussion about Michael Nylander on here as well when it came to Willy's contract holdout.

Pretty sure his dad was involved the first go around and I’ve yet to see someone who’s viewed as a nylander fan act anywhere close to a die hard Mitch fan that’s Ludacris nylander sitting out for pasta money a year later changes his actual percentage of the cap doesn’t it I’m pretty sure he got forsberg money or something regardless sitting out cost him from a performance stand point but the jump from his salary to everyone else’s was crazy

 

[Tak7]

How do you hand him more money than Rantanen if he doesn't step up here in the next couple of games?

Yeah, that becomes harder and harder to justify with each passing playoff game.

I really thought he was going to break through in these playoffs. Really disappointed that we haven't seen a narrative-busting version of Mitch.

There's still time, I suppose..

 

[arso40]

Time for this sort of discussion is the off-season, but I just don't understand this line of thought.

They aren't a better team if they lose Marner, and this summer's free agency pool is really, really thin.

Are you a better team with Marner out, but Ryan Donato and Gustav Nyqvist in? Jonathan Druin? Nik Ehlers?

That doesn't sound like you're coming out ahead.

Cause the target would be a top 6 right winger boeser or toffoli that type player

 

[Tak7]

Cause the target would be a top 6 right winger boeser or toffoli that type player

The same targets about 20 teams in the league will have - the overpays will be insane.

 

[KAWAIlllI]

Predicting a great game for Marner tonight - 2 goals, 5 shots on goal, 4 hits and 1 assist

 

[darrylsittler27]

Could be but Teams don’t typically let players of this stature walk, unless you can think of an example?
Teams retool every year they’ll find another approach.

You don't have examples? Steve Sullivan, Hyman, Sundin. You could have an entire regime change if we lose tonight. It's now or never for these guys. Biggest game yet. Way bigger than TB. Lose tonight, it's over.

 

[darrylsittler27]

Time for this sort of discussion is the off-season, but I just don't understand this line of thought.

They aren't a better team if they lose Marner, and this summer's free agency pool is really, really thin.

Are you a better team with Marner out, but Ryan Donato and Gustav Nyqvist in? Jonathan Druin? Nik Ehlers?

That doesn't sound like you're coming out ahead.

That isn't the question? It's how much will they be able to given Mathews can't produce his contract at 14M? I will bet the Leafs don't want give him 8 times $14M and nmc then handcuff themselves like the Reilly deal.

 

[darrylsittler27]

That isn't the question? It's how much will they be able to given Mathews can't produce his contract at 14M? I will bet the Leafs don't want to give him 8 times 14M and nmc then handcuff themselves like the Reilly deal.Even Mathews took a 4 year deal.

 

[darrylsittler27]

I used to be sign Marner at all costs. I’ve kind of accepted we’ll be okay if we don’t. (Im not gonna go full out and say we’ll be better because I truly don’t believe that, this division is too good and losing a 99-100 point guy is going to be tough to replace) I watched London vs Oshawa yesterday and earlier in the week. Let me tell yall something. Marner’s replacement is Easton Cowan.

He might not get 90 points every year but he’s really talented. Sees the ice extremely well like Marner and can make the same plays, but he forechecks hard, he’s first on pucks all the damn time. My only saving grace for letting Marner walk is I think we have a more physical version of Marner who will be available to the team this coming year.

I also don’t want the leafs to spend all the savings this summer. Leave some cap space to be able to pull off a trade if need be and look at next years UFA crop when we have another set of players expiring.

I’d grab a 3C and a top 6 winger, preferably Boeser

It's our reality if they lose a new regime may make Marner take that $14m offer elsewhere. The entire focus could shift tonight.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Way too early to be talking about how much he should get. If he doesn’t help them in a big way to win this series then they should make him a lower offer, maybe 9 mill or let him walk.
If they lose this series we absolutely cannot walk this same core 5 back for another number of years. It almost been a decade with this failure and something has to change

Why?