Player Discussion Mitch Marner Part Infinity

[ITM]

Just to make you feel better . If Rienhart andTkachuk played for the Leafs instead of Marner and Matthews. the Leafs would still lose in the 1st Round. And the Panthers would still win their Cups and be an even better team

I’m not sure a comment and an avatar have ever been more perfectly paired.

 

[Craig Button]

I’m not sure a comment and an avatar have ever been more perfectly paired.

That was my point of the avatar and username

 

[Hellcat]

Fair point, you’d only have like 2 or 3 times more than 99% of people’s annual pre-tax and expense salary left over

<1% of the population ever gets to play in the NHL so it makes sense that they would make more than 99% of the population.

A 775k contract after taxes, escrow, agent fees, mortgage/rent, misc expenses, etc. if you are super disciplined, it might leave you $100k per year. Very few players even get 5 years at league min, if you were one of the lucky ones, you'd pack that $100k away for retirement, $100k x 5 years = $500k and that's dogshit for retirement savings ... you'd have no money left for that Range Roger

 

[Da Mash]

Because it's not something we see in hockey typically - especially in the hard cap era.

There's always been this clear acceptance and understanding that in order to win, you need to leave money on the table so that the rest of the roster can be bolstered.

It's absolutely a character flaw if the end goal is to win - you can't win with guys who put themselves first, in what is effectively the ultimately team sport.

That has always been the case, but it's been especially reaffirmed over the past few years when you see Florida's group of selfless players fully committing to playing for each other, as a team and a family, over themselves.

Circling this back to Marner - him taking a 2-3 year deal will absolutely be about him wanting to maximize his career earnings in the same way that Matthews has; if you compare that to the Reinharts on teams that actually win? You begin to realize just how far away some of these guys are from truly being winners.

We dont see it typically. Most cases we have no idea what their take home pay is. Most players in their prime take what they can get. The NFL has a kinda hard cap and no guarantee contracts unless its mostly signing bonuses or gaurateed money as the contracts are not guranteed. They have a loop hole to push money ahead with fake years added to contracts or extensions added. etc but most of the elite players in the game take what they can get. Look at Dak Prescott. He represented the QB's in the league and didnt take a home discount years ago.

The managing of the cap and team building isnt the players responsibility. Its the management of the team and its owners. If they continue to hand out full NMC's to players then that's on them to deal with and not the players.

GM's could easily play hard ball and make them sit. Especially when they are RFA. The player then have no leverage but again you dont see alot of GM's in the league do this. Dont blame the player here.

Its not often a team like the leafs have 3 elite players all in their prime and all looking at new contracts in such a small window. Would of it been better to trade one? So we dont get in this mess? Sure was but again that is management not the players fault.

In the end Marner camp will look to make as much as they can. And if there is a disount like what Tavares gave us when SJ offered more money it wont be alot.

We had no idea or didnt care who got paid years ago. We had no idea what Gilly made or Clark etc and if we did we didnt care and rightfully so. They never worried about management and how money was foolishly spent etc back in those days. They didnt want to win more than players nowadays IMHO.

Its just a different world now building a team in the NHL. We are stuck because we dont have alot of resources. Alot of talent waiting to step in. We are getting older and slower. Tre has thrown money away also on players who offered nothing. It adds up. Dubas did it too......so do alot of GM's in the league.

Look at the mess Lou leaves in this cap era.

JMHO tho

 

[Confucius]

The managing of the cap and team building isnt the players responsibility.

We had no idea or didnt care who got paid years ago. We had no idea what Gilly made or Clark etc and if we did we didnt care and rightfully so. They never worried about management and how money was foolishly spent etc back in those days. They didnt want to win more than players nowadays IMHO.

Its just a different world now building a team in the NHL. We are stuck because we dont have alot of resources. Alot of talent waiting to step in. We are getting older and slower. Tre has thrown money away also on players who offered nothing. It adds up. Dubas did it too......so do alot of GM's in the league.



JMHO tho

If there was no cap, I wouldn’t care what any player made either. The more the better, I’d rather see the players get the cash than some multi billion dollar company.

True it’s not the player’s responsibility to manage the Cap. When tough decisions get made neither side should take it personally. The situation is what it is

 

[Tak7]

We dont see it typically. Most cases we have no idea what their take home pay is. Most players in their prime take what they can get. The NFL has a kinda hard cap and no guarantee contracts unless its mostly signing bonuses or gaurateed money as the contracts are not guranteed. They have a loop hole to push money ahead with fake years added to contracts or extensions added. etc but most of the elite players in the game take what they can get. Look at Dak Prescott. He represented the QB's in the league and didnt take a home discount years ago.

The managing of the cap and team building isnt the players responsibility. Its the management of the team and its owners. If they continue to hand out full NMC's to players then that's on them to deal with and not the players.

GM's could easily play hard ball and make them sit. Especially when they are RFA. The player then have no leverage but again you dont see alot of GM's in the league do this. Dont blame the player here.

Its not often a team like the leafs have 3 elite players all in their prime and all looking at new contracts in such a small window. Would of it been better to trade one? So we dont get in this mess? Sure was but again that is management not the players fault.

In the end Marner camp will look to make as much as they can. And if there is a disount like what Tavares gave us when SJ offered more money it wont be alot.

We had no idea or didnt care who got paid years ago. We had no idea what Gilly made or Clark etc and if we did we didnt care and rightfully so. They never worried about management and how money was foolishly spent etc back in those days. They didnt want to win more than players nowadays IMHO.

Its just a different world now building a team in the NHL. We are stuck because we dont have alot of resources. Alot of talent waiting to step in. We are getting older and slower. Tre has thrown money away also on players who offered nothing. It adds up. Dubas did it too......so do alot of GM's in the league.

Look at the mess Lou leaves in this cap era.

JMHO tho

Players who want to win, pretty consistently leave money on the table in order to help team build.

The cap has been around for a long time. We are finally leaving a flat cap era, There's multiple examples of guys taking less to help with the roster.

You don't really see that in other sports, primarily because other sports don't have a flat cap, and hockey has a team-first culture.

 

[Tak7]

1. Sam Reinhart took 10 years to become a star player.

All the more reason for him to hit the open market and make FAR MORE than what he now makes in Florida, even with the tax situation.

 

[Tak7]

Short-term contracts benefit the players to maximize earnings. While long-term contracts benefit the team particularly in the later years as the cap continues to rise.

Just take Marner vs a pair of Panthers Tkachuk and Reinhart.

Mitch currently making $10.9 mil while Tkachuk signed 8 years @ $9.5 mil and Reinhart @ 8 years @ $8.63 mil.. Now while Marner's contract expires both Panthers have used 3 years and still have 5 years remaining at current rates.

View attachment 1054034

No compare that to playoff contribution with Florida going to 3 straight finals and 2 Cups.

View attachment 1054038

How could the Leafs compete with the greed of the Leafs players?

Florida still gets 5 more years of Tkachuk at $9.5 mil and Reinhart @ $8.63 mil. Even with the Leafs letting Marner go Leafs still have Matthews @ $13.25 and Willy at $ 11.50 mil

Leafs are screwed trying to compete with teams where good players locked in long-term.

Cap goes up. Long term player cap hits take up less percentage of the cap. More space for guys to be added to roster and get better.

Meanwhile in Toronto, everyone wants to maximize their earnings on short term deals, so a percentage of the cap has to always be allocated to the same bodies.

The organization literally gave the captaincy to a guy who signed a 4-year deal JUST so he could position himself to potentially be the highest paid player, ever.

Short answer: you can't compete with that. This team can't win a cup with these guys. It won't .

 

[MCR74]

Short answer: you can't compete with that. This team can't win a cup with these guys. It won't .

They've reached the second round twice. Safe to say that's the ceiling for this group.

 

[Tak7]

They've reached the second round twice. Safe to say that's the ceiling for this group.

Yep.

I'm talking more big picture, with this group though - there's no path forward where they all of a sudden become cup contenders.

Marner isn't the only one who prioritized himself over the team. That culture just seeped it's way into the group, and it's infested the bunch. At least Nylander had the presence of mind to sign a max term deal.

 

[Gaberd2608]

Cap goes up. Long term player cap hits take up less percentage of the cap. More space for guys to be added to roster and get better.

Meanwhile in Toronto, everyone wants to maximize their earnings on short term deals, so a percentage of the cap has to always be allocated to the same bodies.

The organization literally gave the captaincy to a guy who signed a 4-year deal JUST so he could position himself to potentially be the highest paid player, ever.

Short answer: you can't compete with that. This team can't win a cup with these guys. It won't .

Leafs management needs to act like winning is important more than making money for the suites. If you are committing to a core 4, the expectation is that they should be committing to the team, meaning 7-8 year contracts. If they are not interested trades should be explored. It is a little late but I assume Matthews will walk/ not be extended when his current contract is up and Nylander when his is up as well. At that point the Leafs will be no further to winning a cup.

 

[Tak7]

Leafs management needs to act like winning is important more than making money for the suites. If you are committing to a core 4, the expectation is that they should be committing to the team, meaning 7-8 year contracts. If they are not interested trades should be explored. It is a little late but I assume Matthews will walk/ not be extended when his current contract is up and Nylander when his is up as well. At that point the Leafs will be no further to winning a cup.

Unpopular opinion (obviously), but I genuinely think they are operating like winning is important.

The issue is they don't have a bloody clue how.

They spend to the cap every year.
They spend big money on their staff.
They spend big money on their amenities.
They spend big money on all sorts of services and tools for the players.

They're trying to win, they just don't have any sort of plan or idea on how. When you run your hockey operation in a season-by-season basis, this is what you end up with.

On the Matthews thing - would it surprise anyone if Marner signed a 2 year contract, and then both Matthews and Marner hit UFA again in 2027? Potentially even reuniting on the same team?

 

[HamiltonNHL]

would it surprise anyone if Marner signed a 2 year extension

Yes, I would call for Tre's departure immediately.
So would the media.

Marner has to go.
Even if Matthews is the problem.

That's sports baby.

Marner will do well drawing in crowds for Nowhereville, USA.

He's a great player, who's game doesnt translate into the post season.

like Matthews.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Reilly gets a pass? Been here longer and has won what?
Why doesn’t he waive his full NMC? Has regressed and how many assets did we waste to hid his warts?

The guy is like Teflon around here

He gets some criticism and some abuse. Probably deserves more criticism (nobody deserves abuse) than he gets, but I think his saving grace is that he's not one of the "4 forwards getting half the cap", so he often gets overlooked rather than "gets a pass".

 

[Hart Nation]

I still think Healthy Matty and Mitchy going into the playoffs we win the Florida Series. We haven't had the duo healthy in a long time post-season.

 

[Antropovsky]

Dude you are all over the board? Marner who is a bum because he does not show up when it matters in the playoffs, but McDavid who also does not show up when it matters in the playoffs is a gem because he wins individual trophies but no championship trophies? Dude if you are going to continue to be pointless, at least don't contradict yourself in your posts.

Wait are you really saying Mcdavid and Marners playoff productions are similar?

A couple seasons ago, you Marner fans were comparing Marner to Gretzky and now comparing him to Mcdavid whose second to Gretzky in playoff production?

LOL!

And @ACC1224 like it... not surprised!!

The Marner fans are as delusional as Marner is.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

I am not entirely burned because MM wants a lot of money. I am burned because he has been paid 10.9M for 6 years and still feels undervalued somehow.

He jumped to the highest paid winger in the NHL off an ELC, didn't take max term, and his camp is upset and has turned on the fans? Get out of here dude. What level of appreciation is required? Because fans were roaring after Max Domi's game 7 goal when we were down 3-1. We are fiercely loyal to the team that you're apart of. Sod off to an expansion team if you want max dollar and to have nobody care about hockey there.

 

[Antropovsky]

Dude you are all over the board? Marner who is a bum because he does not show up when it matters in the playoffs, but McDavid who also does not show up when it matters in the playoffs is a gem because he wins individual trophies but no championship trophies? Dude if you are going to continue to be pointless, at least don't contradict yourself in your posts.

Wait are you really saying Mcdavid and Marners playoff productions are similar?

You Marner supporters are absolutely crazy.

A couple seasons ago, comparing him to Gretzky and now comparing him to Mcdavid whose second to Gretzky in playoff production.

LOL!

And @ACC1224 like it... not surprised!!

The Marner fans are as delusional. Hopefully you all take a hike with Marner.

 

[Antropovsky]

Dude you are all over the board? Marner who is a bum because he does not show up when it matters in the playoffs, but McDavid who also does not show up when it matters in the playoffs is a gem because he wins individual trophies but no championship trophies? Dude if you are going to continue to be pointless, at least don't contradict yourself in your posts.

Wait are you really saying Mcdavid and Marners playoff productions are similar?

You Marner supporters are absolutely crazy.

A couple seasons ago, comparing him to Gretzky and now comparing him to Mcdavid whose second to Gretzky in playoff production.

View attachment 1054107

LOL!

And @ACC1224 like it... not surprised!!

The Marner fans are as delusional as "the Marner camp" is!

 

[notDatsyuk]

Please, please, let some team pay Marner $15M.

Preferably Florida so they won't threepeat.

 

[notDatsyuk]

In hindsight, 3 years would have been better for the Leafs. They could have started retooling 3 years ago, instead we had to watch him melt in the playoffs for 3 extra years.

Dubas would have still been here at that time, so today we'd be looking at 5 more years of watching him melt in the playoffs, but at $15M.

 

[Racer88]

Why would it matter to Marner at all to "justify" him leaving to the fans . He's doing what players do every year , going to free agency . He owe's no explaination to anyone and wouldn't benefit fron any of these statements at all . If anything saying he was disrespected blah, blah will have a negative effect on any potential suitors . If he's leaving it really doesn't matter what Leafs fans think .
Who needs to do full damage control to smooth over the situation of losing one of your best players for nothing is the Leafs . I'm thinking they're behind all the rumors myself .

He is hedging his bet. He is hoping another team will make him a big offer then he will run back to the Leafs hoping they will match it. He probably wants to stay a leaf

 

[notDatsyuk]

Why would it matter to Marner at all to "justify" him leaving to the fans . He's doing what players do every year , going to free agency . He owe's no explaination to anyone and wouldn't benefit fron any of these statements at all . If anything saying he was disrespected blah, blah will have a negative effect on any potential suitors . If he's leaving it really doesn't matter what Leafs fans think .
Who needs to do full damage control to smooth over the situation of losing one of your best players for nothing is the Leafs . I'm thinking they're behind all the rumors myself .

It sounds more like the actions of a petulant child than that of a team finally ridding itself of one of its worst contracts.

 

[Racer88]

He's 18th among active forwards for PPG, ahead of playoff warriors like Barkov, Tkachuk, and Bennett.

Who would you rather have in the playoffs. Marner ,Tkachuk or Bennet?

 

[Nineteen67]

We don't need Karlsson f*cking up our D. He's finished. Kyle wanted him, he can keep him.

He can play a little and if he yielded a couple of high picks, it’d be worth it.