Player Discussion Mitch Marner Part Infinity

[leafsafc]

Marner averages 27 goals per 82 games. What's the average goal scoring rate in the NHL?

Sorry, I'm evaluating based on playoff performances still.. I'll be ready to have a conversation about regular season scoring in November.

Marner doesn't finish his plays in the playoffs and we desperately need our top line to have 3 shooters.

 

[Caesium]

Sorry, I'm evaluating based on playoff performances still.. I'll be ready to have a conversation about regular season scoring in November.

Marner doesn't finish his plays in the playoffs and we desperately need our top line to have 3 shooters.

Sure, I just hope you apply your playoff performance criteria evenly across all of our players. All of them have not been good in the playoffs. I look forward to seeing you lay hate on Nylander and Matthews over in their threads.

The playoff performance comparison is hilarious to me. People keep posting how much of a drop off in playoffs points that the Leafs have, and Marner gets lit up because he has the biggest drop. Marner's point production drops to what Nylander's is. One is viewed as a playoff performer, and one is viewed as literal dog shit.

 

[Stephen]

Marner averages 27 goals per 82 games. What's the average goal scoring rate in the NHL?

You shouldn’t be saying 27 goal scorer all that proudly for a guy reportedly looking at Draisaitl money. And you’re falling back on regular season.

Come playoffs he averages 15 goals over 82.

 

[MCR74]

Saw this summaty on reddit:

"Marner feels like he has taken too much of blame for the teams lack of success"

Marner, you fought tooth and nail for an 11 million dollar contract you didnt live up too! You have no major trophies and Team Canada picked Marchand, Reinhart and Point over you!

Dude take a hint that you arent as good as you think you are!

Marner doesnt get it... fans and former NHL player see him avoiding physical areas with their own eyes! They see the spinorama no look back hand pass - that leads to the critical goal against.

They see that he has just 7 assists in 20 game 5-6-7's, the lowest of the core 4 and substantially lower than Nylander and Matthews.

Rick Vaive, former leaf captain said he looks like a figure skater trying to avoid contact!

GTFO....

View attachment 1052076

More money = more responsibility. This wasn't explained to him by his agent?

 

[Drytoast]

Nylander was talking to Matthews.

Man you guys are so weird

Nylander was bitching at both of them.



He was clearly looking at the back of Marner's head "Just f***in shoot it, stop f***in cryin bro"

Then it cuts to Matthews chirping him back to which Nylander responds "this is the f***ing issue you GUYS bitchin about shit"

And Marner with his "what do you want from me?" posture and feigned confusion as he looks to Matthews for support is kinda telling as to who he is when challenged.

I think Matthews and Marner have fed off of each other this enclosed bubble of protection, thinking their shit don't stink. Never really being challenged. Hopefully once you separate them, Matthews will finally 'man up' and compete and the locker room dynamic will change as he will be pressured into being a leader by example and not by name alone.

Or...he floats for the last 3 years of his contract and bails to a no state tax team having broken most of Toronto's scoring records and solidifying his place in history here...moving on to try and win a cup elsewhere, where somebody else is "the man"

 

[Caesium]

You shouldn’t be saying 27 goal scorer all that proudly for a guy reportedly looking at Draisaitl money. And you’re falling back on regular season.

Come playoffs he averages 15 goals over 82.

Where was the pride in my post? You people are f***ing delulu.

 

[leafsafc]

Sure, I just hope you apply your playoff performance criteria evenly across all of our players. All of them have not been good in the playoffs. I look forward to seeing you lay hate on Nylander and Matthews over in their threads.

The playoff performance comparison is hilarious to me. People keep posting how much of a drop off in playoffs points that the Leafs have, and Marner gets lit up because he has the biggest drop. Marner's point production drops to what Nylander's is. One is viewed as a playoff performer, and one is viewed as literal dog shit.

I think if you go back to my first comment you quoted, I was describing a very different problem than that of Nylander or Matthews. Willy and Matthews shoot, shoot, and shoot some more. They're not afraid to take a 2 on 1, fire a one-timer on a 5 on 3, or more generally (once again), shoot.

Marner is very different. He brings a unique skill for sure, but I don't think our team is looking for more passes. For me, I am willing to live with Willy & Matthews because I know that when we're down 2 goals, they're the ones who can score. Marner will be collecting the secondary assist on a weak high wrister that he hopes gets tipped and passed across the slot for a goal.

He's a super fun player and I really enjoyed watching him over his career, but the league is changing back to what it was in the early 2010s.. There's no more space and if you don't shoot all playoffs long, you're going home early.

 

[Antropovsky]

You can see the argument that the Leafs are the second best team
Could run it back give the man Marner what he wants lets do this

That logic doesnt make sense.... Just because they lost in 7 doesnt mean Leafs beat Carolina, Tampa, Washington etc etc.

 

[Hellcat]

Marner averages 27 goals per 82 games. What's the average goal scoring rate in the NHL?

There were about 900 - 950 skaters who played at least one game about 3,950 goals scored. Averages around 4 to 4.5 goals per player. Rough math.

 

[Madap]

Marner averages 27 goals per 82 games. What's the average goal scoring rate in the NHL?

What’s the average goal scoring rate for forwards who make 11m+? Sure as hell much higher than Marner.

 

[Stringer Bell]

Marner averages 27 goals per 82 games. What's the average goal scoring rate in the NHL?

What's he averaging in the playoffs?

 

[Drytoast]

8m FLA bucks is like 10m TOR bucks anyways.

The fix will be when Canada and the USA becomes one. It looks like that will happen btw. Canada is being run into the ground economically.

There will be no cup in Canada until Canada fixes it's bullshit over taxation. And if we don't want to do that, then enjoy the reality that you will always be against the odds since you get to keep almost 2M more in a 10M contract in a no state tax market in America.

Reality. Money talks. It's a bitch and has zero f***s about your virtue or emotions.

 

[Stephen]

Where was the pride in my post? You people are f***ing delulu.

When you’re trying to frame 27 goals over 82 goals vs league average as a demonstration of Marner’s goal scoring abilities, its massively disingenuous.

First of all, 27 goals over 82 games would put Marner 57th in league goal scoring this season.

Secondly, he’s the 12th highest paid player in the game on an expiring 6 year old contract and looking for a top 3 AAV. Surely, you see the gap in dollars paid vs goals.

 

[Caesium]

What’s the average goal scoring rate for forwards who make 11m+? Sure as hell much higher than Marner.

That's not what the poster said. The poster was saying Marner is below average in the NHL at scoring goals.

But if you want to talk about dollar value, Marner was the 12th highest cap hit last season, and of the players making more than him, he had the 2nd best $/P value.

 

[bodechek]

First off, I'm not a big fan of Marner, but he is skilled and has a good hockey IQ, but when it come to crunch time he tends to shy away from the physicality of the game. The way I look at this is Marner is being criticized for his contract demands and not coming away with anything. People will say Matthews gets off scott free, however, Matthews was a Calder trophy winner, a Rocket Richard trophy winner and was in the conversation for the Hart at one time. Although these are individual awards, they are accomplishments only a few have done, Marner cannot claim any of that. For him and his camp to come out and want $14 Million plus and be on a contending team, if I was Leaf management I would let him walk. Giving the core four most of the salary cap has not worked in 9 years!!!! You need the money to go to other players that will support the top two lines. More depth means a better chance on finally breaking through to the Stanley Cup finals and hopefully finally winning the elusive Stanley Cup

 

[notdoneyet]

Yup. Any narrative that says Marner is this awesome playoff performer is simply silly.
They are at least 8 players on Florida’s team that are better playoff performers then Marner.

Wouldn’t you agree the same applies to Matthew’s.
Marner is a passer Matthew’s is this elite generational goal scorer who disappears in the playoffs. You would think a player with all the accolades that Matthews has would at least be able to score in the playoffs.

We better hope Matthews is healthy next year because we won’t have that regular season marner to help us to the playoffs

 

[Madap]

That's not what the poster said. The poster was saying Marner is below average in the NHL at scoring goals.

But if you want to talk about dollar value, Marner was the 12th highest cap hit last season, and of the players making more than him, he had the 2nd best $/P value.

Okay I missed that. Better than league average at scoring of course but compared to forwards in his salary range he is amongst the worst.

That’s also a strange way of looking at things, and it’s only a single season. Even if we use your metric, I do agree he was worth the 11M this year in the regular season, but certainly not over the life of the contract.

 

[Twine Tickler]

Marner is an incredible talent. We will undoubtingly miss his ability to play in every phase of the game. Anyone who says otherwise is just lying to themselves. This is a perennial pt+/game player who is arguably one of the better penalty killers in the league.

In some sports, like Basketball, you cannot replace a dime with 2x nickels. That's is not the case in hockey. Time will tell if we can adequately use the money earmarked for Mitch in a more effective way. But nonetheless, we are losing one of the best players to ever play for the blue and white.

As much as I cannot stand the way Mitch and his camp have handled this situation, I am not going to diminish what he has accomplished as a Maple Leaf or deny the possibility of him having lasting success elsewhere. I really think this can be a parting of ways that benefits both club and player.

I really think our market requires players who aren't afraid of the noise. As much as Mitch claimed he was never bothered by it, we all know he was never cut out for the bright lights or Toronto. There is overwhelming proof of this. As far as I am concerned, we have 3 more seasons of Auston, and I really would love to see the team bring in proven vets with resumes to back him up in those big moments. I don't care how old Marchand, Bennet, or Ekblad are or will be by the end of their next deals. I would really like to see them take a stab at those guys. What they lack in skill to Mitch, they far exceed in understanding what it takes to win in April-June. That is ultimately all that matters.

 

[leafsafc]

That's not what the poster said. The poster was saying Marner is below average in the NHL at scoring goals.

But if you want to talk about dollar value, Marner was the 12th highest cap hit last season, and of the players making more than him, he had the 2nd best $/P value.

I said I wish he had league average finishing ability in the playoffs.

You then brought out the classic regular season totals which include Februarys in Columbus & Buffalo.

At the end of the day, you're defending someone who doesn't want you anymore. He's leaving and more than half the fanbase is happy about it. That leaves you in a tough spot.

 

[Caesium]

I said I wish he had league average finishing ability in the playoffs.

You then brought out the classic regular season totals which include Februarys in Columbus & Buffalo.

At the end of the day, you're defending someone who doesn't want you anymore. He's leaving and more than half the fanbase is happy about it. That leaves you in a tough spot.

I don't think any NHL player has ever wanted me. Do you think NHL players want you?

 

[ToneDog]

Marner is an incredible talent. We will undoubtingly miss his ability to play in every phase of the game. Anyone who says otherwise is just lying to themselves. This is a perennial pt+/game player who is arguably one of the better penalty killers in the league.

In some sports, like Basketball, you cannot replace a dime with 2x nickels. That's is not the case in hockey. Time will tell if we can adequately use the money earmarked for Mitch in a more effective way. But nonetheless, we are losing one of the best players to ever play for the blue and white.

As much as I cannot stand the way Mitch and his camp have handled this situation, I am not going to diminish what he has accomplished as a Maple Leaf or deny the possibility of him having lasting success elsewhere. I really think this can be a parting of ways that benefits both club and player.

I really think our market requires players who aren't afraid of the noise. As much as Mitch claimed he was never bothered by it, we all know he was never cut out for the bright lights or Toronto. There is overwhelming proof of this. As far as I am concerned, we have 3 more seasons of Auston, and I really would love to see the team bring in proven vets with resumes to back him up in those big moments. I don't care how old Marchand, Bennet, or Ekblad are or will be by the end of their next deals. I would really like to see them take a stab at those guys. What they lack in skill to Mitch, they far exceed in understanding what it takes to win in April-June. That is ultimately all that matters.

You may not replace him in the regular season with two nickels but in the playoffs 2 nickels easily replaces one penny.

 

[leafsafc]

I don't think any NHL player has ever wanted me. Do you think NHL players want you?

You understood what I meant

 

[Confucius]

There will be no cup in Canada until Canada fixes it's bullshit over taxation. And if we don't want to do that, then enjoy the reality that you will always be against the odds since you get to keep almost 2M more in a 10M contract in a no state tax market in America.

Reality. Money talks. It's a bitch and has zero f***s about your virtue or emotions.

Are you a tax expert? Just asking because reading about JT’s tax problem he was under the impression that he only had to pay 15% tax all in since it was bonus money and some U S Canadian treaty. I think that would be lower than Florida even though they have no state tax, they still have federal tax, where I’ve seen could be as high as 37%

 

[PanniniClaus]

Marner is an incredible talent. We will undoubtingly miss his ability to play in every phase of the game. Anyone who says otherwise is just lying to themselves. This is a perennial pt+/game player who is arguably one of the better penalty killers in the league.

In some sports, like Basketball, you cannot replace a dime with 2x nickels. That's is not the case in hockey. Time will tell if we can adequately use the money earmarked for Mitch in a more effective way. But nonetheless, we are losing one of the best players to ever play for the blue and white.

As much as I cannot stand the way Mitch and his camp have handled this situation, I am not going to diminish what he has accomplished as a Maple Leaf or deny the possibility of him having lasting success elsewhere. I really think this can be a parting of ways that benefits both club and player.

I really think our market requires players who aren't afraid of the noise. As much as Mitch claimed he was never bothered by it, we all know he was never cut out for the bright lights or Toronto. There is overwhelming proof of this. As far as I am concerned, we have 3 more seasons of Auston, and I really would love to see the team bring in proven vets with resumes to back him up in those big moments. I don't care how old Marchand, Bennet, or Ekblad are or will be by the end of their next deals. I would really like to see them take a stab at those guys. What they lack in skill to Mitch, they far exceed in understanding what it takes to win in April-June. That is ultimately all that matters.

I agree with much of your post... but what exactly did he accomplish as a Leaf?

 

[ULF_55]

Are you a tax expert? Just asking because reading about JT’s tax problem he was under the impression that he only had to pay 15% tax all in since it was bonus money and some U S Canadian treaty. I think that would be lower than Florida even though they have no state tax, they still have federal tax, where I’ve seen could be as high as 37%

FYI, they think he(Tavares) is going to win that one.

A win for Leafs' John Tavares in face-off with Canadian tax court: Report

Toronto Maple Leaf centre appears close to ending his protracted battle with Canadian tax officials over millions in his 2018 signing bonus.

torontosun.com

The CRA contended the bonus should be treated as salary and taxed at 50%, close to $8 million Canadian. Tavares’ representatives counter that it qualifies for a preferential 15% rate under the Canada-U.S. Tax Treaty, a deal covering income earned by non-residents providing services in Canada.

Such cases, when adjourned, usually are not pursued by the government. Postmedia’s request for comment from Tavares’ agent, Pat Brisson, was not immediately returned.