Player Discussion Mitch Marner Part Infinity

[notbias]

That was to hype up trade value.

Oh ok, so the reported trade offers were to drive down his signing value?

Help me make sense of this, please.

Correct.
Didn't want him at the overpay required.
If they really wanted him, he would have ALREADY have been signed. They clearly wanted Nylander MORE.

We have Nylander as the buttersoft winger. But he can carry his own in the playoffs - even playing with Lead Legs.

When he walks, it'll be clear the Leafs didn't want Marner.

They offered Marner more than Nylander, seems like they wanted him more, but sure, however you want to flip this around.

Yes, everyone has a price.

I wouldn't want McDavid at max cap.

 

[Tak7]

Didn't want him at the overpay required.
If they really wanted him, he would have ALREADY have been signed. They clearly wanted Nylander MORE.

We have Nylander as the buttersoft winger. But he can carry his own in the playoffs - even playing with Lead Legs.

When he walks, it'll be clear the Leafs didn't want Marner.

This spin is gold tier copium.

They wanted him. They tried to extend him. They grew frustrated that he wouldn't negotiate. They thought going public with the Rantanen stuff would add pressure, but it backfired.

Whatever way you want to twist it: Mitch Marner will not be playing for the Toronto Maple Leafs next season, because Mitch Marner did not want to play for the Toronto Maple Leafs next season.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Wherever Marner signs, I can guarantee there has been active tampering for 3+ years. Unless of course, he speaks to teams for the first time on July 1st at noon

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Whatever way you want to twist it: Mitch Marner will not be playing for the Toronto Maple Leafs next season, because Mitch Marner did not want to play for the Toronto Maple Leafs next season for the money they wanted him at.

FTFY.

First off I'd rather have Marner than Matthews.

Marner's quality of life will improve going elsewhere. I wish him well. He's a great player but Marner + Matthews will never make playoff success. So extending him was never in the cards for me.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Refreshing to see a post here that isn't overly childish.
Hard to not agree with everything said.

Tell us you're on Marner's payroll without telling us you're on Marner's payroll.

The east is hilariously bad outside the state of Florida. The $12m+ can be spent on a collection of players that'll more than make up for the "loss" of Mitchy in the playoffs, while still being adequate in getting there

Yes, it really is as simple as that.

Yup his 8 goals in the last 6 years/8 playoff series will be difficult to replace. Forget his regular season 100 points. It is clear that teams do not treat a game in November against Nashville or Detroit the same way they treat playoff games (unless your name is Marner).

It's hard not laugh at all the posts along the lines of "OMG how will we ever replace Marner".

Here's one simple answer - give Marchand a 2 year deal. That makes us a better playoff team just like that, plus we have cap space left over to spend on someone else. It doesn't get much easier than that.

 

[ACC1224]

Wherever Marner signs, I can guarantee there has been active tampering for 3+ years. Unless of course, he speaks to teams for the first time on July 1st at noon

Teams don't directly tamper from my understanding, players on those teams reach out. A decent number last summer asked him to jump ship and I'm sure there were more at the 4 Nations.
Very popular guy around the league.

 

[notbias]

It's hard not laugh at all the posts along the lines of "OMG how will we ever replace Marner".

Here's one simple answer - give Marchand a 2 year deal. That makes us a better playoff team just like that, plus we have cap space left over to spend on someone else. It doesn't get much easier than that.

It's hard not to laugh at posts that assume every player in free agency will just sign here.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Teams don't directly tamper from my understanding, players on those teams reach out. A decent number last summer asked him to jump ship and I'm sure there were more at the 4 Nations.
Very popular guy around the league.

How can reporters tweet contract AAV and term before July 1st if there isn't tampering?

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Here's one simple answer - give Marchand a 2 year deal. That makes us a better playoff team just like that, plus we have cap space left over to spend on someone else. It doesn't get much easier than that.

True.

except Marchand would likely take 50% less to play for FLA than come here.
for many reasons.

 

[Stephen]

tried to trade him twice.

Leafs tried to trade Mats Sundin for Rob Blake. That’s what GM’s do.

 

[ACC1224]

How can reporters tweet contract AAV and term before July 1st if there isn't tampering?

Exact contract details?

 

[Stephen]

Remember when ...

The Florida Panthers won the President's trophy in 2020-21 and disappointingly lost in round #2.

View attachment 1048627

So they dealt their leading scorer Jonathan Huberdeau (2nd in League scoring with 115 points) to Calgary to change their DNA bringing in Matthew Tkachuk.

View attachment 1048628.

Many Leaf fans at that time thought the Florida would take a step back and goalie Bob contract would sink them for years.

However since that move Florida Panthers and been to the Stanley Cup finals 3 straight years, winning it all last year and 2 wins from repeating this year.

View attachment 1048636

What have our Leafs achieved during the same time period running it back with the core 4 other than losing to those very same Panthers multiple times in the 2nd round.

What our GM appears to be doing is following that same game plan by walking away from a proven Marner (a small and ineffective playoff performer), despite being a 100 point and Leafs leading scoring (just like Huberdeau) and changing the DNA of the Leafs to be more Cup competitive.

Some of the best moves he might be able to make with the Marner Cap space in bring in current Florida Panthers like Sam Bennett, Brad Marchand and Aaron Ekblad

As the saying goes "History has a way of repeating itself" and the Leafs are attempting to follow the Florida game plan to turn around all their playoff failure into triumph and hopefully Cup success.

"There is nothing to fear but fear itself" is a famous quote from Franklin D. Roosevelt's

Another piece to compare Mitch Marner to is Johnny Gaudreau (RIP). Looking at him as a player on another team without the emotional investment, I don’t think anyone would necessarily think that guy will figure it out in the playoffs and dominate one day.

 

[Stephen]

Teams don't directly tamper from my understanding, players on those teams reach out. A decent number last summer asked him to jump ship and I'm sure there were more at the 4 Nations.
Very popular guy around the league.

Shoulda left last summer then.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

That was to hype up trade value.


Correct.
Didn't want him at the overpay required.
If they really wanted him, he would have ALREADY have been signed. They clearly wanted Nylander MORE.

We have Nylander as the buttersoft winger. But he can carry his own in the playoffs - even playing with Lead Legs.

When he walks, it'll be clear the Leafs didn't want Marner.

This spin is gold tier copium.

They wanted him. They tried to extend him. They grew frustrated that he wouldn't negotiate. They thought going public with the Rantanen stuff would add pressure, but it backfired.

Whatever way you want to twist it: Mitch Marner will not be playing for the Toronto Maple Leafs next season, because Mitch Marner did not want to play for the Toronto Maple Leafs next season.

It's entirely possible the team doesn't want him here anymore AND Marner doesn't want to be here either.

It's a mutual agreement to part ways. And once they do both parties will blame the other. Each will engage in a media smear campaign of slander and propaganda.

I'm hoping for a real shit show to be honest.

 

[Stephen]

It's entirely possible the team doesn't want him here anymore AND Marner doesn't want to be here either.

It's a mutual agreement to part ways. And once they do both parties will blame the other. Each will engage in a media smear campaign of slander and propaganda.

I'm hoping for a real shit show to be honest.

I don’t think it will end up being that interesting. Marner’s big gripes will date back to the Babcock and Lamoriello era. He certainly can’t dunk on Shanahan for standing by him 9 years. I don’t think Treliving would have much of a relationship with him to suggest trying to sign and or trade him was some massive betrayal. He’s got a pseudo sibling rivalry with Matthews and Nylander. We’ve hashed that out since 2017.

From a team perspective, the player was kind of a dink when it mattered, wasn’t he?

 

[notbias]

Remember when ...

The Florida Panthers won the President's trophy in 2020-21 and disappointingly lost in round #2.

View attachment 1048627

So they dealt their leading scorer Jonathan Huberdeau (2nd in League scoring with 115 points) to Calgary to change their DNA bringing in Matthew Tkachuk.

View attachment 1048628.

Many Leaf fans at that time thought the Florida would take a step back and goalie Bob contract would sink them for years.

However since that move Florida Panthers and been to the Stanley Cup finals 3 straight years, winning it all last year and 2 wins from repeating this year.

View attachment 1048636

What have our Leafs achieved during the same time period running it back with the core 4 other than losing to those very same Panthers multiple times in the 2nd round.

What our GM appears to be doing is following that same game plan by walking away from a proven Marner (a small and ineffective playoff performer), despite being a 100 point and Leafs leading scoring (just like Huberdeau) and changing the DNA of the Leafs to be more Cup competitive.

Some of the best moves he might be able to make with the Marner Cap space in bring in current Florida Panthers like Sam Bennett, Brad Marchand and Aaron Ekblad

As the saying goes "History has a way of repeating itself" and the Leafs are attempting to follow the Florida game plan to turn around all their playoff failure into triumph and hopefully Cup success.

"There is nothing to fear but fear itself" is a famous quote from Franklin D. Roosevelt's

The issue is, there are no teams dumb enough to give up a Tkachuk/Bennett for so cheap.

I think it is so hilarious to see people say "just do what Florida did" and arguably, Treliving helped them more than anyone else.

 

[Just Rude]

The east is hilariously bad outside the state of Florida. The $12m+ can be spent on a collection of players that'll more than make up for the "loss" of Mitchy in the playoffs, while still being adequate in getting there

It's time for Mitch to leave, but who? UFA examples? The cap is going up, which means contracts will as well. That $12m will be gone before you know it. Marchand? There will be a bidding war. Ehlers? Duchene? Nelson? Boeser?

We don't exactly have a lot of trade capital, so those options will be limited.

Please don't say Bennett. He's not coming here unless it is a ridiculous overpay (as in $10m). If Tre signs him to that, he should be fired the next day.

The previous FO really screwed this up. He should have been dealt a year or two ago. His playoff performances notwithstanding, letting him walk for nothing is almost criminal.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

I don’t think it will end up being that interesting. Marner’s big gripes will date back to the Babcock and Lamoriello era. He certainly can’t dunk on Shanahan for standing by him 9 years. I don’t think Treliving would have much of a relationship with him to suggest trying to sign and or trade him was some massive betrayal. He’s got a pseudo sibling rivalry with Matthews and Nylander. We’ve hashed that out since 2017.

From a team perspective, the player was kind of a dink when it mattered, wasn’t he?

When it comes to Marner it really does seem like maximum drama surrounds everything he does.

I suspect there's more to this divorce than just a difference in how much each side thinks Marner should be paid.

 

[Dekes For Days]

First of all, we don’t even know if the Toronto Maple Leafs want Mitch Marner under any circumstances or not.

Yes we do. Not only have they constantly praised him and been in negotiations to bring him back, they explicitly stated they want him back. Treliving said "We want to keep Mitch here for a long time", and Berube said he "100%" wants the Leafs to re-sign Marner. It's only you and your friends on here that don't understand what they're losing.

Second of all, we don’t know if Mitch Marner wants to come back under any circumstances or not. Or when he would have made up his mind he wanted a change or not.

Yes we do. Marner stated last offseason that it was his goal and desire to stay with the Leafs long-term.

Third of all, we need a meeting of the minds between two parties to come to a contractual agreement.

Yes, though that's never stopped you from blaming GMs before, and there is no reason to think that Treliving never had any possible path to re-signing him.

So why wouldn’t you want your GM to swing for the fences and try for a Rantanen? Who cares if it hurts Marner’s feelings?

I don't know why any fan would want their GM to try and downgrade their player. Much less when it's a pointless attempt that will obviously never be accepted by the player, and the only thing it accomplishes is alienating the critical player you're trying to re-sign and creating a media circus heading into the playoffs.

And finally, everybody can see this is just some Dubas angle here.

You're the only one bringing up Dubas (and unsurprisingly, trying to misrepresent his actions). He has nothing to do with this.

 

[Confucius]

He'd be a huge loss as all signs are pointing towards him leaving.

We've gotten spoiled a bit to see the influx of talent that came in with Nylander, Matthews and Marner along with Tavares. This team became a perennial playoff team with a lack of playoff success. No guarantee we will be better without Marner depending on the replacement.

Wish it could have been different because I honest think we have three of our best all time players playing for us right now. Would suck if Marner's departure is a bitter one for him and the city he grew up in, and the team he grew up cheering for.

I would think we wouldn’t be looking for a single replacement. I’d imagine we will obtain 3 or 4 guys in around the 5 million range. After all we are getting off the merry go round of paying 4 guys 1/2 the cap. Hopefully..

 

[Gallagbi]

The issue is, there are no teams dumb enough to give up a Tkachuk/Bennett for so cheap.

I think it is so hilarious to see people say "just do what Florida did" and arguably, Treliving helped them more than anyone else.

Florida also lucked into the playoffs to beat Boston. They lost control of their own fate and made the playoffs when Pitts couldn't clutch up

Full credit to them making the most of the opportunity and building off it, but I do wonder how things play out if Pitts just wins their games, as expected.

 

[Tak7]

FTFY.

First off I'd rather have Marner than Matthews.

Marner's quality of life will improve going elsewhere. I wish him well. He's a great player but Marner + Matthews will never make playoff success. So extending him was never in the cards for me.

You didn't fix anything - if it was a question of money, there would have been negotiations by now.

He didn't negotiate, because he wanted to see where this past season went, and if he was unhappy with how it went, he was leaving. It's that simple.

Extending him might not have been in the cards for you, but the Leafs wanted him.

Marner won't be playing for the Leafs next season, because Marner doesn't want to, not because the Leafs didn't want him.

You don't throw 8x$13m in front of someone who you don't want

 

[HamiltonNHL]

but the Leafs wanted him.

Dubas wanted him.
Tre picked Nylander.
It's that simple.

 

[Tak7]

Teams don't directly tamper from my understanding, players on those teams reach out. A decent number last summer asked him to jump ship and I'm sure there were more at the 4 Nations.

The NHL combine was last week in Buffalo - plenty of agents were there. There's definitely tampering involved; it's always subtle with very specific language, but it happens and it's an open secret that it happens.

 

[notbias]

Dubas wanted him.
Tre picked Nylander.
It's that simple.

Your whole premise is because Marner was asked to waive his NMC Tre picked Nylander.

Guess where this falls apart? He tried to trade Nylander first.