Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Part 3758391849

[Mess]

This has to be satire.

I believe the confusion is surrounding expected stats. Expected goals ironically doesn't include actual goals scored on a shot into their equation, and even a goal depending on where the shot comes from is only considered as a shot.

Marner will never be a goal scorer. Marner has played 64 playoff games over 9 playoff seasons and has scored 12 total goals.

Willy Nylander Leafs other high-end winger has for example scored 8 goals and 15 points in his last 9 playoff games played and currently leads this years playoffs in points.

This is why Treliving put a high priority of getting Willy signed for 8 years @$11.5 mil and was willing to deal Marner away for Mikko Rantanen in a 1-1 deal.

Rantanen much like Willy are goal scorers and currently lead the 2025 playoffs in points. This is where you get your best bang for your contract buck in a Salary Cap World. Rantanen just signed for 8 years at $12 mil AAV.

 

[ACC1224]

I believe he is referring to expected stats. Expected goals ironically doesn't include actual goals scored on a shot into their equation, and even a goal depending on where the shot comes from is only considered as a shot.

Marner will never be a goal scorer. Marner has played 64 playoff games over 9 playoff seasons and has scored 12 total goals.

Willy Nylander Leafs other high-end winger has for example scored 8 goals and 15 points in his last 9 playoff games played and currently leads this years playoffs in points.

This is why Treliving put a high priority of getting Willy signed for 8 years @$11.5 mil and was willing to deal Marner away for Mikko Rantanen in a 1-1 deal.

Rantanen much like Willy are goal scorers and currently lead the 2025 playoffs in points. This is where you get your best bang for your contract buck in a Salary Cap World. Rantanen just signed for 8 years at $12 mil AAV.

View attachment 1030728

You really do have a knack for getting everything backwards, guessing that's intentional.

 

[sunstersun]

My bigger question is even if Marner shoots it more to compensate for a decrepit Matthews, will it be effective? The guy is using a squirt gun, when Nylander brings a Bazooka.

I still want him to shoot even if Matthews is more effective, because it keeps the goalie and defence honest.

 

[tuckerintensity]

I believe he is referring to expected stats. Expected goals ironically doesn't include actual goals scored on a shot into their equation, and even a goal depending on where the shot comes from is only considered as a shot.

They were literally talking about shots, no xAnything. Just shots. Shots, shots, shots, shots, shots, shots.

 

[francis246]

Maybe we should consider if Mitch can produce better with another C?

We can put Matthews in the strict shutdown role since we all agree he's terrible offensively nowadays and start utilizing Marner in a more offensive role. May be a bit of offense yet to be unlocked just yet.

This is my mindset as well

 

[Tak7]

My bigger question is even if Marner shoots it more to compensate for a decrepit Matthews, will it be effective? The guy is using a squirt gun, when Nylander brings a Bazooka.

I still want him to shoot even if Matthews is more effective, because it keeps the goalie and defence honest.

Too many people continue to under-estimate Marner's shot - he's got a very good one, we just don't see him utilize it enough.

When he does shoot on the powerplay, he seems moreso to be doing it for deflections or creating rebounds in front. Really need him to just rip a few off his stick just to change the approach of the Florida PK. Was pretty interesting that they targeted Marner so aggressively, again, last night while on the PK.

This half wall Marner nonsense also doesn't work either - get him back at the point where he can actually quarterback the thing.

 

[sunstersun]

Too many people continue to under-estimate Marner's shot - he's got a very good one, we just don't see him utilize it enough.

When he does shoot on the powerplay, he seems moreso to be doing it for deflections or creating rebounds in front. Really need him to just rip a few off his stick just to change the approach of the Florida PK. Was pretty interesting that they targeted Marner so aggressively, again, last night while on the PK.

This half wall Marner nonsense also doesn't work either - get him back at the point where he can actually quarterback the thing.

Well it's the perfect moment to show off your finishing ability. Matthews has literally been Space Jam Monstered.

 

[francis246]

I don't think so at all - Mitch has a vast abundance of natural talent to fall back on. He could possibly be very effective in that role, it's just that he's literally never even been tried there.

We see the version of Mitch you’re talking about whenever Matthews goes down because Mitch has no other choice but to create his own scoring opportunities, he will even get to the front of the net. I think there’s just something about when he and Matthews play together they have it programmed where Mitch needs to create the chances for Matthews and that’s it. It’s become too stagnant between the two and they aren’t getting creative.

 

[sunstersun]

We see the version of Mitch you’re talking about whenever Matthews goes down because Mitch has no other choice but to create his own scoring opportunities, he will even get to the front of the net. I think there’s just something about when he and Matthews play together they have it programmed where Mitch needs to create the chances for Matthews and that’s it. It’s become too stagnant between the two and they aren’t getting creative.

I agree, I was very impressed with Marner this year when Matthews was injured.

 

[GoonieFace]

Id swear by these comments we are defending a borderline 2nd line player, not a guy that will soon be making $12.5 mil plus.

Is it too much to ask that he take over a game once in awhile? Not get excited over an assist and a blocked shot.

At some point in this series we will need him to do more offensively.

 

[Antropovsky]

Goals don't count as shots on net. They are goals lol.

It's like you don't watch. Marner literally had a wrist shot from the blue line as a shot haha

Yea I saw that one too... not sure if he had even crossed the blueline and he fluttered it at Bob.

 

[Superstar]

Well, that’s what the Capitals did

Dubas already tried it after he got to Pittsburg with the likes of Andreas Johnsson, Michael Bunting, Reilly Smith, Rickard Rakell, etc..maybe he's still trying to build a finesse team as he did with the Leafs, lol...but Marner has a skillset he doesn't have with any other players on his roster.

 

[LeafGrief]

Id swear by these comments we are defending a borderline 2nd line player, not a guy that will soon be making $12.5 mil plus.

Is it too much to ask that he take over a game once in awhile? Not get excited over an assist and a blocked shot.

At some point in this series we will need him to do more offensively.

For my part, I'm happy that in the games where he's not taking over he's at least finding ways to contribute. He's playing good hockey games, the sort that you're happy to get from an average 1st liner. That's light years better than the ol, "become the worst player on the team" that Marner perfected during the MTL series.

Nylander has (and to an extreme extent, Rantanen) thrown down the gauntlet for what is truly expected of a top player. If we want to go deep into the playoffs, we'll need Matthews and Marner to put their big boy pants on and take over games. They get paid like it, so it's fair that we expect it.

But while we're in the waiting room, I'll happily post that it's better they're playing solid than playing like outright turds.

 

[ULF_55]

I don't ever see it happening, but if they move Matthews away from Knies and marner and come up with a good defensive center, it might be worth a look.

Knies - center - marner

Matthews has the lowest efficiency rating (shooting %) of all players who have scored these playoffs.

Don't take marner away from Knies who doesn't appear to be broken.

Maybe getting Matthews away from the better defenders can get him going.

At least 20 playoffs game last 5 years:

 

[sunstersun]

Dubas already tried it after he got to Pittsburg with the likes of Andreas Johnsson, Michael Bunting, Reilly Smith, Rickard Rakell, etc..maybe he's still trying to build a finesse team as he did with the Leafs, lol...but Marner has a skillset he doesn't have with any other players on his roster.

I honestly don't think finesse or physical was the problem. We had chokers, and bad goaltending.

I thought we could go far in 2021 and 2022.

We still have chokers(Matthews), but now we have good goaltending.

We also have a Conn Smythe player in Willy.

 

[Aashir]

If only this was Domi passing.

I think swapping Marner and domi is more so trying to maximize Marner a bit more

You see correct in Matthews not scoring is not marners fault, but Marner keeps finding a guy who won’t score.

I’d try Marner in a different line only because he should have someone on his line that can finish his setups even if they aren’t an empty net

Also it isn’t sustainable to expect the second line, specifically nylander and patches, to look like Mcdavid and Hyman every game.

It’s a shame Laughton isn’t a 20ish goal scorer as I would’ve tried mcmann/jarnkrok with Laughton and Marner. The Laughton line got torched so I wouldn’t mind switching it up.

I wouldn’t be opposed to swapping around Marner if we had the right personelle, but I don’t think we have the goal scoring C currently.

 

[ACC1224]

I think swapping Marner and domi is more so trying to maximize Marner a bit more

You see correct in Matthews not scoring is not marners fault, but Marner keeps finding a guy who won’t score.

I’d try Marner in a different line only because he should have someone on his line that can finish his setups even if they aren’t an empty net

Also it isn’t sustainable to expect the second line, specifically nylander and patches, to look like Mcdavid and Hyman every game.

It’s a shame Laughton isn’t a 20ish goal scorer as I would’ve tried mcmann/jarnkrok with Laughton and Marner. The Laughton line got torched so I wouldn’t mind switching it up.

I wouldn’t be opposed to swapping around Marner if we had the right personelle, but I don’t think we have the goal scoring C currently.

Swapping Marner and Domi severely weakens them defensively.

 

[DarkKnight]

I think swapping Marner and domi is more so trying to maximize Marner a bit more

You see correct in Matthews not scoring is not marners fault, but Marner keeps finding a guy who won’t score.

I’d try Marner in a different line only because he should have someone on his line that can finish his setups even if they aren’t an empty net

Also it isn’t sustainable to expect the second line, specifically nylander and patches, to look like Mcdavid and Hyman every game.

It’s a shame Laughton isn’t a 20ish goal scorer as I would’ve tried mcmann/jarnkrok with Laughton and Marner. The Laughton line got torched so I wouldn’t mind switching it up.

I wouldn’t be opposed to swapping around Marner if we had the right personelle, but I don’t think we have the goal scoring C currently.

Putting him with Holmberg and McCann is no answer and you're sacrificing matchups too imo. Marner can shoot more, perhaps adjust within the line. I don't see a good fit spreading out three lines, Domi is a defensively liability too.

 

[Aashir]

Swapping Marner and Domi severely weakens them defensively.

It does, but I think you could live with that change if moving Marner to the third line was a net positive. Barkov also isn’t the hardest player to limit his offence if he still matches the Matthews line, he often expels so much energy in the dzone+neutral zone that he ends up not doing a ton in the ozone like a traditional superstar.

Marner with Laughton and jarnkrok would be a bit intruiging if Jarnkrok actually produced like he does in the regular season, and Laughton was a better scorer.

This isn’t to take away from Laughton as he has been good in his role, but I feel we should be getting more offence out of him.

As of now I don’t think we have the right Center to move Marner down and expect more/better results. We are gonna need Marner to realize Matthews isn’t finishing and adapt, he’s done so in the past but idk if he is willing to change up his style to shoot more.

 

[tuckerintensity]

Swapping Marner and Domi severely weakens them defensively.

Plus, why is anyone wanting to mess with this line? It's been very strong the entire playoff so far and they were awesome last night.

 

[francis246]

It does, but I think you could live with that change if moving Marner to the third line was a net positive. Barkov also isn’t the hardest player to limit his offence if he still matches the Matthews line, he often expels so much energy in the dzone+neutral zone that he ends up not doing a ton in the ozone like a traditional superstar.

Marner with Laughton and jarnkrok would be a bit intruiging if Jarnkrok actually produced like he does in the regular season, and Laughton was a better scorer.

This isn’t to take away from Laughton as he has been good in his role, but I feel we should be getting more offence out of him.

As of now I don’t think we have the right Center to move Marner down and expect more/better results. We are gonna need Marner to realize Matthews isn’t finishing and adapt, he’s done so in the past but idk if he is willing to change up his style to shoot more.

Man Ryan O’Reilly was the perfect fit with Marner. Their games complimented each other so well. I think Marner plays best with a guy like O’Reilly / Tavares. Guys who play a solid cycle game and can keep possession.

 

[ACC1224]

It does, but I think you could live with that change if moving Marner to the third line was a net positive. Barkov also isn’t the hardest player to limit his offence if he still matches the Matthews line, he often expels so much energy in the dzone+neutral zone that he ends up not doing a ton in the ozone like a traditional superstar.

Marner with Laughton and jarnkrok would be a bit intruiging if Jarnkrok actually produced like he does in the regular season, and Laughton was a better scorer.

This isn’t to take away from Laughton as he has been good in his role, but I feel we should be getting more offence out of him.

As of now I don’t think we have the right Center to move Marner down and expect more/better results. We are gonna need Marner to realize Matthews isn’t finishing and adapt, he’s done so in the past but idk if he is willing to change up his style to shoot more.

Still not seeing any reason for change at the moment.

 

[IPS]

Id swear by these comments we are defending a borderline 2nd line player, not a guy that will soon be making $12.5 mil plus.

Is it too much to ask that he take over a game once in awhile? Not get excited over an assist and a blocked shot.

At some point in this series we will need him to do more offensively.

The difference between us and the cup could very well be the Marner/Matthews elevating their games more.

A Marner performance equalling what Willy did last night in game 2 would be massive.

 

[Gabriel426]

My bigger question is even if Marner shoots it more to compensate for a decrepit Matthews, will it be effective? The guy is using a squirt gun, when Nylander brings a Bazooka.

I still want him to shoot even if Matthews is more effective, because it keeps the goalie and defence honest.

Well you can’t score if you don’t shoot.

MM shooting more is a good thing

 

[arso40]

Too many people continue to under-estimate Marner's shot - he's got a very good one, we just don't see him utilize it enough.

When he does shoot on the powerplay, he seems moreso to be doing it for deflections or creating rebounds in front. Really need him to just rip a few off his stick just to change the approach of the Florida PK. Was pretty interesting that they targeted Marner so aggressively, again, last night while on the PK.

This half wall Marner nonsense also doesn't work either - get him back at the point where he can actually quarterback the thing.

They only moved him there cause the pp was Doing nothing