Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Part 3758391849

[Gary Nylund]

Antro literally admitted to this during the first couple games. So there are in fact people who feel this way and it’s not a secret. To say that there aren’t people who feel this way is a bit naive.

There are people who would absolutely HATE that we win with Marner, because their argument of not being able to win with him or a player like him turns into a pile of Kaka. What would they post about now? Additionally it would mean 7-8 more years of him on the team which a lot of people don’t want. So yes I definitely believe the are people who hope we lose to Florida so the leafs don’t resign Mitch. It’s quite sad. You might not feel that way personally, but I guarantee you there are people who absolutely feel that way. Some are closeted, some have been open about it in this thread and the GDT’s.

Show me where he admitted to this.

 

[francis246]

If he was a difference maker in the playoffs like a McD, Drai, Mac,, then $500K is not a deal breaker but he has proven he is not. Why does he deserve to be overpaid again when the team has not made it past 5 wins in a single playoffs and he has virtually disappeared in games 5-7?

Anyway it is all moot unless they beat the Panthers. No way they bring him back if they do not beat the Panthers IMO.

I think Marner has done enough for the leafs to want him back. The decision isn’t in the leafs hands really. There’s no question they want him and don’t want to lose him for free.

Marner controls it right now, he’s got the UFA status. There not a scenario in my mind where the leafs willingly walk away from Marner, no matter how they try to spin it to the media.

 

[Leaf Fans]

I think Marner has done enough for the leafs to want him back. The decision isn’t in the leafs hands really. There’s no question they want him and don’t want to lose him for free.

Marner controls it right now, he’s got the UFA status. There not a scenario in my mind where the leafs willingly walk away from Marner, no matter how they try to spin it to the media.

Sure, but who gives a crap if he stays or goes? He has still played well these playoffs so far.

 

[Tak7]

I think Marner has done enough for the leafs to want him back. The decision isn’t in the leafs hands really. There’s no question they want him and don’t want to lose him for free.

Marner controls it right now, he’s got the UFA status. There not a scenario in my mind where the leafs willingly walk away from Marner, no matter how they try to spin it to the media.

Agree with this entirely.

Let's also be honest - since the core arrived here, the organization has done nothing but cater to them and give them exactly what they want. I have no doubt that the organization not only wants him back, but is willing to go close to what

Which is why, all along, I've maintained that Marner is gone - he's going to take this thing to free agency, and speak to other teams, and be motivated by the idea that he can make more money, elsewhere, playing with less scrutiny. It's been the way I always felt this was going to play out, long before we entered this final year of his deal.

 

[WilliamInLondon]

I think Marner has done enough for the leafs to want him back. The decision isn’t in the leafs hands really. There’s no question they want him and don’t want to lose him for free.

Marner controls it right now, he’s got the UFA status. There not a scenario in my mind where the leafs willingly walk away from Marner, no matter how they try to spin it to the media.

I agree. I think it comes down to the price tag and Marner's willingness to return. I wouldn't blame him if he wanted to try somewhere else for his family, be the undisputed top dog, change of scenery, etc. I also believe that he genuinely loves being a Leaf and would be open to staying under the right circumstances.

Rightly or wrongly, I think the Leafs clearing Round 1 gives them enough cover to re-sign Marner without the guy being mercilessly run out of town on opening night. Had the Leafs lost in 7 to the Senators, there is absolutely no way the Leafs could have re-signed Marner even if for a hometown discount.

If the Leafs lose to the Panthers in 5-7 games, my guess is on something like $13.5M-$14M X 8 would get it done. If the Leafs miraculously get past the Panthers, I think Zeus returns on $14M+ x 8. If the Leafs win the cup, marble statue by opening night.

 

[arso40]

I don’t disagree I would want less. For sure. I’m just saying the previous market for top 10 scorers in in high tax markets was around 14%.

Willy got 13% Marner has been better overall….

If the leafs offer 104 million a team would have to give him 14.8 to match.

I don’t see how true contenders could. I thought LA but they just lost 4 straight first rounds to Edmonton and kopitar is like 38.

Not sure if he stays now. If you sign him you don’t have to keep him forever. Losing him for nothing would be brutal.

He’s been better as far as getting them to the dance but if you are given the better intangibles to work with is it not expected for you to produce better results ? Yet they results havent been better so I disagree with him being better nylander in my opinion has been the better player and he never should be he was glued to holmberg god bless his soul but he should never be in the top 6 yet Willy still produces and you can harp about tougher matchups head to head with the top line for Ottawa Willy has out produced Mitch again so I don’t see

 

[Gary Nylund]

I agree. I think it comes down to the price tag and Marner's willingness to return. I wouldn't blame him if he wanted to try somewhere else for his family, be the undisputed top dog, change of scenery, etc. I also believe that he genuinely loves being a Leaf and would be open to staying under the right circumstances.

Rightly or wrongly, I think the Leafs clearing Round 1 gives them enough cover to re-sign Marner without the guy being mercilessly run out of town on opening night. Had the Leafs lost in 7 to the Senators, there is absolutely no way the Leafs could have re-signed Marner even if for a hometown discount.

If the Leafs lose to the Panthers in 5-7 games, my guess is on something like $13.5M-$14M X 8 would get it done. If the Leafs miraculously get past the Panthers, I think Zeus returns on $14M+ x 8. If the Leafs win the cup, marble statue by opening night.

If we lose in 5 and Marner is a non-factor against Florida like he was two years ago, "something like $13.5M-$14M X 8" would obviously get it done but why do you think this would be a good idea?

The only possible answer I can think of is that you don't care about the playoffs. All I can say is that I hope our management group thinks differently!

If Marner can't improve on his performance from two years ago, I wouldn't even want him at 12 million. To a team that wants to win the cup, if you can't perform in the big games against the tough teams, what good are you? If you're a choker, go help sell regular season tickets in Utah.

 

[Zybalto]

He’s been better as far as getting them to the dance but if you are given the better intangibles to work with is it not expected for you to produce better results ? Yet they results havent been better so I disagree with him being better nylander in my opinion has been the better player and he never should be he was glued to holmberg god bless his soul but he should never be in the top 6 yet Willy still produces and you can harp about tougher matchups head to head with the top line for Ottawa Willy has out produced Mitch again so I don’t see

Both were really good in the series in their roles.

I mean, Nylander got 86% ozone start % so I hope he would produce with that usage (Marner was closer to 50%) so it's not really what you think. I was really happy seeing Willy out there succeeding in important minutes at the end there in a good move by the coach as he looked fresh and motivated.

I don't understand the Nylander/Marner pissing contest around here. They combined for 17 points in the series. Let's be happy we have both?

 

[francis246]

Show me where he admitted to this.

I’m at work and can’t dig it out right now but I asked him directly after game 1 I believe.

 

[arso40]

Both were really good in the series in their roles.

I mean, Nylander got 86% ozone start % so I hope he would produce with that usage (Marner was closer to 50%) so it's not really what you think. I was really happy seeing Willy out there succeeding in important minutes at the end there in a good move by the coach as he looked fresh and motivated.

I don't understand the Nylander/Marner pissing contest around here. They combined for 17 points in the series. Let's be happy we have both?

Definitely from the marner side imo regardless of the starts which are important in a sense who you play with should out weigh that I personally would like it if people focus on the team winning or losing but I cant stand some of the takes that kind of force me to share my own opinion of what it actually is I would love for them both to succeed in helping the team win it all

 

[WilliamInLondon]

hypothetical:

1) Would you re-sign Marner on 8 X $14M this offseason (assuming he'd take it)?

OR

2) Let Marner walk. Bring back Tavares, sign Knies long-term, and fill out the rest with 1 year deals. Have a run at McDavid next summer with a 20% chance of actually landing the guy. 80% chance you strike out and maybe try to Plan B hail mary for Eichel to play with Matthews with about a 10% chance of success, which may marginally move the needle versus the status quo.

- Had the Leafs lost Round 1, #2 would have been a no-brainer.
- Anything ECF and beyond, I go with #1
- It's if the most likely outcome, which is hardest to decide on. Leafs lose to Florida in 5-7 games. I think I'd just roll the dice on #2 because I don't see internal growth from Knies, Robertson, Cowan as getting them over the hump

 

[WilliamInLondon]

If we lose in 5 and Marner is a non-factor against Florida like he was two years ago, "something like $13.5M-$14M X 8" would obviously get it done but why do you think this would be a good idea?

The only possible answer I can think of is that you don't care about the playoffs. All I can say is that I hope our management group thinks differently!

If Marner can't improve on his performance from two years ago, I wouldn't even want him at 12 million. To a team that wants to win the cup, if you can't perform in the big games against the tough teams, what good are you? If you're a choker, go help sell regular season tickets in Utah.

completely agree with your point. see my post above. my post that you quoted is what I think the internal management / the player thinking might be, not what I would personally do.

 

[arso40]

hypothetical:

1) Would you re-sign Marner on 8 X $14M this offseason (assuming he'd take it)?

OR

2) Let Marner walk. Bring back Tavares, sign Knies long-term, and fill out the rest with 1 year deals. Have a run at McDavid next summer with a 20% chance of actually landing the guy. 80% chance you strike out and maybe try to Plan B hail mary for Eichel to play with Matthews with about a 10% chance of success, which may marginally move the needle versus the status quo.

- Had the Leafs lost Round 1, #2 would have been a no-brainer.
- Anything ECF and beyond, I go with #1
- It's if the most likely outcome, which is hardest to decide on. Leafs lose to Florida in 5-7 games. I think I'd just roll the dice on #2 because I don't see internal growth from Knies, Robertson, Cowan as getting them over the hump

Definitely option 2

 

[ACC1224]

Both were really good in the series in their roles.

I mean, Nylander got 86% ozone start % so I hope he would produce with that usage (Marner was closer to 50%) so it's not really what you think. I was really happy seeing Willy out there succeeding in important minutes at the end there in a good move by the coach as he looked fresh and motivated.

I don't understand the Nylander/Marner pissing contest around here. They combined for 17 points in the series. Let's be happy we have both?

It's always been so weird, same with bringing Rantanan up.

 

[GoonieFace]

If they lose to Florida something needs to give. The easiest choice is to let Marner go. The only other option would to convince Matthews to waive, and get some pieces back.

I can’t see committing $13/year for 8 years to Marner as a good idea.

 

[Gary Nylund]

completely agree with your point. see my post above. my post that you quoted is what I think the internal management / the player thinking might be, not what I would personally do.

I want no part of Marner at anything above 12.9 million and he has a lot to prove before I'd give him that much. I'd also want a much shorter term than 8 years. JMHO.

It's always been so weird, same with bringing Rantanan up.

It has indeed been weird to see you constantly taking shots at Nylander in Marner threads. You've been doing it for years, if you realize how weird it is, why don't you just stop?

 

[MSZ]

I thought Marner would be one of the finalists for sure.

 

[LeafEgo]

Both were really good in the series in their roles.

I mean, Nylander got 86% ozone start % so I hope he would produce with that usage (Marner was closer to 50%) so it's not really what you think. I was really happy seeing Willy out there succeeding in important minutes at the end there in a good move by the coach as he looked fresh and motivated.

I don't understand the Nylander/Marner pissing contest around here. They combined for 17 points in the series. Let's be happy we have both?

Nylander had 38 OZ starts, Marner had 36 OZ starts (with 20 more shifts overall).

Zone and shooting percentages aren't all that useful.

 

[arso40]

Nylander had 38 OZ starts, Marner had 36 OZ starts (with 20 more shifts overall).

Zone and shooting percentages aren't all that useful.

So he lied to me for what exactly? lol this is the things I’m talking about like why do we have to be shady ?

 

[KAWAIlllI]

If only he was also generating offense, over a point a game, and near the top of both the team and league in points... wait.

Well I’m referring to earlier posts when others mentioned that he’s “learning” etc. And yes, he did manage to get some assists, you’re right about that

 

[arso40]

Well I’m referring to earlier posts when others mentioned that he’s “learning” etc. And yes, he did manage to get some assists, you’re right about that

How many goals were a direct result of his playmaking ?? Secondary assist are cool for sure some of them actually matter but he has been right on par with other seasons in order for us to be a legit contender he has to be our 3rd or 4th best player which is possible with Knies or jt playing like their hairs on fire

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Imo heavily gauge perform of this Florida series. The core needs to hard carry a few games. If they can't against Florida, then what is the point in keeping them together? Going out in 5 wouldn't be acceptable

 

[arso40]

Imo heavily gauge perform of this Florida series. The core needs to hard carry a few games. If they can't against Florida, then what is the point in keeping them together? Going out in 5 wouldn't be acceptable

In fairness the core did carry us but they need to up it a notch

 

[Antropovsky]

Antro literally admitted to this during the first couple games. So there are in fact people who feel this way and it’s not a secret. To say that there aren’t people who feel this way is a bit naive.

There are people who would absolutely HATE that we win with Marner, because their argument of not being able to win with him or a player like him turns into a pile of Kaka. What would they post about now? Additionally it would mean 7-8 more years of him on the team which a lot of people don’t want. So yes I definitely believe the are people who hope we lose to Florida so the leafs don’t resign Mitch. It’s quite sad. You might not feel that way personally, but I guarantee you there are people who absolutely feel that way. Some are closeted, some have been open about it in this thread and the GDT’s.

Show me where he admitted to this.

@francis246 What exactly are you suggesting I admitted to?

Also… kinda shady that you didn’t tag me, but hey—I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Hellcat]

The empty calorie points characterization is 100% substantiated come elimination games.

He just isn't a winner. There are good players and then there are winners. You know what they call good players that win nothing? Losers.

Points are points, it's stupid to try and minimize a players contributions, with faulty anti-fan logic.

When they start to take away empty net goals/assists when determining the Art Ross or Rocket Richard awards, you may have a point, until then your post is just empty calorie junk.

Is Ovie the greatest goal scorer of all time or should we take away his 65 empty netters?