Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Part 3758391849

[Stephen]

When he’s on top of his game, at even-strength I feel like the puck is always finding him and he has the confidence to hold it, make a man or two miss and make a great play. That "Marner Magic" that has you on the edge of your seat every time he gets it.

Every playoffs, I feel like he stops skating the puck in transition and is immediately looking to shovel it to the next guy as soon as he gets it. There's also this tendency he has to play very high and near the boards at the blueline and it feels like he is often just in strange positions on the ice.

I'm curious if anyone knows of any data that would verify what I believe i'm observing above. I'm not sure there's a clip to be found of him at even-strength last night holding the puck for more than 1 second.

It’s like he wants to turn himself into Quinn Hughes on the attack because you don’t have to go into corners.

 

[notbias]

So who scored the one phantom goal 5v5? As that line only has 3, not 4. So he has a 1/3rd of the 5v5 goals then.

D are also on the ice, I know this is shocking.

 

[Superstar]

Ironic that a guy who simply must have Dougie's number in his salary looks nothing like Dougie on the ice when it matters.

He was killer during contract talks...

 

[mclaren55]

D are also on the ice, I know this is shocking.

We are talking about Marner and Matthews vs Knies production/$, and Knies has as many EVG as they do, and three times as many total, yet you are arguing that by that metric, he isn't the best performer? Ok. Good talk coach.

 

[notbias]

We are talking about Marner and Matthews vs Knies production/$, and Knies has as many EVG as they do, and three times as many total, yet you are arguing that by that metric, he isn't the best performer? Ok. Good talk coach.

No, you are talking about that because it is what you chose to talk about to try to make your point.

I am talking about how effective the line as a whole has been in this playoff series.

Knies has 0 goals without a Marner/Matthews assist, I don't think just saying "he scored more" makes him the best of the three this series.

Both Marner and Matthews have contributed to more goals.

 

[Antropovsky]

And dominated.



View attachment 1026516

And what about this?



View attachment 1026518



What are you looking at?

I am shocked you still post.

You think 38-40% corsi vs Greig, Pinto and Armadio who had just 37, 34 and 27 points on the season is dominating? I think the three of them together make less than Marner.

Lol I'm looking at Marner on ice stats on natiral stat trick. While, You are looking at Knies Matthews and Marner on ice together stats.

So... I guess you've proven stats with Marner on the ice overall are worse than when hes been on the ice with Knies and Matthews. Lol I'm not surprised!

 

[notbias]

You think 38-40% corsi vs Greig, Pinto and Armadio who had just 37, 34 and 27 points on the season is dominating? I think the three of them together make less than Marner.

Lol I'm looking at Marner on ice stats on natiral stat trick. While, You are looking at Knies Matthews and Marner on ice together stats.

So... I guess you've proven stats with Marner on the ice overall are worse than when hes been on the ice with Knies and Matthews. Lol I'm not surprised!

I think Corsi is irrelevant, discuss the xGF% or GF%, those are much better stats.

You always complain about chances from far out by Marner and now you are praising the Pinto line for it... you are clueless and have no standards in your arguments.

And yes, when discussing a line, I look at the line...

 

[mclaren55]

No, you are talking about that because it is what you chose to talk about to try to make your point.

I am talking about how effective the line as a whole has been in this playoff series.

Knies has 0 goals without a Marner/Matthews assist, I don't think just saying "he scored more" makes him the best of the three this series.

Both Marner and Matthews have contributed to more goals.

I was talking about it, in response to your post, you chose to respond, hence WE are talking about it. You could have said "I don't think P/$ is an effective argument.", but you didn't. You chose to engage, at that point you have to argue in good faith to the point you're responding to.

You're response missed all context by saying "How is Knies the best player on that line? Because he is big and pushes guys?". That started this whole conversation, because you either mistakenly or intentionally missed the context in my first post. Marner and Matthews have only 2 and 3 EVP if you take Knies out, who cares?

The point is, for what those two get paid they should be outperforming Knies by a large margin, and they aren't. You can do the math any way you wish in terms of using goals or overall points, they are all remarkably similar. Which is a bad look for two of the top point/goal producers in the regular season. That's my point, my only point.

 

[Antropovsky]

I think Corsi is irrelevant, discuss the xGF% or GF%, those are much better stats.

You always complain about chances from far out by Marner and now you are praising the Pinto line for it... you are clueless and have no standards in your arguments.

And yes, when discussing a line, I look at the line...

Okay, xgf and xga now matter? I was told all season by Marner fans that xgf and xga don't matter!

What's your thoughts on these Marner "on ice" stats for xgf and xga of Marner with and without Matthews this past season.

Look forward to your response.

 

[Antropovsky]

I think Corsi is irrelevant, discuss the xGF% or GF%, those are much better stats.

You always complain about chances from far out by Marner and now you are praising the Pinto line for it... you are clueless and have no standards in your arguments.

And yes, when discussing a line, I look at the line...

Is there a line that has ever one a cup or multiple series for that matter with a corsi in the 40s?

Lol here are Mackinnon and Mcdavid playoff on ice corsi's to compare to Marners 38%. As you can see their corsi are very very very good.

 

[Gary Nylund]

If Marner goes to market I don’t think he’s getting 13/14 million. I think he’s gonna take 12.5 and go to a good team. My dark horse is still EDM, I think he’s gonna go play with McDavid. EDM was willing and prepared to extend Rantanen, if he was willing to waive there.

I said it before he probably has a Toronto number and it’s a shitty undefendable thing. But that’s the world man.

To this point in his career, Marner turns into a ~40 point player after game 86. If it happens again (game 87 was last night), why would any team that wants to go deep in the playoffs spend 12.5 of their cap on him?

BTW, here's a quote from Roger Federer, something to think about the next time someone says "you can't let talent like that walk".

“Yes, talent matters. I’m not going to stand here and tell you it doesn’t. But talent has a broad definition. Most of the time, it’s not about having a gift. It’s about having grit. In tennis, like in life, discipline is also a talent. And so is patience. Trusting yourself is a talent. Embracing the process—loving the process—is a talent. Managing your life, managing yourself. These can be talents, too. Some people are born with them. Everybody has to work at them.”

 

[hullsy47]

Hopefully Marner plays his last 2 games as a Leaf

97.1 detroit talking about marner and knies before the tiger game
They love knies
Marner at the right price

 

[francis246]

To this point in his career, Marner turns into a ~40 point player after game 86. If it happens again (game 87 was last night), why would any team that wants to go deep in the playoffs spend 12.5 of their cap on him?

BTW, here's a quote from Roger Federer, something to think about the next time someone says "you can't let talent like that walk".

“Yes, talent matters. I’m not going to stand here and tell you it doesn’t. But talent has a broad definition. Most of the time, it’s not about having a gift. It’s about having grit. In tennis, like in life, discipline is also a talent. And so is patience. Trusting yourself is a talent. Embracing the process—loving the process—is a talent. Managing your life, managing yourself. These can be talents, too. Some people are born with them. Everybody has to work at them.”

Because I think GM’s look at the whole picture. There will be GM’s who look at Marner and believe on their roster his production will be better with their players.

It’s the same reason he was on Team Canada. I think a lot of people in hockey think Toronto is the WORST market for him and I wouldn’t be surprised if many in hockey believe that away from Matthews and the Toronto market Marner could in fact be a key contributor to a teams playoff run.


Honestly I think many fans who want Marner gone are going to realize that he isn’t the issue. And letting him walk in my opinion isn’t going to solve anything. I’ve been vocal about what I believe the issue is. To me it’s Matthews. He’s not a good leader and he never plays like a game breaking franchise center man. So when Marner goes off and has a hell of a career elsewhere we will probably still be fighting to be successful in the playoffs, not because of losing Marner but because the heart of the teams issues is Matthews doesn’t have a winning bone in his body imo.

 

[Antropovsky]

If Marner goes to market I don’t think he’s getting 13/14 million. I think he’s gonna take 12.5 and go to a good team. My dark horse is still EDM, I think he’s gonna go play with McDavid. EDM was willing and prepared to extend Rantanen, if he was willing to waive there.

I said it before he probably has a Toronto number and it’s a shitty undefendable thing. But that’s the world man.

No way in hell Edmonton can afford him. They need to sign Bouchard still and have Mcdavid the next year...not to mention goalie issues.

 

[francis246]

No way in hell Edmonton can afford him. They need to sign Bouchard still and have Mcdavid the next year...not to mention goalie issues.

They can, the math has been done before. If they dump Kane and buy out Stuart Skinner and sign Bouchard to a bridge it can be done. It would be very tight.

If they get rid of Nurse and LTIR Kane it would give them the most flexibility. But it’s far from impossible. It’s already been rumoured they were hoping to make a run at Rantanen this off-season.

 

[ACC1224]

They can, the math has been done before. If they dump Kane and buy out Stuart Skinner and sign Bouchard to a bridge it can be done. It would be very tight.

If they get rid of Nurse and LTIR Kane it would give them the most flexibility. But it’s far from impossible. It’s already been rumoured they were hoping to make a run at Rantanen this off-season.

It's hard to imagine a young family with a newborn deciding to leave the only home they've known for Siberia.

I still don't believe he's going anywhere.

 

[francis246]

It's hard to imagine a young family with a newborn deciding to leave the only home they've known for Siberia.

I still don't believe he's going anywhere.

I agree it’ll be hard but maybe push come to shove Mitch can be swayed. But the point still stands, Mitch will have suitors from both good and bad teams. I don’t think his playoff numbers are going to scare any teams away from wanting a player of his calibre.

Mitch has had success at every turn of his career, at Men’s worlds, at 4 nations, in junior with London. It hasn’t worked out in Toronto, so it’s probably true this maybe isnt the place for him at the NHL level

 

[ACC1224]

I agree it’ll be hard but maybe push come to shove Mitch can be swayed. But the point still stands, Mitch will have suitors from both good and bad teams. I don’t think his playoff numbers are going to scare any teams away from wanting a player of his calibre.

Mitch has had success at every turn of his career, at Men’s worlds, at 4 nations, in junior with London. It hasn’t worked out in Toronto, so it’s probably true this maybe isnt the place for him at the NHL level

There will be a huge demand for him if he decides to shop himself around the league.

 

[arso40]

And dominated.



View attachment 1026516

And what about this?



View attachment 1026518



What are you looking at?

I am shocked you still post.

In fairness that it’s nearly enough production from our top line second Line too for that matter only issue is Berube clearly took mcmann away to help the third line while leaving the top line intact

 

[therealkoho]

Where’s that energy for Matthews? Or you just gonna lay everything at the feet of Marner?

Two of those minus’ are from empty nets and another off a Matthews pizza pizza hand delivered special up the middle of the ice.

Ahh yes that wonderful shorty, that for the usual suspects, was Marners fault, but some of us did see the ill advised and lazy pass sometimes called a "pizza" or sometimes "the Gardiner special" that put Mitch square into the middle of no man's land, or blame town.

That occurrence isn't the first time nor will it ever be that last if the club insist's on playing those two together. What's new is that the Captain finally admitted fault about 5 or 6 paragraphs down in attached https://athlonsports.com/nhl/toront...ton-matthews-and-mitch-marner-line-after-loss

Hopefully this is the start of a new era of responsibilty, and one in which the C is finally earned

 

[Gary Nylund]

Because I think GM’s look at the whole picture. There will be GM’s who look at Marner and believe on their roster his production will be better with their players.

There always seem to be GM's doing dumb things so this could easily be the case.

It’s the same reason he was on Team Canada. I think a lot of people in hockey think Toronto is the WORST market for him and I wouldn’t be surprised if many in hockey believe that away from Matthews and the Toronto market Marner could in fact be a key contributor to a teams playoff run.

Toronto is the BEST market for him if he could only stop turning into a pumpkin after game 86.

Honestly I think many fans who want Marner gone are going to realize that he isn’t the issue. And letting him walk in my opinion isn’t going to solve anything. I’ve been vocal about what I believe the issue is. To me it’s Matthews. He’s not a good leader and he never plays like a game breaking franchise center man. So when Marner goes off and has a hell of a career elsewhere we will probably still be fighting to be successful in the playoffs, not because of losing Marner but because the heart of the teams issues is Matthews doesn’t have a winning bone in his body imo.

There is no one player that is "the issue", not Marner, not Matthews and not anyone else. Everyone's responsible for themselves, that's it. Matthews can't blame his struggles on Marner, and Marner can't blame his struggles on Matthews.

 

[arso40]

No, you are talking about that because it is what you chose to talk about to try to make your point.

I am talking about how effective the line as a whole has been in this playoff series.

Knies has 0 goals without a Marner/Matthews assist, I don't think just saying "he scored more" makes him the best of the three this series.

Both Marner and Matthews have contributed to more goals.

You are correct but if your trying to imply Knies hasn’t been the best of the 3 you’ve lost me Hes probably been our best forward period let alone on a line that is underperforming

 

[therealkoho]

Believe this or not, I did call it in 6. Now go stomp some Senator huevos in Ottawa

 

[Tak7]

You are correct but if your trying to imply Knies hasn’t been the best of the 3 you’ve lost me Hes probably been our best forward period let alone on a line that is underperforming

He and Tavares have been a level above any other Leafs forward this series imo

 

[arso40]

He and Tavares have been a level above any other Leafs forward this series imo

And what do they have in common? They score goals and play hard all the time