Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Part 3758391849

[IPS]

I did miss the first few minutes still in Europe. Really liked the second and third. I do find with the pace a lot of fumbling, but seems both teams.

Either way one bad game (whatever the opinion is for whom) doesn't erase him being world class in his other showings of the series.

 

[Tak7]

Thought you were better than this garbage.

They need to be better, man.

Bit harsh to call that garbage, no?

As I said in a previous thread, they arent going up against an elite checking line. Theyre allowed to dominate stretches of play. I think they have another gear they need to get to here

 

[tuckerintensity]

The Matthews/Marner line is averaging 23.52 defensive zone faceoffs/60 and have 5 goals scored, 0 against.

The rest of the team without either of them on a line is averaging 13.00/60 and have 5 goals scored and 5 goals against.

Since the start of the 2020 playoffs, Marner now has a 70% 5v5 goal differential. When it comes to actual results, he may well be the most valuable 5v5 forward of the last half decade. The only other forward close would be McDavid but even he doesnt have a differential so far above the rest of his team.

Hey, don't let stats get in the way of a good witch hunt.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Hey, don't let stats get in the way of a good witch hunt.

Just find a stat where Marner doesn't match up well. Like Barkov and compare him to Marner in isolation regardless of position and series.

 

[arso40]

Nylander was not the most impactful, outside of the one assist, Nylander was dreadful. Honestly that might have been the worst game I’ve ever seen Nylander play in the playoffs. Man couldn’t do shit the entire game, couldn’t stay on his feet, can’t win a board battle, shooting into feet. Credit him for the cross seam pass, but he was garbage. Same with Marner, same With Matthews. All three were not good last night.

I don’t know why we need to prop up Nylander to put down Marner and prop up Marner to put down Nylander.

It’s okay to admit they all sucked. What’s not okay is the hyperbolic statements in an attempt to shit on one player.

He set up the opening goal and the tying goal therefore he was the Impactful forward for us

 

[Zybalto]

Just find a stat where Marner doesn't match up well. Like Barkov and compare him to Marner in isolation regardless of position and series.

If I did the same stats as I did a few pages ago and stretched out their playoff stats since 2022 to full season stats:

Marner:
Goals: 20
Points: 91
+/-: Plus 43

Barkov:
Goals: 21
Points: 68
+/-: Plus 9

Barkov has played great in his role and his team has depth for ages and great goaltending.

 

[Leaf Fans]

If I did the same stats as I did a few pages ago and stretched out their playoff stats since 2022 to full season stats:

Marner:
Goals: 20
Points: 91
+/-: Plus 43

Barkov:
Goals: 21
Points: 68
+/-: Plus 9

Barkov has played great in his role and his team has depth for ages and great goaltending.

Sure when you stretch out the stats, but if you were to choose one game or series that makes Marner looks like the worse player, use that.

 

[Zybalto]

Sure when you stretch out the stats, but if you were to choose one game or series that makes Marner looks like the worse player, use that.

Oh, thats easy, when Barkov and Marner went head to head.

In the 5 games:
Marner:
Goals: 1
Points: 3
+/-: Minus 2

Barkov:
Goals: 1
Points: 3
+/-: Plus 3

Both didnt exactly light the world on fire offensively but Barkov kept up his defensive play and Marner flopped.

 

[thewave]

Our teams issue especially Marner has been performing in elimination games.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Oh, thats easy, when Barkov and Marner went head to head.

In the 5 games:
Marner:
Goals: 1
Points: 3
+/-: Minus 2

Barkov:
Goals: 1
Points: 3
+/-: Plus 3

Both didnt exactly light the world on fire offensively but Barkov kept up his defensive play and Marner flopped.

ok, but you didn't look hard enough to find stats to make Marner look poor.

 

[GlitchMarner]

How many defensive zone starts do they have vs offensive zone starts? They also haven’t conceded any goals 5 on 5 and have outscored their opposition. So who cares if they spend a ton of time letting Ottawa have the puck if Ottawa does absolutely nothing with it?

I didn't say they've been bad, and yes, they have held their own in their zone quite well.

But we are talking about a scoring line, not a checking line. You do want your top line to play in the attacking end more.

Berube is getting results so far, but so was Carlyle until he wasn't, and these are like Carlyle era possession numbers (if not worse).

 

[Zybalto]

ok, but you didn't look hard enough to find stats to make Marner look poor.

In playoff elimination games (with a loss, one team can go home) since 2022 playoffs:

Marner:
GP: 10
Goals: 1
Points: 6
+/-: Plus 5

We getting closer?

 

[mclaren55]

I get Marner had a pretty glaring error on the pinch, but let’s not act like last night was on him. Stol let in two shit goals, and our bottom 6 wasn’t exactly inspiring. Plus Rielly (my boy) had his worst game so far.

All in, we are 3-1, far from the time to panic. Sens blew their collective load, bet we win game 5.

 

[Leaf Fans]

In playoff elimination games (with a loss, one team can go home) since 2022 playoffs:

Marner:
GP: 10
Goals: 1
Points: 6
+/-: Plus 5

We getting closer?

No, Marner still looks like he plays well while I am looking for confirmation bias. Don't let facts get in your way.

 

[Antropovsky]

Weakest playoff opponent we've had in the Matthews era. Marners shots per 60 are pathetic, individual expected goals is pathetic....

What would Knies and Matthews stats look like with any other 12 million dollar forward?

How much offense is Marner setting up 5v5 as a playmaker? Better be substantial since he's not a shot threat whatsoever.

Marner has just 3 5v5 shots in 4 games (only 4 total).

 

[ToneDog]

In playoff elimination games (with a loss, one team can go home) since 2022 playoffs:

Marner:
GP: 10
Goals: 1
Points: 6
+/-: Plus 5

We getting closer?

Now try a larger sample size? Seriously why pick 2022 when you can go back much further?

 

[notDatsyuk]

So the thing is that top line gets the hardest matchups and they are doing great defensively but for what they are paid they need to score more when it counts.
Willy gets easier matchups and almost always starts face offs in the ozone.
I think all 4 need to step it up especially relative to what they are paid.

I'm confused about 'top line' and 'toughest matchups'.

The Matthews line was playing against their checking line last night, while the Tavares line was playing against Stutzle, Tkachuk, and Giroux, and both of the beautiful setups by Nylander were against that line.

 

[Zybalto]

Now try a larger sample size? Seriously why pick 2022 when you can go back much further?

Takes a bit of work is all. I figured 4 years is enough (including this one).

Lets go back with elimination games to 2020 then:

GP: 15
Goals: 1
Points: 10
+/-: Plus 5

Trying to watch a hockey game here lol.

 

[therealkoho]

Marner now 2nd in playoff assists in Leafs history.

Playoff Skater Records - Most Assists, Playoff Career | TOR Records

Explore the Toronto Maple Leafs records for Playoff Skater Records, Most Assists, Playoff Career

records.nhl.com

Well that's pretty clear, and Daren Dreger nor Craig Button had any say in it.

I'm actually mildly surprised

 

[therealkoho]

I mean yeah, if you are scoreboard watching. I haven't seen him get crunched once with a big hit or anything nor has he dropped the gloves with Brady.

He gets to go right after St Auston, that is of course if there's anything left of Brady to pummel. Hey what am I talking about here, after watching 34 tear through thr Leagues tough guys, the only thing Brady will drop with St Auston is his drawers and pray that it will all be over quickly.

This thread is full of stupid posts and I figured hey, why not me?

 

[studebaker17]

I'm confused about 'top line' and 'toughest matchups'.

The Matthews line was playing against their checking line last night, while the Tavares line was playing against Stutzle, Tkachuk, and Giroux, and both of the beautiful setups by Nylander were against that line.

Most coaches try hard to match their top offensive line against the Tavares line , willing to trade chances . It usually works .
Then they try and play their top checking line against Mathews . Only exception was Tampa and a reason the Leafs won when they tried to play Kuch head to head against Mathews .
More importantly is who's the top D being matched up against .

 

[Jojalu]

Weakest playoff opponent we've had in the Matthews era. Marners shots per 60 are pathetic, individual expected goals is pathetic....

What would Knies and Matthews stats look like with any other 12 million dollar forward?

How much offense is Marner setting up 5v5 as a playmaker? Better be substantial since he's not a shot threat whatsoever.

Marner has just 3 5v5 shots in 4 games (only 4 total).

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Mon was a weaker team. Even with Price in net.

 

[ToneDog]

Mon was a weaker team. Even with Price in net.

They had a huge D that could box out the Leafs. Sens D is weak in comparison IMO.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Marner has been excellent this series.

 

[Jojalu]

They had a huge D that could box out the Leafs. Sens D is weak in comparison IMO.

That is fair. Mon's D was better overall but Sanderson is better than anyone Mon had.

Ott forwards are better and really only because KK sucked, Caufield was a rookie and Suzuki hadn't become who he is now.