Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Part 3758391849

[666]

In a November game, I'd agree with you. In the playoffs though, winning is the priority.

What? PP luck can run out as these guys have shown in the past. Playing great overcomes luck.
Winning 16 games is the priority and getting outplayed in the first game with a lucky PP isn't.

But this is the Marner thread. You guys finally have a chance to complain about how poor the M&M line played and you ignore it because Marner got some points. You're going to be debating Marners next contract constantly for the next couple of months but you'll ignore the games when he doesn't play great but gets a few points. Of course the focus will be on the games where he doesn't get points even when he does play great. Everything is backwards with the haters.

 

[666]

It's been damn hard to convince people he was actually playing even better than it appeared over this stretch but pretty easy if he has a bunch of points when he hasn't been elite.

I thought actually having an advantage in net for starting goaltending for the first time since Belfour /Lalime would make a difference and so far it has. May this trend continue.

Agreed. I'm convinced some people only focus on points when evaluating players and have no clue about the rest.
Good goaltending and a potent PP could take us far.

 

[IPS]

What? PP luck can run out as these guys have shown in the past. Playing great overcomes luck.
Winning 16 games is the priority and getting outplayed in the first game with a lucky PP isn't.

But this is the Marner thread. You guys finally have a chance to complain about how poor the M&M line played and you ignore it because Marner got some points. You're going to be debating Marners next contract constantly for the next couple of months but you'll ignore the games when he doesn't play great but gets a few points. Of course the focus will be on the games where he doesn't get points even when he does play great. Everything is backwards with the haters.

What's "outplayed" to you?

The Leafs got an early 2 goal lead and forced the Sens to play from behind. Typically the team playing from behind will outchance the team that's ahead, especially in the playoffs. A major problem with advanced stats is they don't account for things like this.

 

[666]

What's "outplayed" to you?

The Leafs got an early 2 goal lead and forced the Sens to play from behind. Typically the team playing from behind will outchance the team that's ahead, especially in the playoffs. A major problem with advanced stats is they don't account for things like this.

A 2 goal lead early is NEVER considered time to let off and defend especially the playoffs and the Leafs didn't. This has nothing to do with stats. The top 6 were not great all game. Nylander was horrific all game. The third line was great most of the game.

 

[IPS]

A 2 goal lead early is NEVER considered time to let off and defend especially the playoffs and the Leafs didn't. This has nothing to do with stats. The top 6 were not great all game. Nylander was horrific all game. The third line was great most of the game.

Good teams know how to walk that line, defending without getting totally shelled when the other team naturally amps up the pressure after they go down early. The complexion of the game changes quite a lot most times with a 2-0 lead, it doesn't look the same as a 0-0 game at all, atleast that's how I'm watching it.

 

[666]

Good teams know how to walk that line, defending without getting totally shelled when the other team naturally amps up the pressure after they go down early. The complexion of the game changes quite a lot most times with a 2-0 lead, it doesn't look the same as a 0-0 game at all, atleast that's how I'm watching it.

It was 2-1 after the first. The Leafs didn't let up, they just didn't play great.

 

[Antropovsky]

Good teams know how to walk that line, defending without getting totally shelled when the other team naturally amps up the pressure after they go down early. The complexion of the game changes quite a lot most times with a 2-0 lead, it doesn't look the same as a 0-0 game at all, atleast that's how I'm watching it.

That was a tough game to read anything from, the game got away from the Sens. However, that was the first playoff game for the majority of their team.

Looking forward to next one.

 

[Gary Nylund]

What? PP luck can run out as these guys have shown in the past. Playing great overcomes luck.
Winning 16 games is the priority and getting outplayed in the first game with a lucky PP isn't.

That's one way of looking at it, here's another (though it's more optimistic so it might not suit you). There's an old saying that in the playoffs, goaltending and special teams are crucial and over the last 8 years, goaltending and special teams have been exactly where our opponents have been better than us. Overall, I agree that we didn't play that great a game but it was good enough to win, and if we won because of special teams and goaltending, that's more than fine with me.

We're going to have to play much better if we're to go deep but I'll take great goaltending and special teams winning game one for us as a good omen. We also won 9 out of our last 10 to finish the season IIRC and played well overall during that stretch so all things considered, I'm just enjoying being up 1-0 and I'm not going to try too hard to find reasons to be unhappy with the team today.

But this is the Marner thread. You guys finally have a chance to complain about how poor the M&M line played and you ignore it because Marner got some points. You're going to be debating Marners next contract constantly for the next couple of months but you'll ignore the games when he doesn't play great but gets a few points. Of course the focus will be on the games where he doesn't get points even when he does play great. Everything is backwards with the haters.

What a strange thing to say - I'm not looking for chances to complain about anything or anyone. There'll be plenty of time to debate Marner's next contract when the playoffs are over but until then, I'm all about the team. As long as we win, I'm happy and I don't care who plays well or who plays poorly, just win.

BTW, in an earlier post you said "the third line was arguably great", not looking to start an argument or anything but IMHO if there was one line that played great for us last night, it was the 4th line.

 

[666]

Overall, I agree that we didn't play that great a game but it was good enough to win, and if we won because of special teams and goaltending, that's more than fine with me.

Then we agree, yet very few haters seem to be pointing it out and you didn't either. If winning is all you care about you sure do spend a lot of time in this thread as opposed to the other core player who are even more responsible for the past loses.

I'm not looking for chances to complain about anything or anyone.

That's strange. Thousands of post complaining about Marner and his contract, Marner flipping it over the boards, Marner after 86 games, Marner and his media relations and even Marner's dad etc. Yes, YOU have complained about all of them and are also are implicitly complicit in that you don't push back on all the other Marner hate since you spend so much time in here. For a guy not looking to complain your sure do complain a lot.

 

[sunstersun]

Good game from the Marner. Two of his assists were kinda gimmies.

The PP being good is a great sign, but 5on5 is where the money is earned.

 

[thewave]

Nine points from the core fore, all of them drove the play at times, absolutely dog walked the Sens on the power play, two of them even killed penalties, ya, they were just OK.

It was ok for vs Sens. Who got rattled right away by poor tending.

 

[Antropovsky]

Interesting stat. Since the beginning of the year 5v5, season and playoffs:

Matthews 1st assists on Marner goals:
6
Marner 1st assists on Matthews goals:
7


Matthews assists on Marner goals:
9
Marner assists on Matthews goals:
10

 

[Gary Nylund]

Then we agree, yet very few haters seem to be pointing it out and you didn't either. If winning is all you care about you sure do spend a lot of time in this thread as opposed to the other core player who are even more responsible for the past loses.

Considering how obsessed you seem to be with my posts, it's odd you haven't noticed that I've posted very little in this thread lately. That's because IMHO there's nothing more to say that hasn't already been said. The team and Marner have had very good season, now the real season has begun and this is not the time for petty bickering. That's just me though, you go ahead and bicker if you feel you need to (and apparently you do).

That's strange. Thousands of post complaining about Marner and his contract,

If you knew how to read, you'd know that I put the blame for his contract on Dubas, not Marner. If you're going to bicker and whine, then at least get your facts straight.

Marner flipping it over the boards,

I don't even know when the last time was anyone mentioned that. You're trying hard to pick a fight, why is that?

Marner after 86 games,

Marner's production after 86 games historically has dropped off a cliff, that's a valid criticism and that's what 99% of my "complaining" is based on. Hopefully he turns it around this year.

Marner and his media relations and even Marner's dad etc. Yes, YOU have complained about all of them

I've said he sucks at addressing the media but that's just stating a fact, not a complaint. Help us win the cup and I couldn't care less what he says to the media. Actually it doesn't matter if we win or lose, who cares about media relations? And his dad, I hardly ever even mention him so I really don't know what you're babbling about. You're trying too hard, the question is why?

and are also are implicitly complicit in that you don't push back on all the other Marner hate since you spend so much time in here.

You are trying so hard my friend. What not give it a rest, and try to be happy?

For a guy not looking to complain your sure do complain a lot.

It's the playoffs and IMHO it's time to support the team, and all our players. You're the one who's doing all the complaining today.

 

[Sypher04]

Anyone complaining about Marner today has lost the plot completely

 

[Gary Nylund]

Anyone complaining about Marner today has lost the plot completely

I may be in the minority here, but complaining about anyone during the playoffs just doesn't feel right. Maybe that's easy for me to say now that we're up 1-0 but still, even if Marner plays the worst game of his career tomorrow and costs us the game, complaining just doesn't seem right until the playoffs are over. In the mean time leave the man alone, and hope he gets his shit together for the next one.

Once it's over, that's the time to re-evaluate everything and everyone and if there's blame to be assessed, that's the time to do it but as long as we're still alive, all our players are Maple Leafs, we're all Maple Leaf fans here so it's all for one and one for all.

GLG!!

 

[Mess]

Anyone complaining about Marner today has lost the plot completely

Diehard Leaf fans cheer for the Crest on the Front and not the name on the back of the jersey.

GO Leafs GO

Mitch found a way to contribute to Leafs success and that's all any Leaf fan should want at this point.

Last year playoffs Marner had 1 goal and 2 assists for 3 points in 7 games in a Leafs round #1 loss, this year he has already matched last year's entire playoff results.

 

[Stephen]

Mitch was throwing his weight around where possible last night. Maybe not thundering hits but those off your feet, back into a guy forechecks are appreciated and every bit helps.

 

[666]

Interesting stat. Since the beginning of the year 5v5, season and playoffs:

Matthews 1st assists on Marner goals:
6
Marner 1st assists on Matthews goals:
7


Matthews assists on Marner goals:
9
Marner assists on Matthews goals:
10

What are you on about now?
First you say Marner depends on Matthews now you're saying he doesn't get enough assists on Matthews goals. Which is it?

Why on earth only use the beginning of the year when you know that the bigger sample the better? Could it be that Marner was in a bit of slump after the 4 nations which is completely over?

For the entire season 5v5:
Marner assisted on more of Knives goals than Matthews'.
Only 29% of Marners assist were on Matthews goals.
Matthews was only involved in 36% of Marners points. Gee I guess Marner doesn't depend on Matthews for his points.
70% of Marners assist on Matthews goals were first assists.

5v5 and all strengths

Marner leads the Leafs in points.
Marner leads the Leafs in primary assists.
Marner leads the Leafs in secondary assists.

You gotta get over it dude. The guy's a 102 point superstar whether you like it or not.

 

[tuckerintensity]

Anyone complaining about Marner today has lost the plot completely

Truth. Honestly, I'm not sure how we're complaining about anyone today save for Gru on the analysis after. There weren't many bad plays last night, let alone bad players.

For the purposes of this thread, very hard agree. Marner was, as he has been a lot this season for us, the best player on the ice (Stolarz being the only one you could actually argue for otherwise, even still, it was Marner).

 

[Hellcat]

No move clauses

NMC and NTC are made to be broken, those things never really concern me much. If my boss repeatedly tells me hey you are not welcomed here, regardless of what my contract says, I'm not hanging around, it creates an awkward and possible toxic relationship. If they come to me once and says hey you want a retirement package? No? Cool, thought a I would ask... then I'm cool with it and to me it's just a courtesy to ask me but multiple times, kind of tells me the writing is on the wall.

If you really want them to waive, there are ways to encourage players with big ego's to waive.

 

[crump]

Keep it going Mitchy

 

[notDatsyuk]

Holy crap, for once I agree with you.
The top 4 were just ok. Of course the PP clicked but the rest of the game they were not "great".
M&M&JT were fine and Nylander was horrific offensively losing / giving up the puck constantly.
The third line was arguably great.
Anyone who thinks that the Leafs played "great" is not watching properly. This is what happens when people only understand points and nothing else.

Yep - Willy with four giveaways and Mitch with just one.

Oops - the other way around.

Time for you to call me a 'hater'?

 

[arso40]

Yep - Willy with four giveaways and Mitch with just one.

Oops - the other way around.

Time for you to call me a 'hater'?

I don’t even understand why after a win in the fashion we won in this guys even bringing up negativity for what?let’s keep the momentum going like my friend @Gary Nylund we can wait til it’s over or until we lose at least

 

[IPS]

A 2 goal lead early is NEVER considered time to let off and defend especially the playoffs and the Leafs didn't. This has nothing to do with stats. The top 6 were not great all game. Nylander was horrific all game. The third line was great most of the game.

So what about last night's EDM vs LA game? Whoever has multi goal leads can absolutely alter the advanced stat lines of the game. You'd be crazy to deny this. Advanced stats do nothing to account for these momentum swings in games.

 

[Gary Nylund]

So what about last night's EDM vs LA game? Whoever has multi goal leads can absolutely alter the advanced stat lines of the game. You'd be crazy to deny this. Advanced stats do nothing to account for these momentum swings in games.

I've said it many times - using advanced stats to measure the performance of individual players is a really bad idea and it's hilarious how some people are absolutely obsessed with them. Production matters. It's not everything, but it's a lot and while the assists Marner got were nothing special, that goal he scored was a very important goal and it was a beauty! If people want to whine about his giveaways or missed assignments or bad passes or poor numbers as far as expected this and expected that goes, IMHO it's just sad that they have nothing better to do. I have no desire to pick apart his play, I thought he played well and whatever the perceived negatives are, I'll just say that that beautiful goal he scored more than made up for all of it.

GLG!!