Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Part 3758391849

[Donnie740]

Our defense is absolutely not better now than two years ago. I hope they prove me wrong though.

You must be confusing Toronto’s 2022-23 defence with another team. For the benefit of you and other revisionist historians, let’s compare then and now.

No change on two of the defence - - Rielly and McCabe. Rielly was playing better then than he is now, but that’s partly offset by the improvement in McCabe’s game from where he was two years ago.

Chris Tanev and Brendon Carlo are light years better than the washed up pair of TJ Brodie and Giordano were.

Luke Schenn was literally out of hockey unwanted by the entire league when Dumbass went dumpster diving and picked him off the scrap heap.

Schenn was hopelessly slow footed but became a folk hero among Leaf “fans” because he stood his ground when Tanner Jeannot and Hagel were calling him mean names. Ekman Larsson is without question a better player than Schenn was, although he’s not got to drop the gloves with anyone.

Justin Holl was God-awful in the 2023 playoffs. On the ice for 75% of the goals against until Bozo The Keefe finally had no choice but to put Holl in the press box. I’m not a big fan of Benoit’s game but he’s obviously a massive improvement on the pitiful pylon Justin Holl.

 

[Donnie740]

NO that’s your order of priority not the leafs LOL

Which is precisely what the poster asked for. My priorities.

Reference Post #467, my friend.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Please tell me you’re not trying to compare a no-talent hack like Mike Bunting with Knies.

Letting Hyman walk - - and refusing to take a draft pick for him - - was an embarrassing mistake by Kyle Dumbass.

Tavares will be 35yrs old when the season starts and his best days are way in the past. Knies will be 23yrs old and his best days are still to come.

Why would you pay more for a player past his prime than for a player who hasn’t yet reached his prime?

Dubas would have taken a draft pick for him. He wouldn't take less than what he thought the cap reduction would have been. Edmonton could have easily sent the 2nd round pick instead of holding out with the 6th.

 

[Leaf Fans]

4nations, where he was dropped to least amount of mins among forwards by game 3. That was because the coach likes his game right?

He was brought back up in the lineup mid to late in game 4 when Cooper thought "Marner had legs"

Hardly the shining endorsement that your portraying it as.

Also, if Marner is alot further from the net in the playoffs than the season, how is his linemates gonna A, find him similar to how they would in season games and B, how is he gonna help th battle in the dirty areas and around the net for the puck?

Read this and tell me your thoughts on how Marner is way worse in the categories in the charts than the other core 4.

Thoughts after Toronto's Game 3 loss: Go to the net, Mitch

Thoughts after Toronto's Game 3 loss: Go to the net, Mitch

After Toronto's Game 3 loss at home to Boston, Justin Bourne shares his takeaways from the game, including how to get Mitch Marner going, why TJ Brodie should draw into the lineup, and more.

www.sportsnet.ca

Go forward Mitch Marner

I mentioned how playing on the goal line might allow Marner the chance to take it to the net, which for him would be a very, very good thing.

When the Leafs lost in last year's playoffs, I wrote about how their core players struggled to get in close to the net. But really, Marner was a wild outlier compared to the other three. These were their average shot distances (measured in feet from the net on average) in last year's playoffs, compared to the regular season:

2 years ago
Distance to net
View attachment 1015588
Slot shots
View attachment 1015590

Last year:

Distance to net
View attachment 1015591

Slot shots:
View attachment 1015592

Clearly, after he round robin loss to the USA, Cooper changed the lines and it was to Marner's detriment . But by the Gold Medal game Marner was a top performer and set up the Gold Medal winning goal.

 

[Stephen]

Dubas would have taken a draft pick for him. He wouldn't take less than what he thought the cap reduction would have been. Edmonton could have easily sent the 2nd round pick instead of holding out with the 6th.

Dubas definitely played his Hyman hand with a factor of spite. Good for him being so petty, but at the same time it shouldn't have gotten to that point as letting Hyman go was not the right play. But to screw over Hyman and Edmonton a little bit? Good for him.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Dubas definitely played his Hyman hand with a factor of spite. Good for him being so petty, but at the same time it shouldn't have gotten to that point as letting Hyman go was not the right play. But to screw over Hyman and Edmonton a little bit? Good for him.

He wasn't petty. He saw the value of cap space and expected Edmonton to pay for it.

 

[ULF_55]

People blame Marner for allowing Pastrnak to sneak behind. Honestly I think that was just 4 players sleeping. You could easily point to Marner, Nylander, Rielly and Samsonov and pick out things they could have done to prevent that entry

You can be at fault for a goal, that doesn't mean you are at fault for the series.

Going to 7 with their top 2 scorers less than 100% and playing less than 60% of their games.

 

[Donnie740]

Dubas definitely played his Hyman hand with a factor of spite. Good for him being so petty, but at the same time it shouldn't have gotten to that point as letting Hyman go was not the right play. But to screw over Hyman and Edmonton a little bit? Good for him.

Ultimately, Dumbass ended up screwing himself by not even getting a 6th round pick.

Where was this “hardline negotiator” when he was getting fleeced in contract negotiations with Marner and Matthews?

 

[Donnie740]

He saw the value of cap space and expected Edmonton to pay for it.

The irony doesn’t get any better than that.

Ryan Graves - - $4.5 AAV for six years
Tristan Jarry - - $5.375 for five years
Erik Karlsson - - $11.5 for four years

 

[Racer88]

If the Leafs get to the Cup, even better win it, the same hardcore Mitch haters will be building a statue of him outside of Scotiabank Arena.

Make no mistake, the animosity towards Marner starts with this team's lack of playoff success. This team wins and instantly the negative narratives around Mitch, Auston, Morgan and the rest do a full 180 and they are enshrined along with Gilmour, Wendel, Borje as Maple Leafs royalty.

If Marner plays well and contributes to leafs playoff success especially a cup of course we will cheer him on. Why wouldn’t we. Many fans that criticize him are honest fans. We criticize him when he deserves it and will certainly cheer him when he deserves it.
What we do not do is blindly put him on pedestal when he has not earned it.

 

[Confucius]

Please tell me you’re not trying to compare a no-talent hack like Mike Bunting with Knies.

Letting Hyman walk - - and refusing to take a draft pick for him - - was an embarrassing mistake by Kyle Dumbass.

Tavares will be 35yrs old when the season starts and his best days are way in the past. Knies will be 23yrs old and his best days are still to come.

Why would you pay more for a player past his prime than for a player who hasn’t yet reached his prime?

This season is his 2nd best ever for number of goals scored, his 74 points are above his avg for the 16 years. So best years way in the past is not true at all.

 

[Gary Nylund]

If Marner plays well and contributes to leafs playoff success especially a cup of course we will cheer him on. Why wouldn’t we. Many fans that criticize him are honest fans. We criticize him when he deserves it and will certainly cheer him when he deserves it.
What we do not do is blindly put him on pedestal when he has not earned it.

When my team plays, I'm always cheering them on. When they play well, it makes me happy and I give them credit and when they play poorly and disappoint, I'm not happy and I have no problem criticizing them. That goes for every single player, and the team as a whole, it seems completely natural to me and I can't imagine doing it any other way. Why some people get so upset and throw around the "hater" label when their favorite player gets some criticism I will never understand.

 

[Gary Nylund]

This season is his 2nd best ever for number of goals scored, his 74 points are above his avg for the 16 years. So best years way in the past is not true at all.

Can't argue with that, he's had a great year! It's hilarious how some people say we shouldn't sign him if he costs a penny over 5 million, guys definitely been worth way more than that this season. I predict he signs with us for a small discount for 3 more years.

 

[Confucius]

Can't argue with that, he's had a great year! It's hilarious how some people say we shouldn't sign him if he costs a penny over 5 million, guys definitely been worth way more than that this season. I predict he signs with us for a small discount for 3 more years.

In JT’s time here Mitch has averaged about 21 points a season more while averaging less goals. A few say JT 5 or bye and a few say Mitch at 14. The discrepancy for the extra points is so laughable.

 

[Gary Nylund]

In JT’s time here Mitch has averaged about 21 points a season more while averaging less goals. A few say JT 5 or bye and a few say Mitch at 14. The discrepancy for the extra points is so laughable.

Yup. I've seen people say that JT is no better than a 3rd line centre, it's really weird.

Mitch as 14 is puke worthy. If he plays like a star in the playoffs I think I'd go as high as 12.9 but I think that's where I'd draw the line. I've heard 7m bandied about for JT and I think that for 3 years would be a very good deal for us.

 

[Dekes For Days]

So he didn’t attempt to trade him is what you’re saying ?

No, he didn't. He told Marner that Carolina wanted to trade for him. It was only being discussed as a last resort to minimize the downgrade if Marner had decided on leaving. The preference is and was always re-signing him.

 

[Donnie740]

This season is his 2nd best ever for number of goals scored, his 74 points are above his avg for the 16 years. So best years way in the past is not true at all.

SIXTEEN (16) years in the league and he’s never once scored 90 points. There’s been a huge drop off in his playoff performance compared to his regular season performance.

He’s only advanced beyond the 1st round of the playoffs TWO (2) times. And never advanced beyond the 2nd round of the playoffs.

Where was the outrage from Leaf “fans” when Tavares got his contract for 13.84% of the cap?

 

[Legion34]

Him constantly getting the blame, rightly or wrongly, for past failures including heavily last year, is why I think he'll be out the door.

I don't think he has any interest in flirting with that happening again and again in the future.

Then why demand to stay?
Last summer he easily could have moved. Got 8 years. Got an extension.

What can be possibly learn in the next 2 months that he couldn’t have in the past 8 years.

 

[Tak7]

Then why demand to stay?
Last summer he easily could have moved. Got 8 years. Got an extension.

What can be possibly learn in the next 2 months that he couldn’t have in the past 8 years.

He didn't demand to stay - they never attempted to move him. And if his goal is to test free agency, of course he's going to stay: play another full season attached to Matthews hip, a season after he scored 69 goals, all but guaranteeing you ride a 100 point season into free agency?

Made too much sense.

I suspect he ends up in Carolina as a UFA

 

[Confucius]

SIXTEEN (16) years in the league and he’s never once scored 90 points. There’s been a huge drop off in his playoff performance compared to his regular season performance.

He’s only advanced beyond the 1st round of the playoffs TWO (2) times. And never advanced beyond the 2nd round of the playoffs.

Where was the outrage from Leaf “fans” when Tavares got his contract for 13.84% of the cap?

There was no outrage because he came at no cost to the club. How much is that worth? We didn’t have to give up a single player or a single draft pick. He was a 1st overall pick. Try and buy a 1st overall pick (if it was allowed) how much would that cost? Easily 10 million.

 

[Antropovsky]

He didn't demand to stay - they never attempted to move him. And if his goal is to test free agency, of course he's going to stay: play another full season attached to Matthews hip, a season after he scored 69 goals, all but guaranteeing you ride a 100 point season into free agency?

Made too much sense.

I suspect he ends up in Carolina as a UFA

If he wants a 3-4 year to be like Matthews, then he wont be going to Carolina, especially after he saw Rantanens numbers there. Imo its Leaf or bust for him, he just is holding out for the short term deal. Which is precisely what his hold out last time was over. BUT if Leafs walk away, I think he only goes somewhere where he will have a #1 center to support him in order for him to maximize again in 3-4 years.

 

[Legion34]

He didn't demand to stay - they never attempted to move him. And if his goal is to test free agency, of course he's going to stay: play another full season attached to Matthews hip, a season after he scored 69 goals, all but guaranteeing you ride a 100 point season into free agency?

Made too much sense.

I suspect he ends up in Carolina as a UFA

1.) He made it clear last year he had no intention of accepting a trade. This was widely reported all last summer

2.) he easily could have said these are the teams I want to go to. And worked out a deal
Sign an 8 year extension like rantanen just did. He committed with 0 games.


3.) he was coming off a 30 goal 99 pt season. You think a 100 pt season makes that much difference

4.) he risked injury. Is now moving a newborn and he loses the 8th year.

What about any of that makes sense?

 

[Legion34]

If he wants a 3-4 year to be like Matthews, then he wont be going to Carolina, especially after he saw Rantanens numbers there. Imo its Leaf or bust for him, he just is holding out for the short term deal. Which is precisely what his hold out last time was over. BUT if Leafs walk away, I think he only goes somewhere where he will have a #1 center to support him in order for him to maximize again in 3-4 years.

To me LA makes the most sense.
They have tons of space. Need a scoring winger.

Only question is their C depth after kopitar. Although you could say the same about Tavares

 

[Confucius]

To me LA makes the most sense.
They have tons of space. Need a scoring winger.

Only question is their C depth after kopitar. Although you could say the same about Tavares

I think it Dubas and the Pens, or I can see the Islanders getting their Karma moment

 

[Tak7]

If he wants a 3-4 year to be like Matthews, then he wont be going to Carolina. Imo its Leaf or bust for him. BUT if Leafs walk away, I think he only goes somewhere where he will have a #1 center to support him.

He'll be 28 in the summer - he won't want a 3-4 year deal, but a 7 year deal.

Given he won't be getting the extra year from Toronto, that pushes his AAV expectations to $14m.

The Hurricanes have been after a superstar for a while now. They thought they were doing the cheeky offer-sheet thing and potentially getting a high potential one in Kotkaniemi, before that flopped.

They went hard after Guentzel, and nearly had him resigned, last summer. They were all over the Canucks on Pettersson and JT Miller earlier this year. They made a bold move on Rantanen and tried to get an extension done.

They are big game hunting. Marner fits that roster's age profile too. It seems like too obvious a fit for me.