Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Part 3758391849

[Dekes For Days]

Lets not forget Treliving attempted to trade him at the Trade deadline

No he didn't. Treliving wanted to sign him.

 

[Donnie740]

What are your off-season targets?

In order of priority:

1. Re-sign Mitch Marner at anything under $14M AAV

2. Re-sign Matt Knies at anything under $7M AAV

3. Sign Tanner Jeannot at anything under $2M AAV

4. Sign Nick Perbix at anything under $1.5M AAV

5. Re-sign John Tavares at anything under $5M AAV

6. Dump Calle JarnCrap on someone in exchange for a roll of tape

7. Dump Dave Kampf on someone for a broken hockey stick

 

[666]

If you think I’m wrong, then challenge the actual points. Use advanced stats.

You clearly don't watch the games or at least not properly as your eye test seems to miss a lot.

What you should be seeing in the playoff and what we saw in the 4 nations was that Marner still sets up his linemates about as much as usual (adjusting for the tighter style of play). His elite playmaking skills are being wasted by his linemates missing their scoring chances.

Matthews regular season (605 games) sh% 15.9%
Matthews playoffs (55 games) sh% : 9.8%
Matthews last 3 games of playoffs in last 4 seasons (12 games) sh% 4.25%

I'll let you look up the advanced stats (so that you'll learn how to use them properly) but the summary is that Matthews gets about 70% less goals with a 73% lower shooting percentage while only having a 20% reduction in shots and scoring chances. All of this while actually getting more high danger scoring chances. Who do you think is setting Matthews up for all of those high danger scoring chances that he's missing? No who understands the game expects Marner to be leading in scoring chances, he's a playmaker. But you tell me why Matthews get the chances but they don't go in.

Go ahead present us with Matthews advanced stats in the playoffs. I dare you.

 

[666]

In order of priority:

1. Re-sign Mitch Marner at anything under $14M AAV

2. Re-sign Matt Knies at anything under $7M AAV

3. Sign Tanner Jeannot at anything under $2M AAV

4. Sign Nick Perbix at anything under $1.5M AAV

5. Re-sign John Tavares at anything under $5M AAV

6. Dump Calle JarnCrap on someone in exchange for a roll of tape

7. Dump Dave Kampf on someone for a broken hockey stick

Now of course term matters but there is no way Knives > JT.

 

[Menzinger]

Now of course term matters but there is no way Knives > JT.

Knies is much more important to the future of the franchise than a guy the team may let walk even if he's willing to extend

 

[666]

O'Dog only 40%, wow that's interesting (and surprising). Did he say that's because he thinks the Leafs won't have playoff success or because he thinks Marner will want to leave?

The fact that adults call this guy O'Dog is embarrassing and very cringe but it does explain a lot about how some of you form your opinions.
You guys need to learn how to get a PVR. Then you can fast forward through all of the commercials and the talking heads and intermission crap and form your own opinions.

 

[Leafsfan74]

No he didn't. Treliving wanted to sign him.

I would have tried to trade him too. This is strictly business and the core have been made very wealthy and treated like gold for being stars here.

Win a Cup and silence everyone, including me. I will be the first to advocate for the entire team coming back if they win a Cup. Otherwise, obtain those players who can get it done.

This team seems as primed as ever so let us see how it all shakes out

 

[francis246]

The fact that adults call this guy O'Dog is embarrassing and very cringe but it does explain a lot about how some of you form your opinions.
You guys need to learn how to get a PVR. Then you can fast forward through all of the commercials and the talking heads and intermission crap and form your own opinions.

A lot of those shows are heavily produced now. The quiz is very produced. So I don’t take anything said on there seriously.

They have a formula. One person has to be outlandish, one person the homer and one person the voice of reason.

 

[666]

Knies is much more important to the future of the franchise than a guy the team may let walk even if he's willing to extend

We got rid of Hands and Bunting when they wanted too much. If the price is right Knives should stay but he's not a better player than JT.

 

[francis246]

Last year?

I must have missed that.

From my recollection last year was blamed on health issues.

If the team had Matthews and Nylander for all the games it could have been different.

Who was going to score without their top 2 scorers Nylander and Matthews?

People blame Marner for allowing Pastrnak to sneak behind. Honestly I think that was just 4 players sleeping. You could easily point to Marner, Nylander, Rielly and Samsonov and pick out things they could have done to prevent that entry

 

[ACC1224]

Lets not forget Treliving attempted to trade him at the Trade deadline, that was management's POV just a month ago.

The only reason he is still a Leaf today is the NMC that Dubas gave him. Come July 1st there will be no more NMC in the picture.

You make it sound like Marner has all the leverage in this negotiation with a GM that was already prepared to move on and controls the purse strings. Marner has the control to say yes or no to the contract that Treliving offers him, assuming there is one.

I believe the results of the Leafs and Marner in the playoffs will dictate a large part in the outcome. IMO

Wrong, that was Nylander he tried to trade. I thought you followed this team?

 

[Menzinger]

We got rid of Hands and Bunting when they wanted too much. If the price is right Knives should stay but he's not a better player than JT.

Knies can potentially be a fixture of the top six for the next 12 or so years. JT is better right now. He's also about to be 35, and there's no escaping age.

 

[Antropovsky]

You clearly don't watch the games or at least not properly as your eye test seems to miss a lot.

What you should be seeing in the playoff and what we saw in the 4 nations was that Marner still sets up his linemates about as much as usual (adjusting for the tighter style of play). His elite playmaking skills are being wasted by his linemates missing their scoring chances.

Matthews regular season (605 games) sh% 15.9%
Matthews playoffs (55 games) sh% : 9.8%
Matthews last 3 games of playoffs in last 4 seasons (12 games) sh% 4.25%

I'll let you look up the advanced stats (so that you'll learn how to use them properly) but the summary is that Matthews gets about 70% less goals with a 73% lower shooting percentage while only having a 20% reduction in shots and scoring chances. All of this while actually getting more high danger scoring chances. Who do you think is setting Matthews up for all of those high danger scoring chances that he's missing? No who understands the game expects Marner to be leading in scoring chances, he's a playmaker. But you tell me why Matthews get the chances but they don't go in.

Go ahead present us with Matthews advanced stats in the playoffs. I dare you.

4nations, where he was dropped to least amount of mins among forwards by game 3. That was because the coach likes his game right?

He was brought back up in the lineup mid to late in game 4 when Cooper thought "Marner had legs"

Hardly the shining endorsement that your portraying it as.

Also, if Marner is alot further from the net in the playoffs than the season, how is his linemates gonna A, find him similar to how they would in season games and B, how is he gonna help th battle in the dirty areas and around the net for the puck?

Read this and tell me your thoughts on how Marner is way worse in the categories in the charts than the other core 4.

Thoughts after Toronto's Game 3 loss: Go to the net, Mitch

Thoughts after Toronto's Game 3 loss: Go to the net, Mitch

After Toronto's Game 3 loss at home to Boston, Justin Bourne shares his takeaways from the game, including how to get Mitch Marner going, why TJ Brodie should draw into the lineup, and more.

www.sportsnet.ca

Go forward Mitch Marner

I mentioned how playing on the goal line might allow Marner the chance to take it to the net, which for him would be a very, very good thing.

When the Leafs lost in last year's playoffs, I wrote about how their core players struggled to get in close to the net. But really, Marner was a wild outlier compared to the other three. These were their average shot distances (measured in feet from the net on average) in last year's playoffs, compared to the regular season:

2 years ago
Distance to net

Slot shots

Last year:

Distance to net

Slot shots:

 

[Gary Nylund]

The fact that adults call this guy O'Dog is embarrassing and very cringe but it does explain a lot about how some of you form your opinions.

How so?

You guys need to learn how to get a PVR. Then you can fast forward through all of the commercials and the talking heads and intermission crap and form your own opinions.

I have the patience to wait a few minutes here and there, it's not that big a deal and I think I'm not alone when I say I prefer to watch the games live. I always form my own opinions, I would assume most people do the same.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I would have tried to trade him too. This is strictly business and the core have been made very wealthy and treated like gold for being stars here.

Win a Cup and silence everyone, including me. I will be the first to advocate for the entire team coming back if they win a Cup. Otherwise, obtain those players who can get it done.

This team seems as primed as ever so let us see how it all shakes out

The team looks great. I really liked them 2 years ago as well but this year our goaltending is better so ... I like this team better. Two years ago we won 1 round then fizzled out, hopefully we can go a lot farther this time.

 

[Donnie740]

We got rid of Hands and Bunting when they wanted too much. If the price is right Knives should stay but he's not a better player than JT.

Please tell me you’re not trying to compare a no-talent hack like Mike Bunting with Knies.

Letting Hyman walk - - and refusing to take a draft pick for him - - was an embarrassing mistake by Kyle Dumbass.

Tavares will be 35yrs old when the season starts and his best days are way in the past. Knies will be 23yrs old and his best days are still to come.

Why would you pay more for a player past his prime than for a player who hasn’t yet reached his prime?

 

[Donnie740]

The team looks great. I really liked them 2 years ago as well but this year our goaltending is better so ... I like this team better. Two years ago we won 1 round then fizzled out, hopefully we can go a lot farther this time.

This year’s team is infinitely superior to the 2022-23 team on every level imaginable.

Better goaltending, better defense, better forwards and a MUCH better coach.

 

[Gary Nylund]

This year’s team is infinitely superior to the 2022-23 team on every level imaginable.

Better goaltending, better defense, better forwards and a MUCH better coach.

Gio and Brodie were still quality players, Rielly was a playoff beast, Schenn played amazing for us, so did McCabe, I think people have forgotten how good our D was. Maybe now it's better, maybe not but it's close.

Forwards were pretty good too, don't forget what a huge TDL add ROR was.

 

[authentic]

Eichel is not better than Marner. If you just look at stats it’s not close. You can’t use the championship thing when comparing two players, Eichel literally forced his way out of Buffalo onto a team that went 10 million dollars over the cap to win and abused LTIR. Good on him for winning but that’s a team accomplishment. If you’re looking objectively and just the two players Marner is better and far more consistent. Eichel has started to figure it out post neck surgery though.

I think the two are super close, Eichel was a beast in their Cup run.

 

[authentic]

Gio and Brodie were still quality players, Rielly was a playoff beast, Schenn played amazing for us, so did McCabe, I think people have forgotten how good our D was. Maybe now it's better, maybe not but it's close.

Forwards were pretty good too, don't forget what a huge TDL add ROR was.

Our defense is absolutely not better now than two years ago. I hope they prove me wrong though.

 

[1specter]

Our defense is absolutely not better now than two years ago. I hope they prove me wrong though.

Tanev+Carlo+OEL+Benoit are 100% better than the 2023 group of Schenn+Brodie+Gio+Lily/Gus (Gio in particular was cooked come playoffs and lost his job to Liljegren who also kinda sucked). On the surface it looks like 2025 Rielly is not as good as 2023 Rielly, but at the same time McCabe is in his peak right now playing legitimate top pairing D whereas he was still adjusting to the team in 2023 and was more of a 3/4 at that time.

Now if you want to argue against the 2022 blue line, that's a more difficult comparison because we still had an effective Muzzin, Gio was still playing at a high level, Rielly was in his prime, Brodie was playing at a high level as well, Boosh was a decent complimentary D. Holl was the weak link, don't care what the analytics said he got cooked in the playoffs over and over again.

 

[arso40]

No he didn't. Treliving wanted to sign him.

So he didn’t attempt to trade him is what you’re saying ? cause we are all aware that he did marner is even aware as he stated in the post game scrum

 

[arso40]

In order of priority:

1. Re-sign Mitch Marner at anything under $14M AAV

2. Re-sign Matt Knies at anything under $7M AAV

3. Sign Tanner Jeannot at anything under $2M AAV

4. Sign Nick Perbix at anything under $1.5M AAV

5. Re-sign John Tavares at anything under $5M AAV

6. Dump Calle JarnCrap on someone in exchange for a roll of tape

7. Dump Dave Kampf on someone for a broken hockey stick

NO that’s your order of priority not the leafs LOL

 

[arso40]

You clearly don't watch the games or at least not properly as your eye test seems to miss a lot.

What you should be seeing in the playoff and what we saw in the 4 nations was that Marner still sets up his linemates about as much as usual (adjusting for the tighter style of play). His elite playmaking skills are being wasted by his linemates missing their scoring chances.

Matthews regular season (605 games) sh% 15.9%
Matthews playoffs (55 games) sh% : 9.8%
Matthews last 3 games of playoffs in last 4 seasons (12 games) sh% 4.25%

I'll let you look up the advanced stats (so that you'll learn how to use them properly) but the summary is that Matthews gets about 70% less goals with a 73% lower shooting percentage while only having a 20% reduction in shots and scoring chances. All of this while actually getting more high danger scoring chances. Who do you think is setting Matthews up for all of those high danger scoring chances that he's missing? No who understands the game expects Marner to be leading in scoring chances, he's a playmaker. But you tell me why Matthews get the chances but they don't go in.

Go ahead present us with Matthews advanced stats in the playoffs. I dare you.

Teams literally double team Matthews and cheat off of marner who’s usually around the perimeter and avoiding shooting unless it’s for a deflection or a tip

 

[arso40]

Wrong, that was Nylander he tried to trade. I thought you followed this team?

You too so he didn’t try to trade marner you guys need to lay off whatever has you in lala land it’s okay to admit doesn’t mean he isnt a great player hell it doesn’t even mean they didn’t want to sign him