Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Part 3758391849

[ACC1224]

What if Mitch and his agent dig in for $14 mil, is there a way that he does not come back at that number?

I'm not sure what he/they value his contract at.
If he leaves it will be his choosing not theirs, that would include pricing himself out of the market.

 

[Tak7]

I didn't say "he will cave", just that if the Leafs don't, he will. I think it's more likely that the Leafs cave (or they meet in the middle somewhere) so it won't come to that anyway.

I don't read the Athletic and I didn't watch the post game so perhaps you have some insight that I don't, I still think he stays though for reasons I've expounded on before and all we know for certain, is that nothing's certain at this point. Two former Leafs put the chances of him staying at 40% and 80%, if it was so obvious Marner's leaving you'd think they wouldn't be so optimistic so maybe they know something you don't?

Kypreos is a former Leaf who is much closer to the Leafs/Marner camp than the ones you listened to last night, and he's said for a while that he doesn't think Marner is coming back. Thinks the only thing that might change his mind, is a long cup run. Bourne, who worked with the organization, think he's gones.

Many who cover the team closely think he's gone.

One former Leaf saying 80%, really pales in comparison to the growing number of people who don't think he'll be back.

 

[tuckerintensity]

His article in The Athletic 3 weeks ago was so informative as well; despite being given ample opportunity to lay easy PR lines about wanting to be a Leaf, he doubled down on the criticism and how it's overwhelmingly negative here.

It was not. It was written with the author's thoughts more than Marner's words. The writer led you down the path that gets the most chatter, not his actual words (which we're basically that he's not going to talk about that stuff, they are all here to play hockey.")

I don't know if he stays, but his most recent action on the matter was rejecting the offer to be traded and his most recent words on the matter were that he wants to be here.

 

[Racer88]

The Leafs will make it past the third round, but people still won't shut up about him.

How do you know that, as such a thing has never happened

 

[ULF_55]

And those players also have to want to be maple leafs to even make it work.

Of course they have to want to sign.

But I've heard players chase the dollar.

If marner isn't in tow, who is going overpay as much as the Leafs?

And I have no idea what other players think of Matthews. As a winger, would you want to have Matthews as your center?

 

[Evilhomer]

How do you know that, as such a thing has never happened

Because the Eastern Conference has degraded to the point where the leafs are now the best team in it. Washington has obviously had a great season, but I don't think they have a lineup, as of now, that is capable of a deep playoff run. The Leafs now do. What happens when they get to the final is a different story, because playing teams like Vegas or Colorado is a different matter.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Kypreos is a former Leaf who is much closer to the Leafs/Marner camp than the ones you listened to last night, and he's said for a while that he doesn't think Marner is coming back. Thinks the only thing that might change his mind, is a long cup run. Bourne, who worked with the organization, think he's gones.

Many who cover the team closely think he's gone.

One former Leaf saying 80%, really pales in comparison to the growing number of people who don't think he'll be back.

It's not just one former Leaf, there are many people who think he'll stay. The team looks so good right now, if they win two rounds this city will go berserk and the atmosphere will be such that Marner won't even consider leaving. That of course is JMHO.

It was not. It was written with the author's thoughts more than Marner's words. The writer led you down the path that gets the most chatter, not his actual words (which we're basically that he's not going to talk about that stuff, they are all here to play hockey.")

I don't know if he stays, but his most recent action on the matter was rejecting the offer to be traded and his most recent words on the matter were that he wants to be here.

Haha so cool, two people read the same thing, and interpret it completely differently. But good to hear your take and I've said this before, I don't follow sports media so I don't know what people are writing but like you said, Marner's actual words are that he wants to be here, that has to count for something.

I'm getting sucked in again, starting to believe in this team again. Then again, it's not the same team any more is it? Carlo has really solidified the defence, we have a new coach and I say this tongue in cheek but who knows, we may even have a new and improved version of Marner, now that would be HUGE!

I was having similar thoughts 2 years ago so trying not to get too carried away and not get ahead of myself but these last few game have looked so good, I'm having fantasies about getting revenge on Florida in round 2. GLG!!

 

[Tak7]

It was not. It was written with the author's thoughts more than Marner's words. The writer led you down the path that gets the most chatter, not his actual words (which we're basically that he's not going to talk about that stuff, they are all here to play hockey.")

I don't know if he stays, but his most recent action on the matter was rejecting the offer to be traded and his most recent words on the matter were that he wants to be here.

"There are probably people out there with their opinions on it, but that's why we don't really give a sh** about what people say".

and

"I think there's a lot more negative than positive stuff constantly."

Those are Marner's words when asked about expectations in the marketplace. That's not the authors thoughts, or the author leading us down a path. Those are a player's comments.

He was also given plenty of opportunity to discuss his future, and he couldn't muster a single "I want to be a Leaf forever" or "I love being a Leaf".

Start adding all this stuff up, if you haven't already.

 

[francis246]

"There are probably people out there with their opinions on it, but that's why we don't really give a sh** about what people say".

and

"I think there's a lot more negative than positive stuff constantly."

Those are Marner's words when asked about expectations in the marketplace. That's not the authors thoughts, or the author leading us down a path. Those are a player's comments.

He was also given plenty of opportunity to discuss his future, and he couldn't muster a single "I want to be a Leaf forever" or "I love being a Leaf".

Start adding all this stuff up, if you haven't already.

He’s definitely going to wait for the response post playoffs. If the failure is blamed on him, he’ll be out of here IMO

 

[Gary Nylund]

He’s definitely going to wait for the response post playoffs. If the failure is blamed on him, he’ll be out of here IMO

It won't be. He's responsible for his own performance, that's all. And even if he plays like crap, he won't be the only person taking flak. The failures of this team have never been put on Marner alone, that's just a BS strawman parroted by some of the sheep around here.

That said, if he plays poorly and we lose, he'll get his fair share of blame and if he can't take the heat, it's probably best for everyone that he gets out of the kitchen as it were.

 

[29Potvin]

Kypreos is a former Leaf who is much closer to the Leafs/Marner camp than the ones you listened to last night, and he's said for a while that he doesn't think Marner is coming back. Thinks the only thing that might change his mind, is a long cup run. Bourne, who worked with the organization, think he's gones.

Many who cover the team closely think he's gone.

One former Leaf saying 80%, really pales in comparison to the growing number of people who don't think he'll be back.

Same Kypreos that said Matthews would leave as a UFA or wanted 15+ mil per?
Kyper is a hack and most of the reliable guys have said it will depend on the playoffs.
Both said should be happy with that.
If the Leafs flame out vs the Sens we need big change and if Mitch flames out it will be best for him and his family if he moves on.
Lets hope for a big run and fair contract come the end of June

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

I get your logic but how long do you run back the same core and expect different results? If they go deep, he will want to stay and the Leafs will want to sign him. If not, let him test the market and see what is out there and if there are other options that make sense. You can double back if he remains unsigned. Running it back is insane if they are 1-9 or 2-9 after these playoffs and should not be an option IMO.

It is crazy to sign Mitchy if he stinks it up in the playoffs again...but at the same time, you can have the asset to trade him should things go into the sewer in a few years. The only way out of this overpayment to the 2 amigo's is to let them go at some point. I just hope Knies isn't infected with the AM and MM disease. I don't consider Willy in that greedy group because he outperformed his last contract and is still not crazily over paid even at 11.5M per year when he scores 45 and plays with a rotating cast of left wingers.

 

[Tak7]

Same Kypreos that said Matthews would leave as a UFA or wanted 15+ mil per?
Kyper is a hack and most of the reliable guys have said it will depend on the playoffs.
Both said should be happy with that.
If the Leafs flame out vs the Sens we need big change and if Mitch flames out it will be best for him and his family if he moves on.
Lets hope for a big run and fair contract come the end of June

I don't listen to Kypreos generally, but in this case it doesn't sound like he's speculating in the same way as he was with Matthews.

This sounds more in line with him knowing stuff, and is in keeping with what others have said about the situation as well. Feels like he knows more than he's letting on right now. I also find it interesting that the others on his show have slowly come over to this side in terms of how the Marner thing plays out - specifically Bourne.

They believe him.

 

[Tak7]

He’s definitely going to wait for the response post playoffs. If the failure is blamed on him, he’ll be out of here IMO

Him constantly getting the blame, rightly or wrongly, for past failures including heavily last year, is why I think he'll be out the door.

I don't think he has any interest in flirting with that happening again and again in the future.

 

[Confucius]

It is crazy to sign Mitchy if he stinks it up in the playoffs again...but at the same time, you can have the asset to trade him should things go into the sewer in a few years. The only way out of this overpayment to the 2 amigo's is to let them go at some point. I just hope Knies isn't infected with the AM and MM disease. I don't consider Willy in that greedy group because he outperformed his last contract and is still not crazily over paid even at 11.5M per year when he scores 45 and plays with a rotating cast of left wingers.

He won’t accept not having a nmc, so you never would be able to use him as an asset. If we overpay he’ll stay, if I were the GM I wouldn’t overpay.

 

[Donnie740]

???? Dare to dream?

View attachment 1015354

Phil Myers and Noah Chadwick as the #5 and #6 defencemen?

That’s not a “dream” - - it’s an absolute nightmare, my friend.

Just to bring in the washed up Jamie Benny and the comically overrated Sammy Bennett?

That’s an NHL ‘25 video game line up.

 

[Jacquestrapless]

Phil Myers and Noah Chadwick as the #5 and #6 defencemen?

That’s not a “dream” - - it’s an absolute nightmare, my friend.

Just to bring in the washed up Jamie Benny and the comically overrated Sammy Bennett?

That’s an NHL ‘25 video game line up.

What are your off-season targets?

 

[Anthrax442]

Bookmarking this one lol

lack of playoff success is my only beef with his overpriced ass. I couldnt care less about anything else once they show that they can deliver.

 

[Anthrax442]

The Leafs will make it past the third round, but people still won't shut up about him.

I can only speak for myself.

 

[DarkKnight]

His performance at Four Nations has to help him psychologically, in terms of something to draw on in big moments and actually having success. Also, he did seem to come through more in key moments this season, so I find that encouraging as well. Some good signs anyways that maybe this will be a different playoffs.

 

[Mess]

I'm not sure what he/they value his contract at.
If he leaves it will be his choosing not theirs, that would include pricing himself out of the market.

Lets not forget Treliving attempted to trade him at the Trade deadline, that was management's POV just a month ago.

The only reason he is still a Leaf today is the NMC that Dubas gave him. Come July 1st there will be no more NMC in the picture.

You make it sound like Marner has all the leverage in this negotiation with a GM that was already prepared to move on and controls the purse strings. Marner has the control to say yes or no to the contract that Treliving offers him, assuming there is one.

I believe the results of the Leafs and Marner in the playoffs will dictate a large part in the outcome. IMO

 

[Antropovsky]

Thank you for your confirmation of just outright being a hater! Hopefully it’s clear for everyone and like many have said, it’s okay to not like players but you have a clear bias against the guy for no reason.

And it confirms what I’ve posted before, Marner playing well and the Leafs winning would be worst case scenario for you. You’d literally crash out. I do not consider you a fan IMO

How old are you?

I'll keep this simple because you are having much difficulty understanding.

So when I make decisions, I look at all the available data.

Take Tavares, for example last playoffs:

Tavares:
Stat sheet says - Didn't score much

Advanced stats – led the league in high-danger shots round 1 (or among top). Shot distance and slot shot % hardly changed from season to playoffs.

Eye test – Tavares doesn’t always have the “snot” I’d like, but he battles in the corners and spends more time in front of the net than almost anyone else in the NHL. He was finishing his checks.

- plays one of most important positions on ice.
- very professional with media.

Now let’s look at Marner:

Stat sheet says - Doesn’t score

Advanced stats among the worst in the league for high danger shots, distance from net, individual scoring chances, individual high danger chances, individual expected goals. Across all shot location metrics from the regular season to the playoffs, Mitch clearly ranked the worst among the Core Four; He consistently positioned himself furthest from the net and took the fewest slot shots by a wide margin.

Eye test: Not competing, never in front of net, never in corners, never finishing hits. Two sports networks do intermission segments highlighting Marners pathetic efforts. Videos of Marner pulling the chute to avoid hits circulate the web, separated by 5 years. Numerous former players on social media say he's too soft and won't pay the price to win.

- Plays easiest position on ice

- gets confrontation with media, says dumb things and gets rattled easily

Same with how I evaluate Eichel vs Marner.

Eichel is a great shooter, excellent skater, great passer, big center, he battles etc etc. Most importantly he plays with significantly less offensively skilled players than Marner. Tulsky research indicates linemates have biggest effect on a players production. I've said many times,

If you think I’m wrong, then challenge the actual points. Use advanced stats. Use video. Use articles. I’ve done the homework.

Instead, you're defaulting to personal attacks—because deep down, you know you don’t have a counterargument. If it were easy to poke holes in what I’ve laid out, you would’ve done it by now.

So either bring real analysis to the table, or admit you’re just reacting emotionally.

 

[Leaf Fans]

He's not resigning - the behavior of both sides around the deadline/Rantanen situation was extremely indicative of where both parties are at.

I've said since last summer that I expect him to leave. He's as good as gone now.

I don't think think there was any indication of that at the deadline. The possibility of him leaving is still there, but it is not a foregone conclusion.

 

[Racer88]

Because the Eastern Conference has degraded to the point where the leafs are now the best team in it. Washington has obviously had a great season, but I don't think they have a lineup, as of now, that is capable of a deep playoff run. The Leafs now do. What happens when they get to the final is a different story, because playing teams like Vegas or Colorado is a different matter.

Sad that the east had to degrade so much as to make the Leafs relevant in the playoffs…………..sad for the Leafs and sad for us

 

[ULF_55]

Him constantly getting the blame, rightly or wrongly, for past failures including heavily last year, is why I think he'll be out the door.

I don't think he has any interest in flirting with that happening again and again in the future.

Last year?

I must have missed that.

From my recollection last year was blamed on health issues.

If the team had Matthews and Nylander for all the games it could have been different.

Who was going to score without their top 2 scorers Nylander and Matthews?