Mitch Marner discussion thread continued ..

[Mess]

Former thread is full so he is a new one to continue the discussion.

Click to read more...

 

[mydnyte]

he's been meh

 

[VanW27]

Good defense, good on the draw and strong PK work from Marner and Matthews, working hard and not giving up anything defensively but not getting much of anything offensively. Essentially they're giving us Riley Nash and Ilya Mikheyev but for the low-low price of 22 million dollars.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Mitch is a great kid but he lacks foot speed and strength on puck and on man .. he has to play and solid hockey IQ game using his dipsy doodle plays on da stops/starts to get guys off him .. but he will always be a great apples man in da regular season and a very weak contributor in da playoffs

 

[MarMarSab3]

Looks extremely slow, need much more out of him.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Looks extremely slow, need much more out of him.

One great man once told me "you can't ask someone to do something they have no skills to accomplish" .. Mitch unfortunately does not have straight away foot speed .. again Leafs have not developed that skill either in him which he is lacking .. it is a short stride issue exact same one as Sandin has .. needs to lengthen his stride to compete in faster playoff games at NHL level

 

[Mess]

That last time Marner scored a NHL playoff goal was game #1 of the Boston series in the 2018-2019 playoffs, when in fact he had 2 in a Leafs 4-1 to open the series.

Since then he has gone 6 games in that Boston series, + 5 games in the CBJ series last year and +5 games in this years series for a total of 16 games without a goal.

During that same 16 game span he has managed only 10 assists also, which included 9 Leaf losses as a result.

The gradual decline of Mitch Marner ..

2016-17 in 6 games = 1-3-4 points
2017-18 in 7 games = 2-7-9 points
2018-19 in 7 games = 2-2-4 points (both goals coming in game #1)
2019-20 in 5 games = 0-4-4 points
2020-21 in 5 games = 0-4-4 points

His 1st X 14 playoff games = 5 goals 10 assists 15 points, and last 16 X playoff games = 0-10- 10 points.

One could say he is due for a big point production burst, or one could also say the older he gets and more playoff experience he gains the less impact he makes on a playoff series.

 

[Hogan86]

The Avs, Bruins, Jets etc. star players are getting it done.

It's time for Mitch and Auston to steal some games for us. I feel like they played pretty well until game 3. And they have both been ineffective since. It's now their 5th trip to the playoffs, so there are no excuses anymore.

Come on boys, bring it home in game 6!

 

[JT AM da real deal]

That last time Marner scored a NHL playoff goal was game #1 of the Boston series in the 2018-2019 playoffs, when in fact he had 2 in a Leafs 4-1 to open the series.

Since then he has gone 6 games in that Boston series, + 5 games in the CBJ series last year and +5 games in this years series for a total of 16 games without a goal.

During that same 16 game span he has managed only 10 assists also, which included 9 Leaf losses as a result.

The gradual decline of Mitch Marner ..

2016-17 in 6 games = 1-3-4 points
2017-18 in 7 games = 2-7-9 points
2018-19 in 7 games = 2-2-4 points (both goals coming in game #1)
2019-20 in 5 games = 0-4-4 points
2020-21 in 5 games = 0-4-4 points

His 1st X 14 playoff games = 5 goals 10 assists 15 points, and last 16 X playoff games = 0-10- 10 points.

One could say he is due for a big point production burst, or one could also say the older he gets and more playoff experience he gains the less impact he makes on a playoff series.

Da league has figured out how to neutralize him .. Habs are cutting off every passing angle for Mitch when he gets puck .. they are forcing him to shoot it as they know he shoots like a **** .. their forwards also come back fast on backcheck so it forces Mitch into giving up puck as he does not want to get pasted and he is not fast enough to beat any defensemen .. it is smart coaching and it is a bad matchup for Mitch .. CLB and BOS play similar half ice games with faster forwards and big man defenders - this is Mitch's kryptonite

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I'm not a Toronto guy, but I'm a big fan of Marner's. When comparing his production to similar wingers in the playoffs, shouldn't you account for the fact that Toronto's defense is notably weaker than those other teams? That can really impact production. If anyone on TOR tries to cheat on one play, it ends up in his own net.

Just something to think about! I foresee two Marner goals next game

 

[Not My Tempo]

That last time Marner scored a NHL playoff goal was game #1 of the Boston series in the 2018-2019 playoffs, when in fact he had 2 in a Leafs 4-1 to open the series.

Since then he has gone 6 games in that Boston series, + 5 games in the CBJ series last year and +5 games in this years series for a total of 16 games without a goal.

During that same 16 game span he has managed only 10 assists also, which included 9 Leaf losses as a result.

The gradual decline of Mitch Marner ..

2016-17 in 6 games = 1-3-4 points
2017-18 in 7 games = 2-7-9 points
2018-19 in 7 games = 2-2-4 points (both goals coming in game #1)
2019-20 in 5 games = 0-4-4 points
2020-21 in 5 games = 0-4-4 points

His 1st X 14 playoff games = 5 goals 10 assists 15 points, and last 16 X playoff games = 0-10- 10 points.

One could say he is due for a big point production burst, or one could also say the older he gets and more playoff experience he gains the less impact he makes on a playoff series.

It's even worse when you look at 5v5:

2016-17 in 6 games = 1-0-1 points
2017-18 in 7 games = 2-4-6 points
2018-19 in 7 games = 1-0-1 points
2019-20 in 5 games = 0-0-0 points
2020-21 in 5 games = 0-3-3 points

 

[Mats13]

It's even worse when you look at 5v5:

2016-17 in 6 games = 1-0-1 points
2017-18 in 7 games = 2-4-6 points
2018-19 in 7 games = 1-0-1 points (both goals coming in game #1)
2019-20 in 5 games = 0-0-0 points
2020-21 in 5 games = 0-3-3 points

That’s actually gross

Edit: you could add up the last three years and Nylander has more points in just this series. Oof

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

One great man once told me "you can't ask someone to do something they have no skills to accomplish" .. Mitch unfortunately does not have straight away foot speed .. again Leafs have not developed that skill either in him which he is lacking .. it is a short stride issue exact same one as Sandin has .. needs to lengthen his stride to compete in faster playoff games at NHL level

How likely is it that a player that made the NHL and has had many, many hours of private skating coaching actually gets a noticeable uptick in his speed? I am honestly curious.

I read that by the time you get to that stage you have had so much coaching that our amazing skating coach can only do so much. I can see the team fixing Justin Brazeau's skating because he didn't have any real skills coach until he got to the Leafs...but Sandin or Marner all of a sudden getting much better seems like its an impossible task this late into their careers. I hope I'm wrong..but I just don't see it.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

That last time Marner scored a NHL playoff goal was game #1 of the Boston series in the 2018-2019 playoffs, when in fact he had 2 in a Leafs 4-1 to open the series.

Since then he has gone 6 games in that Boston series, + 5 games in the CBJ series last year and +5 games in this years series for a total of 16 games without a goal.

During that same 16 game span he has managed only 10 assists also, which included 9 Leaf losses as a result.

The gradual decline of Mitch Marner ..

2016-17 in 6 games = 1-3-4 points
2017-18 in 7 games = 2-7-9 points
2018-19 in 7 games = 2-2-4 points (both goals coming in game #1)
2019-20 in 5 games = 0-4-4 points
2020-21 in 5 games = 0-4-4 points

His 1st X 14 playoff games = 5 goals 10 assists 15 points, and last 16 X playoff games = 0-10- 10 points.

One could say he is due for a big point production burst, or one could also say the older he gets and more playoff experience he gains the less impact he makes on a playoff series.

Is he turning into Johnny Hockey?...ouch...that would suck.

 

[Mess]

Da league has figured out how to neutralize him .. Habs are cutting off every passing angle for Mitch when he gets puck .. they are forcing him to shoot it as they know he shoots like a **** .. their forwards also come back fast on backcheck so it forces Mitch into giving up puck as he does not want to get pasted and he is not fast enough to beat any defensemen .. it is smart coaching and it is a bad matchup for Mitch .. CLB and BOS play similar half ice games with faster forwards and big man defenders - this is Mitch's kryptonite

Playoff style hockey gets tighter checking and hard hitting and increase attention to detail and systems.

Marner is a smaller skilled player that plays on the perimeter, non physical and avoids contract whenever possible with a pass first mentality, which makes him easier to neutralize. He is also a secondary scoring weapon that needs others to put the puck in the net for him to produce offense, so teams take away his passing options which makes easier to defend.

Then you watch his so called comparables like Point and Aho or Kucherov who are smaller size also, but also fearless to play in traffic and also primary scoring threats as well as good playmakers, making them effective playoff performers.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

How likely is it that a player that made the NHL and has had many, many hours of private skating coaching actually gets a noticeable uptick in his speed? I am honestly curious.

I read that by the time you get to that stage you have had so much coaching that our amazing skating coach can only do so much. I can see the team fixing Justin Brazeau's skating because he didn't have any real skills coach until he got to the Leafs...but Sandin or Marner all of a sudden getting much better seems like its an impossible task this late into their careers. I hope I'm wrong..but I just don't see it.

Look I am not saying it is an easy task .. in fact it is d*mn hard .. but guys have improved their foot speed over da years .. and many more guys have not .. i agree with you .. from being in org for 2 years with 1 of my kids a couple years back I know these skating issues are fairly well known by all staff and all players and I know that they have tried to work with both Mitch and Sandin but so far it has not worked

 

[3blizzard4]

You know I bet I know what the problem is with both Matthews and Mitch...they are encountering teams playing defence against them in the playoffs. Once teams remove this hinderance guaranteed they start producing.

 

[stickty111]

If the Leafs callapse in this series and a core member needs to go, the decision is getting easier which player needs to go and it's Marner.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

If the Leafs callapse in this series and a core member needs to go, the decision is getting easier which player needs to go and it's Marner.

I want to win da Cup so I am hoping we advance but if we don't then new GM will get da rebuild responsibility and it will start with Mitch trade

 

[ViewsFromThe6ix]

I'm not a Toronto guy, but I'm a big fan of Marner's. When comparing his production to similar wingers in the playoffs, shouldn't you account for the fact that Toronto's defense is notably weaker than those other teams? That can really impact production. If anyone on TOR tries to cheat on one play, it ends up in his own net.

Just something to think about! I foresee two Marner goals next game

Toronto's defense is one of the best in the league. Stop it.

 

[Guided by Veseys]

Easily better than Patrick Kane at every level of his career. If it wasn’t for Frederik Anderson, PDO and other goalies playing lights out Mitch would probably have three to four conn smythe’s by now. Great value contract. Top 3 player.

 

[MSZ]

The Avs, Bruins, Jets etc. star players are getting it done.

It's time for Mitch and Auston to steal some games for us. I feel like they played pretty well until game 3. And they have both been ineffective since. It's now their 5th trip to the playoffs, so there are no excuses anymore.

Come on boys, bring it home in game 6!

Canes' top line has been amazing too.

 

[Trapper]

Easily better than Patrick Kane at every level of his career. If it wasn’t for Frederik Anderson, PDO and other goalies playing lights out Mitch would probably have three to four conn smythe’s by now. Great value contract. Top 3 player.

Don’t forget coaching and the lack of a proper left winger who can also score 40 goals and make 11 million dollars.

 

[Peasy]

That last time Marner scored a NHL playoff goal was game #1 of the Boston series in the 2018-2019 playoffs, when in fact he had 2 in a Leafs 4-1 to open the series.

Since then he has gone 6 games in that Boston series, + 5 games in the CBJ series last year and +5 games in this years series for a total of 16 games without a goal.

During that same 16 game span he has managed only 10 assists also, which included 9 Leaf losses as a result.

The gradual decline of Mitch Marner ..

2016-17 in 6 games = 1-3-4 points
2017-18 in 7 games = 2-7-9 points
2018-19 in 7 games = 2-2-4 points (both goals coming in game #1)
2019-20 in 5 games = 0-4-4 points
2020-21 in 5 games = 0-4-4 points

His 1st X 14 playoff games = 5 goals 10 assists 15 points, and last 16 X playoff games = 0-10- 10 points.

One could say he is due for a big point production burst, or one could also say the older he gets and more playoff experience he gains the less impact he makes on a playoff series.

Marner had the benefit of the doubt the first series against Boston as he didn't have to match up against Bergeron and other top players. He was mainly on the Leafs 3rd line. Since going against top competition the results have been less than ideal...

 

[AvroArrow]

He looks bad so far, lots of over thinking. He gets so many prime chances and just screws the entire play up. Passes when he should shoot, shoots when he should pass. He doesn't look like his normal confident self in the playoffs.