Salary Cap: Mitch Marner Contract Discussion Part VI | Marner Reportedly Turns Down 8 Year Term

[Bomber0104]

First of all, it was Nylander who called Dubas in the last hour to make the deal. Nylander blinked. Not Dubas.

Let's pretend for a minute Nylander didnt blink and Dubas did let Nylander sit. Basically Nylander would have to be traded at that point because that relationship is done.

Now Marner might either think 'oh crap. I cant mess with this guy! better take the lower offer'. Or he might think 'I bet he cant sit us both' and hold out. What does Dubas do then? Sit him too? lose his second young star? what a win for the leafs that would be. People on these boards would be howling and clapping because he stood his ground and is doing a fantastic job, right?

Sitting Nylander was not a good option for anyone.

Dubas caved to Nylander.

There's no spinning it any other way.

 

[Bomber0104]

I agree. Something is wrong.

We outplayed the Broons 4 out of the first 5 games. And lead the series 3-2.

We should have won one of game six or seven. We should have won the series.

Game 2 was on the refs. But we shouldn't have lost game 4 or 6 or 7.

I blame the players for not pulling it off. They had to put everything on the line 10x the effort. I blame our top players for not scoring more. I blame our defense for not cutting it. I blame Kadri for getting suspended. I blame Anderson for not stopping enough pucks.

I blame the coaching staff for not adjusting and not pushing the team. Tortarella's speech swept Tampa, cheesy or not pep talks work. Babcock had to do something. Coaching team had to figure out how to solve the Bruin powerplay.

The only one I dont blame is Dubas. He got Tavares. He got Muzzin. He signed Nylander and Matthews. He got Enis and brought up Trevor Moore. He did everything a GM is expected to make. Sure Nylander and Matthews's deals were shorter than what we all liked - but that did not lose us the series.

You can't put all the blame on the current GM, but the way the team was configured for this playoff tournament was clearly wrong from the get go.

People weren't harping on the Leafs for being soft for no reason.

It was being said because we needed bigger bodies winning the war of attrition that the playoffs often times becomes..

 

[Gabriel426]

You can't put all the blame on the current GM, but the way the team was configured for this playoff tournament was clearly wrong from the get go.

People weren't harping on the Leafs for being soft for no reason.

It was being said because we needed bigger bodies winning the war of attrition that the playoffs often times becomes..

First off, Boston is a better team than the Leafs and our regular season standing and series shown that. Let’s dont make this into Leafs was upset like the Pens, Caps or TB.

Secondly, Dubas cannot foresee Kadri getting suspended again after last year.

Thirdly, the Leafs were leading in the Series and had two chances to close out the Series in Game 6 and 7.

You can say that Dubas should have built a better team, a team with more fight and physical.... but look at all the players that switched teams(UFAs/trades) since last off season, JT is by far the best player and Muzzin is the best defensive Dman who switched team.
What more can he do?

 

[Bomber0104]

First off, Boston is a better team than the Leafs and our regular season standing and series shown that. Let’s dont make this into Leafs was upset like the Pens, Caps or TB.

Secondly, Dubas cannot foresee Kadri getting suspended again after last year.

Thirdly, the Leafs were leading in the Series and had two chances to close out the Series in Game 6 and 7.

You can say that Dubas should have built a better team, a team with more fight and physical.... but look at all the players that switched teams(UFAs/trades) since last off season, JT is by far the best player and Muzzin is the best defensive Dman who switched team.
What more can he do?

You want to talk shop?

Well, a battle-worthy 4th line is the easiest last-minute patch-work to shore up and add to an already good forwards corps

A solid 4th line is an incredible asset to own for a multitude of reasons.

 

[Gabriel426]

You want to talk shop?

Well, a battle-worthy 4th line is the easiest last-minute patch-work to shore up and add to an already good forwards corps

A solid 4th line is an incredible asset to own for a multitude of reasons.

So you are saying that Leafs lost bc their 4th line is not as good as Boston?

 

[Bomber0104]

So you are saying that Leafs lost bc their 4th line is not as good as Boston?

How useful would have an extra penalty-killer been?

 

[Man Bear Pig]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Lou Lam offer sheet Marner in a "pay back" situation because the Leafs got JT.

I'd almost welcome it at this point. If Marner really is this greedy, go play somewhere else. Love the guy but this is ridiculous. He hasn't earned it.

 

[Bomber0104]

I'd almost welcome it at this point. If Marner really is this greedy, go play somewhere else. Love the guy but this is ridiculous. He hasn't earned it.

And Matthews did?

What with his 70 points?

Marner put up 94, most since Sundin.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

And Matthews did?

What with his 70 points?

Marner put up 94, most since Sundin.

Matthews put up 40 goals in his rookie year and easily hits 40 in the next 2 seasons if he was healthy. That's not even debatable. Mitch Marner jumped 25 points in one season and expects to be paid as much as an elite goal scorer. I'd love to go into an interview and justify that kind of salary because I did well for a short period of time.

 

[Bomber0104]

Matthews put up 40 goals in his rookie year and easily hits 40 in the next 2 seasons if he was healthy. That's not even debatable. Mitch Marner jumped 25 points in one season and expects to be paid as much as an elite goal scorer. I'd love to go into an interview and justify that kind of salary because I did well for a short period of time.

"If"

Marner actually produced.

Basically what you're saying is we are paying handsome for potential because of "rate" scoring and injury history?

But a player that ACTUALLY produced, injury free, over 82 games is for some reason less valued?

 

[Bomber0104]

People that value "rate" scoring must honestly believe that Bossy was the greatest goal scorer of all time, and not Gretzky.

 

[Gabriel426]

How useful would have an extra penalty-killer been?

I blame Babs for not using Matthews, AJ, JT and Moore on the PK in the regular season in order for his to have more options come playoff time.

 

[SniperOnTheWing]

I don't know how it happened, but Kyle Dbas cured me of my Leafs obssession. Gotta thank you kid.

All you had to do was let Nylander sit. Its all you hadda do.

Wish you had done it and I bet you wish you had as well.

Its all you had to do.

If you think letting Nylander sit over $7M was going to have any effect on Marner and his dad wanting Matthews money you're out to lunch.

Matthews was getting $10-11M no matter what Nylander signed for (thank Buffalo and the Eichel deal for that one) and Paul Marner thinks Mitch is the second coming of christ so it was always going to be an ego battle between AM34 and MM16. The Marner camp clearly have their sights set on the franchise center tier of pay, not winger money. To them Nylander isn't worthy of being mentioned in the same breath as our Lord and savior Mitch Marner.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Can people stop saying Marner tutned down 11X8 that's made up

 

[Man Bear Pig]

"If"

Marner actually produced.

Basically what you're saying is we are paying handsome for potential because of "rate" scoring and injury history?

But a player that ACTUALLY produced, injury free, over 82 games is for some reason less valued?

40,34,37. That's goals scored. While missing tons of games in years 2 and 3. That's 3 years of near historic numbers in the modern era. And you're comparing that to one season. That's your argument?

 

[Man Bear Pig]

People that value "rate" scoring must honestly believe that Bossy was the greatest goal scorer of all time, and not Gretzky.

And people that value one good season should buy all the Cheechoo stock they can get their hands on.

 

[hullsy47]

First off, Boston is a better team than the Leafs and our regular season standing and series shown that. Let’s dont make this into Leafs was upset like the Pens, Caps or TB.

Secondly, Dubas cannot foresee Kadri getting suspended again after last year.

Thirdly, the Leafs were leading in the Series and had two chances to close out the Series in Game 6 and 7.

You can say that Dubas should have built a better team, a team with more fight and physical.... but look at all the players that switched teams(UFAs/trades) since last off season, JT is by far the best player and Muzzin is the best defensive Dman who switched team.
What more can he do?

but I agree but they needed a huge game out of nylander and marner in game 6
didn't get it

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Dubas caved to Nylander.

There's no spinning it any other way.

In what way did he cave? The Nylander camp original ask was for 8+

It's a fair contract, and one that looks better with each passing new deal signed.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

"If"

Marner actually produced.

Basically what you're saying is we are paying handsome for potential because of "rate" scoring and injury history?

But a player that ACTUALLY produced, injury free, over 82 games is for some reason less valued?

Hey if you want to die on the hill that a guy that scored 37 goals while missing 20 games isn't a 40 goal scorer all the power to you....but you will look pretty silly up on that hill with a couple Hab fans.

 

[therealkoho]

Great message we'd be sending to the hockey world. Strong-arm us in contract talks and you'll be rewarded with the C on your jersey.

Other then Rielly maybe, I don't think anyone else want's it, JT to my knowledge doesn't want the added pressure and exposure, Matty has never worn a C and by his own choice and he certainly won't in Toronto, you really thinks he wants more glare in Toronto then he already has? His post game interviews are reserved and reticent, the guy just doesn't want to be a public personality.

Mitch captained a very good Knights team to a Memorial Cup, that takes leadership skills especially when all the pressure in the world was on those guys because the Knights were were the odds on favourite. He did a great job. He was very modest and at the same time media savvy, he understand's the rule book, he and Morgan did most of the talking to the referees last year, the only other guy who did it on a regular basis was Hainsey. He leaves it all on the ice every night, he was probably Toronto's best player in 60 out of those 82 games. He's a guy that the other guy's will follow.

Once Mitch is captain, he'll be like a Stevie Y, or Hap Day(know your Leafs history) a leader by example and very few words. and like Hap more then likely someday work in Leafs management, anybody who signs a contract with Toronto would understand that the C is off the table if Mitch is still playing, just like it was with Armstrong a strong personality who was the buffer between Imlach and the players and was also a guy that Imlach saw as a true Leaf. Mitch is that.

I'm kind of disappointed with a lot of the people here, for years all we heard from a lot of you was the need to have homegrown talent, to have local guys who were Leafs fans growing up and understood what it would mean to win the SC playing in the B&W. Well. ladies and germs that guy is here and may go down possibly as the greatest Leaf ever, and a lot of you are talking shit about him, like really! Really! How bout we say stay Mitch we need you, we believe in you, we want you to be here and bring the cup back for all of us. We're not dreaming, we know that you can help accomplish that.

 

[hullsy47]

And Matthews did?

What with his 70 points?

Marner put up 94, most since Sundin.

playing with a world class john tavaras
sundin played some years with an aging jonas Hoglund and Rosenberg
sign for 3 years and play with kadri and brown
u get 90 points I'll pay u 12 mill

 

[therealkoho]

He’s getting 11 on a shorter term, if the team already told him they will pay him 11 then they will pay him 11. The team has leaked the offer to try and and put public pressure on him. I personally think trying to get the public to sour on a star player is a stupid tactic and benefits no one.

partly true(just not the ostracization fantasy), but it was more of a signal to other teams who might've considering sliding Marner an offer sheet that it's going to take 11m+, how many GM's around the league think Mitch is worth 11m+, and not only have the cash to do it and give the 4 1st rounders to away. According to Bob Mac, Friedge, and LeBrun, many other GM's around the league see Marner as a maybe, on a stretch, a 10m dollar winger.

In other words why sign the guy to a 5 or 6 year deal lose 4 first rounders only to watch him, much like Wendel Clark always did, wish he was back in the big smoke as soon as he put on the new uni. and alway's ended up back in Toronto, the longest he lasted away was less then two and a half years. Players like being where they feel a connection and a certain amount of comfort and happiness. Marner is a guy who had a lot of bouts of homesickness in London which really isn't that very far away and ended up going home quite a lot.

 

[Caesium]

playing with a world class john tavaras
sundin played some years with an aging jonas Hoglund and Rosenberg
sign for 3 years and play with kadri and brown
u get 90 points I'll pay u 12 mill

Marner played at a 90 point pace in the second half of 2017-2018, which Dubas used as part of the pitch to John Tavares. It isn't a fluke for Marner to score 90, stop pretending that he is a 60 point player that got carried to 90.

 

[therealkoho]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Lou Lam offer sheet Marner in a "pay back" situation because the Leafs got JT.

Lou helped put a JT contingency plan together when it seemed possible that he try UFA status, Lou has nothing to be revengy about

 

[SniperOnTheWing]

Other then Rielly maybe, I don't think anyone else want's it, JT to my knowledge doesn't want the added pressure and exposure, Matty has never worn a C and by his own choice and he certainly won't in Toronto, you really thinks he wants more glare in Toronto then he already has? His post game interviews are reserved and reticent, the guy just doesn't want to be a public personality.

Mitch captained a very good Knights team to a Memorial Cup, that takes leadership skills especially when all the pressure in the world was on those guys because the Knights were were the odds on favourite. He did a great job. He was very modest and at the same time media savvy, he understand's the rule book, he and Morgan did most of the talking to the referees last year, the only other guy who did it on a regular basis was Hainsey. He leaves it all on the ice every night, he was probably Toronto's best player in 60 out of those 82 games. He's a guy that the other guy's will follow.

Once Mitch is captain, he'll be like a Stevie Y, or Hap Day(know your Leafs history) a leader by example and very few words. and like Hap more then likely someday work in Leafs management, anybody who signs a contract with Toronto would understand that the C is off the table if Mitch is still playing, just like it was with Armstrong a strong personality who was the buffer between Imlach and the players and was also a guy that Imlach saw as a true Leaf. Mitch is that.

I'm kind of disappointed with a lot of the people here, for years all we heard from a lot of you was the need to have homegrown talent, to have local guys who were Leafs fans growing up and understood what it would mean to win the SC playing in the B&W. Well. ladies and germs that guy is here and may go down possibly as the greatest Leaf ever, and a lot of you are talking **** about him, like really! Really! How bout we say stay Mitch we need you, we believe in you, we want you to be here and bring the cup back for all of us. We're not dreaming, we know that you can help accomplish that.

It would seem by the way these negotiations are going that those noble qualities Marner apparently has are not sincere, but rather being used as leverage to squeeze the team for a contract that says ''listen, I'm the top dog around here not Matthews or Tavares or anyone else''

I love Marner as a player but some true colors are starting to bleed through the blue jersey.