Salary Cap: Mitch Marner Contract Discussion Part IX | OS courting period begins

[mapleleafs34]

Why? Because Dubas stole 1.5m of his deserved earnings and put it on Matthews and Nylanders plate? Screw that, Dubas is the one that screwed up and Babcock as well to an extent.

If you read threads from two years ago, I was saying Babcock's usage and treatment of Nylander will lead to contract issues. It did. The posts exist. With Marner it was similar but not so bad, what happens? Dubas pulls the most stupid of stupid moves and did what he did.

Nylander didn't go and sign an offer sheet in the summer though. And Matthews didn't even want to wait until the summer to sign.

 

[81Leafs50]

Is the current perception that there is animosity between Marner and the Leafs?

NO. Things are fine between player and team. Negotiations are snagged on term.

 

[Advanced stats]

Did dreger say anything this morning in regards to the contract? Or the same usual rubbish?

 

[thewave]

Nylander didn't go and sign an offer sheet in the summer though. And Matthews didn't even want to wait until the summer to sign.

Matthews got injured for the third time in three years, his production tanked, Dubas paid for his hot start like a fool. If you have shoulder and back issues, you would rush it as quick as possible too. This job is outside Dubas' capacity right now. He should have waited 10 years to do GM work, learn the tricks.

 

[MyBudJT]

Did dreger say anything this morning in regards to the contract? Or the same usual rubbish?

I expect to hear something during his lunch break

 

[stewpac]

Matthews got injured for the third time in three years, his production tanked, Dubas paid for his hot start like a fool. If you have shoulder and back issues, you would rush it as quick as possible too. This job is outside Dubas' capacity right now. He should have waited 10 years to do GM work, learn the tricks.

Or he paid for three seasons of consistent goal scoring, which was at a rate to match any player in the league. But hey maybe a gm with 10 years of training for the position could have saved 500 grand a year. We'll just never know!

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I heard on 1050 radio. Dreger said he was not even 100% sure he met Paul Marner at draft. And he has had no contact with him since then. So his contact must be the agent or other GMs. But he hesitated on when asked if Marners camp phone was ringing off the hook from other teams. Then he said well I guess it must be because other teams are calling. He sounds like a guy who is in trouble. He clearly does not want to get cornered. But he did say everyone is blasting him on Twitter for being in Marners camp. My bet he is fired pretty soon. I for one do not think he is in the know on anything.

 

[thewave]

Or he paid for three seasons of consistent goal scoring, which was at a rate to match any player in the league. But hey maybe a gm with 10 years of training for the position could have saved 500 grand a year. We'll just never know!

More like 2m, if he finished this season it was far less impressive than the start. That's a lot of coin

 

[yubbers]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. All the discipline left with Lou. He was the strict Dad. Now you have buddy buddy Dubas who's like the step dad that won't discipline so he's walked all over.

 

[thewave]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. All the discipline left with Lou. He was the strict Dad. Now you have buddy buddy Dubas who's like the step dad that won't discipline so he's walked all over.

That's the impression I get. If you look at the body language of him on the draft floor among peers, he doesn't look like the guy in charge at all.

 

[BlueForever75]

Take the 4 1st Rounders and run. This is the best case scenario for the longevity of the Leafs to be a contender.

$$$$ saved can go into improving the team, 4 1st's can be parlayed in trades to better team, some of picks can be turned into something of value for the future.

Imagine 7 1st Round picks to play with the next 4 years!!!! That is huge. Bigger then overpaying a spoiled rat.

 

[Ulysses31]

part of me hopes marner signs for market value, but part of me hopes they get ****** for overpaying matthews especially and to a lesser extent nylander

 

[Mess]

NHL comparables wingers Marner vs Kucherov

If winger Kucherov just put up 128 points for $9.5 mil that = $74,215k Cap hit / point return on investment.

If winger Marner puts up 94 points for $11 mil (asking price) that = $117,021k cap hit / point. [+ $42,806k per point] return on investment.

Kucherov: $9.5 mil / 128 points = $74K AAV/point
Marner : $11 mil / XXX = $74k AAV/point, where XXX = 148 points.

For the Kucherov value of $74,215k bang for you cap space buck $ used if you paid Marner $11 mil, Mitch would need score 148 points a season for Leafs to get equal value for the contract as a comparable.
Or
Pay for actual Marner production of 94 points to get the Kucherov $74,215k value /point, you should be paying Marner only $6.976,210 mil [= Nylander current contract].

PS. Bonus comparable winger Nylander should be putting up 94 points for his $6.969 mil current contract to get the same value TB is from Kucherov at $9.5 mil.

 

[RoyalCitySlicker]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. All the discipline left with Lou. He was the strict Dad. Now you have buddy buddy Dubas who's like the step dad that won't discipline so he's walked all over.

What discipline those Zaitsev and Marleau contracts show! What a model of generally managing!

 

[Advanced stats]

NHL comparables wingers Marner vs Kucherov

If winger Kucherov just put up 128 points for $9.5 mil that = $74,215k Cap hit / point return on investment.

If winger Marner puts up 94 points for $11 mil (asking price) that = $117,021k cap hit / point. [+ $42,806k per point] return on investment.

Kucherov: $9.5 mil / 128 points = $74K AAV/point
Marner : $11 mil / XXX = $74k AAV/point, where XXX = 148 points.

For the Kucherov value of $74,215k bang for you cap space buck $ used if you paid Marner $11 mil, Mitch would need score 148 points a season for Leafs to get equal value for the contract as a comparable.
Or
Pay for actual Marner production of 94 points to get the Kucherov $74,215k value /point, you should be paying Marner only $6.976,210 mil [= Nylander current contract].

PS. Bonus comparable winger Nylander should be putting up 94 points for his $6.969 mil current contract to get the same value TB is from Kucherov at $9.5 mil.

When will we learn that Kucherov took a discount and his contract is a steal.

Normally, and very generally for forwards there's a rough standard of $100,000+ per point. Meaning Kucherov is deserving of a 13 million dollar contract.

No one should ever use sweetheart deals like Kucherov/Pasternak as comparables.

 

[thewave]

NHL comparables wingers Marner vs Kucherov

If winger Kucherov just put up 128 points for $9.5 mil that = $74,215k Cap hit / point return on investment.

If winger Marner puts up 94 points for $11 mil (asking price) that = $117,021k cap hit / point. [+ $42,806k per point] return on investment.

Kucherov: $9.5 mil / 128 points = $74K AAV/point
Marner : $11 mil / XXX = $74k AAV/point, where XXX = 148 points.

For the Kucherov value of $74,215k bang for you cap space buck $ used if you paid Marner $11 mil, Mitch would need score 148 points a season for Leafs to get equal value for the contract as a comparable.
Or
Pay for actual Marner production of 94 points to get the Kucherov $74,215k value /point, you should be paying Marner only $6.976,210 mil [= Nylander current contract].

PS. Bonus comparable winger Nylander should be putting up 94 points for his $6.969 mil current contract to get the same value TB is from Kucherov at $9.5 mil.

The winger argument is silly anyways. Ovi got big dollars as a winger, more than Crosby. C is ideal but premium talent is just that and it's not like you pay 2m for positon. Remember the old Tampa bay 8.7m is 11+m in Toronto because tax? Where did that go now? In true Torontonian fashion, Canadian really, people are creating justifications for everything and straying away from the facts.

 

[Peace Frog]

Whatever happened to the notion that if the Leafs were a good team, then players would WANT to play here and that homegrown lads would surely take the hometown discount to be here? Guess that was unrealistic. Players play for the almighty dollar..... that’s the bottom line. The only current Leaf to take a discount to play here so far, is JT. And I love the guy!!

 

[thewave]

When will we learn that Kucherov took a discount and his contract is a steal.

Normally, and very generally for forwards there's a rough standard of $100,000+ per point. Meaning Kucherov is deserving of a 13 million dollar contract.

No one should ever use sweetheart deals like Kucherov/Pasternak as comparables.

I used the 100k per point model a couple years ago, it's a bit more now but you have to factor UFA and RFA. I worked it out that RFA was about 75k then, it should be about 90k now but it's not, it's about 110k UFA and RFA, it's broken. Matthews just got like 123k

 

[willmma]

NHL comparables wingers Marner vs Kucherov

If winger Kucherov just put up 128 points for $9.5 mil that = $74,215k Cap hit / point return on investment.

If winger Marner puts up 94 points for $11 mil (asking price) that = $117,021k cap hit / point. [+ $42,806k per point] return on investment.

Kucherov: $9.5 mil / 128 points = $74K AAV/point
Marner : $11 mil / XXX = $74k AAV/point, where XXX = 148 points.

For the Kucherov value of $74,215k bang for you cap space buck $ used if you paid Marner $11 mil, Mitch would need score 148 points a season for Leafs to get equal value for the contract as a comparable.
Or
Pay for actual Marner production of 94 points to get the Kucherov $74,215k value /point, you should be paying Marner only $6.976,210 mil [= Nylander current contract].

PS. Bonus comparable winger Nylander should be putting up 94 points for his $6.969 mil current contract to get the same value TB is from Kucherov at $9.5 mil.

So ~$7M for Marner's points
Add 3% for inflation
And then 13% provincial tax on top
That's about $8.15M

Then we can overpay a bit at $9M
And give up a bit of term

$9Mx4 or $9.5Mx6 or $10Mx8

I reall don't see how it could be more than that.

 

[HogTown06]

Kucherov plays in Florida and he doesn't pay state income tax in half the games he plays if I'm not mistaken.

But looking at those comparables... Forget about Marner... Boy did we get screwed on Nylander's contract...

 

[Advanced stats]

I used the 100k per point model a couple years ago, it's a bit more now but you have to factor UFA and RFA. I worked it out that RFA was about 75k then, it should be about 90k now but it's not, it's about 110k UFA and RFA, it's broken. Matthews just got like 123k

It used to be 100K about 3 years ago. Now it's likely over that, somewhere around 110k which is fair imo.

The RFA-UFA thing is weird though.
You might see a scenario where UFA's start to load a lot of salary.

 

[NiL8r87]

Why? Because Dubas stole 1.5m of his deserved earnings and put it on Matthews and Nylanders plate? Screw that, Dubas is the one that screwed up and Babcock as well to an extent.

If you read threads from two years ago, I was saying Babcock's usage and treatment of Nylander will lead to contract issues. It did. The posts exist. With Marner it was similar but not so bad, what happens? Dubas pulls the most stupid of stupid moves and did what he did.

So if Mitch takes a 13 mil offer sheet and challenges Dubas to match, who's money is he potentially taking?

Nylander's contract could look like a bargain at the end of this offseason.

 

[stewpac]

More like 2m, if he finished this season it was far less impressive than the start. That's a lot of coin

Less money than Eichel?? Now back to reality. have you ever been in a negotiation of any kind before? Dubas by all accounts has been doing just fine so unless you have some actual evidence otherwise I suggest to moving on from him and discussing Marner.

 

[Mess]

NO. Things are fine between player and team. Negotiations are snagged on term.

Why the negotiations got snagged on term!!.

Nylander up 1st gets top $ for sacrificing only 1 year of UFA status.
Matthews up 2nd gets top $ for sacrificing only 1 year of UFA status.

Now Marner up 3rd for renewal and suddenly Dubas/Leafs need 4 years of UFA status purchased away from him, for Mitch to that his top $$. [based on $10 mil X 8 years rumoured Leafs offer]

Its surprising that Leaf fans blame Mitch for this situation and balking at Leafs offer, when its rather obvious why the Marner side (including Agent/Father) feel Leafs organization is disrespecting them in contract negotiations by suddenly moving the goal posts, and changing the terms forcing Marner into a situation that neither Nylander nor Matthews was asked to do on their new contracts.

For all 3 Amigos to be treated equally and given the same terms of 1 year of UFA status, then Leafs should be offering Marner a contract based on 5 year term [which is what Marner is asking $10.5 mil X 5].

Since Marner's side feels the Leafs organization is screwing them over, they're all but forcing Marner to attempt to get an OS to be treated fairly and equally this his Leaf brothers, whether the Leafs match it or not. Further pissing off their side by saying if they got a comparable OS, the Leafs are not sure they would even match it or take the comp picks perhaps.

All things considered clearly the problem is TERM, but all things might not be so rosy. !!!

 

[LaPlante94]

The winger argument is silly anyways. Ovi got big dollars as a winger, more than Crosby. C is ideal but premium talent is just that and it's not like you pay 2m for positon. Remember the old Tampa bay 8.7m is 11+m in Toronto because tax? Where did that go now? In true Torontonian fashion, Canadian really, people are creating justifications for everything and straying away from the facts.

Winger argument is silly? Only wingers who are paid big bucks are 30-50 goal scoring wingers. The only reason Ovi is paid more than Crosby is because Crosby only signed for 8.7 every contract because that his number/birthday. Do you see Marner becoming a consistent 35+ goal scorer like the rest of the wingers he wants to be paid much more then?