Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Continued

[thusk]

What I meant by that which you should agree is nylander produces despite who he plays with sure he’s gone games pointless he never plays with the best players on the team unless it’s a power play we saw two games ago kampf and marner could do nothing put him with Willy he gets an assist wasn’t a knocc against marner he needs scorers with him to maximize his skill set Willy just needs the pucc

I always considerate Nylander like a free electron. He have the hability to do his thing with anybody whatever with who hes playing. He will be able to play the same way whatever with who he's playing with and do his own stuff.

Marner is a different type of player He's less flashy but he having the ability to make player around him look better. He will adapt to his teammate, making their life easier on the ice and help them to reach an other step. Also a reason why player love playing with him.

Its also part of your answer of why most of coach would put marner with leafs best player unstead of Nylander except for Babcock who want to have their 2 best player driving their own line like he did in Detroit with Datsyuk/ Zetterberg.

Its 2 different type of player and leafs will need both of them in playoff playing like they could.

 

[arso40]

I always considerate Nylander like a free electron. He have the hability to do his thing with anybody whatever with who hes playing. He will be able to play the same way whatever with who he's playing with and do his own stuff.

Marner is a different type of player He's less flashy but he having the ability to make player around him look better. He will adapt to his teammate, making their life easier on the ice and help them to reach an other step. Also a reason why player love playing with him.

Its also part of your answer of why most of coach would put marner with leafs best player unstead of Nylander except for Babcock who want to have their 2 best player driving their own line like he did in Detroit with Datsyuk/ Zetterberg.

Its 2 different type of player and leafs will need both of them in playoff playing like they could.

Marner imo is the smarter player for sure Willie’s just the more gifted player I like both to stay on the team in all honesty it’s probably the captain who has the most to give

 

[Stephen]

I always considerate Nylander like a free electron. He have the hability to do his thing with anybody whatever with who hes playing. He will be able to play the same way whatever with who he's playing with and do his own stuff.

Marner is a different type of player He's less flashy but he having the ability to make player around him look better. He will adapt to his teammate, making their life easier on the ice and help them to reach an other step. Also a reason why player love playing with him.

Its also part of your answer of why most of coach would put marner with leafs best player unstead of Nylander except for Babcock who want to have their 2 best player driving their own line like he did in Detroit with Datsyuk/ Zetterberg.

Its 2 different type of player and leafs will need both of them in playoff playing like they could.

Marner is capable of highly intelligent, high energy and creative play but also extremely silly, sloppy and face meltingly stupid moments as well... like a drop pass on a breakaway to a teammate with a defender bearing down. There's a Shrodinger's Cat type thing going on there with which Marner you get.

I didn't watch every game of their careers, but guys like Bergeron, Zetterberg and Datsyuk were smart, creative, intelligent guys who made their line mates better, but they didn't have the fall-off in reliability that Mitch does. That holds him back.

 

[thusk]

Marner is capable of highly intelligent, high energy and creative play but also extremely silly, sloppy and face meltingly stupid moments as well... like a drop pass on a breakaway to a teammate with a defender bearing down. There's a Shrodinger's Cat type thing going on there with which Marner you get.

I didn't watch every game of their careers, but guys like Bergeron, Zetterberg and Datsyuk were smart, creative, intelligent guys who made their line mates better, but they didn't have the fall-off in reliability that Mitch does. That holds him back.

1- That's why i want to have marner split from Matthews, When they are together, Matthews counting too much on marner to make the play and marner waiting to much to pass it to matthews.

2- Also why i think Marner is better in a north/south system whos more direct and less fency. For me the last time Marner had been as much dominant was when Babcock was the cosch, He never be as good under keefe rush system. Marner is better in a forechecking system and im pretty confident we will see a difference in playoff

 

[notDatsyuk]

lol, didn’t Nylander have a stretch of like 4 or 5 games without a point this season? When he was on a line with Holmberg I think it was? Every player goes through ups and downs.

Two games to start the season and three games late October are the only pointless streaks.Currently on a 7 game point streak (6G+6A).

 

[LeafEgo]

1- That's why i want to have marner split from Matthews, When they are together, Matthews counting too much on marner to make the play and marner waiting to much to pass it to matthews.

2- Also why i think Marner is better in a north/south system whos more direct and less fency. For me the last time Marner had been as much dominant was when Babcock was the cosch, He never be as good under keefe rush system. Marner is better in a forechecking system and im pretty confident we will see a difference in playoff

Rush system is north south hockey - Keefer played perimeter hockey in Toronto.

I suspect because Dubie bamboozled poor Keefer with spreadsheets having not watched the playoffs before (think semesters at Brock ended in April).

They signed Willie in January. Never underestimate the stupidity of MLSEL.

They were always going get a guarantee that one of the super wingers remained in Toronto as soon as they could. Willy's ask in the summer 'started with an eleven' (after the Matty contract was signed). That was a tough ask despite their objective, but they relented once Willy was on the Gilmour pace.

 

[thusk]

Rush system is north south hockey - Keefer played perimeter hockey in Toronto.

I suspect because Dubie bamboozled poor Keefer with spreadsheets having not watched the playoffs before (think semesters at Brock ended in April).


They were always going get a guarantee that one of the super wingers remained in Toronto as soon as they could. Willy's ask in the summer 'started with an eleven' (after the Matty contract was signed). That was a tough ask despite their objective, but they relented once Willy was on the Gilmour pace.

Rush system is not the same thing of north-south. Just a small explanation of both system

North-south means they tend to drive straight up the ice between zones. East-west is alot of passing and work across the width of the ice.

Under keefe, leafs had been a rush team with a east-west system. Under Berube, leafs are a forechecking team with a north-south system.

Pete Deboer said the same exact thing with the same explanation of difference from both system before last meeting against Dallas

Stars' DeBoer: Toronto Maple Leafs playing 'totally different' in first season under Craig Berube | TSN

With Toronto visiting Dallas for a matchup with the Stars on Wednesday night, Pete DeBoer has taken note of the success Berube’s new-look Leafs have had to this point in the season.

www.tsn.ca

 

[LeafEgo]

Rush system is not the same thing of north-south. Just a small explanation of both system

North-south means they tend to drive straight up the ice between zones. East-west is alot of passing and work across the width of the ice.

Under keefe, leafs had been a rush team with a east-west system. Under Berube, leafs are a forechecking team with a north-south system.

Pete Deboer said the same exact thing with the same explanation of difference from both system before last meeting against Dallas

Stars' DeBoer: Toronto Maple Leafs playing 'totally different' in first season under Craig Berube | TSN

With Toronto visiting Dallas for a matchup with the Stars on Wednesday night, Pete DeBoer has taken note of the success Berube’s new-look Leafs have had to this point in the season.

www.tsn.ca

Fair enough, there were elements of rush play through the defensive and neutral zones (while also tolerant of slow play) but the defining feature of his system was extensive east west perimeter play in the o zone that got crushed by park the buss in the playoffs.

 

[Forsbergaura21]

Questions for Leafs fans:
1. What are the chances Marner resigns in Toronto?
2. If he signs elsewhere, do you see his production dropping, especially if he goes to a less high scoring team than Toronto?

 

[Sundinisagod]

Questions for Leafs fans:
1. What are the chances Marner resigns in Toronto?
2. If he signs elsewhere, do you see his production dropping, especially if he goes to a less high scoring team than Toronto?

1. I'd say 99% he re signs here. The 8th year is a huge advantage plus the Leafs only ever cave to their stars.

2. Absolutely I'd expect to see his production drop elsewhere if not surrounded by stars. I don't think there is a better spot for him to succeed than Toronto.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Questions for Leafs fans:
1. What are the chances Marner resigns in Toronto?
2. If he signs elsewhere, do you see his production dropping, especially if he goes to a less high scoring team than Toronto?

Very small chance he signs elsewhere.

The Leafs aren’t that high scoring this year and if he went to a team where he was leaned on less for defence and more for offensive, his numbers would likely go up.

 

[ToneDog]

1. I'd say 99% he re signs here. The 8th year is a huge advantage plus the Leafs only ever cave to their stars.

2. Absolutely I'd expect to see his production drop elsewhere if not surrounded by stars. I don't think there is a better spot for him to succeed than Toronto.

One goal in October and one goal in December with two games to go in the month. Mitch can dance and make amazing passes all he wants but if somebody is not putting the puck in the net, he's not getting 100 points and $13m.

 

[Sundinisagod]

One goal in October and one goal in December with two games to go in the month. Mitch can dance and make amazing passes all he wants but if somebody is not putting the puck in the net, he's not getting 100 points and $13m.

We will get him down to a mere 12.5 x 8

 

[ToneDog]

We will get him down to a mere 12.5 x 8

The will spin it as a discount. Afterall somebody will pay him $14m.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Questions for Leafs fans:
1. What are the chances Marner resigns in Toronto?
2. If he signs elsewhere, do you see his production dropping, especially if he goes to a less high scoring team than Toronto?

1 - he will go to free agency and sign with whoever pays him the most.

2 - he is the greatest passer (and defensive player) of all time - no matter who he plays with he will put up spectacular assist numbers, and everyone else on the team will automatically see at least a 40% increase in offensive production.

You should start lobbying very hard for your team to 'soft interfere' to make sure they get him.

 

[ToneDog]

1 - he will go to free agency and sign with whoever pays him the most.

2 - he is the greatest passer (and defensive player) of all time - no matter who he plays with he will put up spectacular assist numbers, and everyone else on the team will automatically see at least a 40% increase in offensive production.

You should start lobbying very hard for your team to 'soft interfere' to make sure they get him.

Shhhhhhhhhhhhh. You will wake up Kyle in Chicago who are willing pay him the max to play with and unlock Connor Bedard.

 

[francis246]

Questions for Leafs fans:
1. What are the chances Marner resigns in Toronto?
2. If he signs elsewhere, do you see his production dropping, especially if he goes to a less high scoring team than Toronto?

1. Pretty high.

2. If he goes somewhere else I think his production goes up. He’s probably forced to shoot more since he’d likely be the best player and unlikely to be riding shot gun to someone. I think Marner going to another team might end up being better for his career personally. Chicago might be a great spot for him for example or going to Los Angeles or San Jose

One goal in October and one goal in December with two games to go in the month. Mitch can dance and make amazing passes all he wants but if somebody is not putting the puck in the net, he's not getting 100 points and $13m.

Who was he playing with in October and December? Playing with Matthews is the worst thing for Mitch and the team. His game becomes all about deferring to Auston. I hope they are split again in the new year.

 

[Stephen]

Fair enough, there were elements of rush play through the defensive and neutral zones (while also tolerant of slow play) but the defining feature of his system was extensive east west perimeter play in the o zone that got crushed by park the buss in the playoffs.

Yep. Marner-Keefe hockey was kind of hockey’s answer to Pep Guardiola possession soccer. It wasn’t rush hockey at all but hold the puck Russian Five inspired hockey that often meant circling the zone looking off an average scoring chance for more puck possession time, regrouping and retreating the puck backwards to hold onto the puck for a better look as opposed to moving it quickly, temporarily losing possession and having to initiate a fresh puck battle. Basically avoid one on one challenges to loss of puck.

 

[Byron Bitz]

I still say you hold firm on 11.5 x8 and if he needs more let’s let one of these other teams clear 13 million dollars in cap space to sign Marner. I bet they don’t. If they do then let him walk and make good use of the cap space that just cleared off the books.

 

[Stephen]

I still say you hold firm on 11.5 x8 and if he needs more let’s let one of these other teams clear 13 million dollars in cap space to sign Marner. I bet they don’t. If they do then let him walk and make good use of the cap space that just cleared off the books.

Not sure what the Canadian dollar will do for hockey related revenue but if the cap starts inflating again year over year the way they’ve been anticipating it might be more important to just keep your stars and the (imperfect) program continuing and keep your eyes open for upgrades later on.

I wouldn’t mind a Rantanen for Marner swap, and have no idea how plausible that would be, but looking at the landscape of the league right now and young crop of talent coming through recent drafts, it doesn’t feel like the game is awash in plentiful game changers otherwise.

 

[thusk]

Yep. Marner-Keefe hockey was kind of hockey’s answer to Pep Guardiola possession soccer. It wasn’t rush hockey at all but hold the puck Russian Five inspired hockey that often meant circling the zone looking off an average scoring chance for more puck possession time, regrouping and retreating the puck backwards to hold onto the puck for a better look as opposed to moving it quickly, temporarily losing possession and having to initiate a fresh puck battle. Basically avoid one on one challenges to loss of puck.

In transition is what all rush hockey, that's where leafs generate most of their scoring chance. For sure when youre already in ozone, you cant attack off the rush, that you mean came back in your own zone and try to come back in ozone with the puck and would make no sense at all.

When leafs was in ozone, they became a possrssion team trying to cycle and make cross crease pass to create scoring chance... but at the same time, Keefe taking guest than playing more with the puck in offensive end would make you better defensively by playing less in your own zone. aThe problem with that system is if you can't make cross crease pass, you just can get shot from peripheric and becoming pretty easy for a NHL Goalie to stop you. That's where leafs every playoff started to struggle to score in playoff, the cross crease pass didn't work so the only thing they was able to do is getting chance off the rush and taking shot from peripheric...

 

[Gabriel426]

Just pay MM in bitcoins, lol

 

[Sundinisagod]

The will spin it as a discount. Afterall somebody will pay him $14m.

14 x 7 is 98 million. But I really don't see that happening. Well you never know Dubas is still out there.

 

[ULF_55]

He's a great puck distributor.

I think he could score more than he does, but that's just opinion, so I have no evidence of that.

 

[ToneDog]

14 x 7 is 98 million. But I really don't see that happening. Well you never know Dubas is still out there.

12.5mx8=100m. Nobody is giving Marner $14mx7 IMO. Tre should dig in at 12.5m but not poop his pants worrying Marner will walk. Let him FFS.