Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Continued

[Gilmour1996]

If they sign him to a huge overpay before witnessing his playoff I am moving to the US.

Don't look for a house in Pittsburgh!

 

[thewave]

Don't look for a house in Pittsburgh!

Exactly where I am going. Live like a king with my favorite smiley GM Kyle "the misunderstood 6th dimensional thinker" Dubas close by.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Incoming Dekes post on how MM was the most sought after RFA in history with multiple offer sheets in 3..2...1....

He wasn't the most sought after in history of course, but it's funny that you think one of the best young players in the cap era wouldn't be highly sought after, even aside from the explicit confirmation of multiple offer sheets. You seem to have moved on to making ridiculous claims about Pittsburgh in a Marner thread though.

Tre rebuilt the D core in 2 off season's. Dubas had 5yrs to do it and he never could

Dubas rebuilt our defense, and made it good for the first time in decades. Treliving destroyed it and then put it back to what it was by utilizing a bigger cap jump than Dubas' entire tenure, and borrowing cap from the future.

because we kept hoping Mac Holliwell or Joey Duzcak would be hidden gems that were overlooked.

It's weird that you think our hopes were put in an undrafted free agent and a 4th round pick that combined for a total of 6 NHL games as deep injury fill-in, instead of the multiple drafted NHL defensemen, and free agent//trade additions that actually played for the team.

Smaller puck movers are not the answer. You can have 1 or 2 maybe...but what he wanted was just ridiculous IMO.

You seem to have no idea what he wanted, or the ways in which strong defenses can be built.

An unsigned offer-sheet = toilet paper in value.
There was no reason to give Marner a contract worth 4 X 1st as compensation without a SIGNED offersheet that the Leafs could have matched to keep the player if they wanted.
A greenhorn GM got played badly and now 2 wrongs don't make a right that Leafs need to overpay Marner based on his original overpaid contract.

An offer sheet, even if not yet signed, still provides leverage and market value information for the player. Marner was better than players that got four 1st offer sheets, but that wouldn't have even been necessary to stick us with a worse contract (10.55m x 5). And of course, we would have been even more screwed if we just sat around waiting to match something, as the cap calculation on a contract changes with an in-season signing, and we would have either lost Marner for a low price, or been forced to dismantle our team. Thankfully, we had a good GM at the time, that was able to get him locked up before the season to a fair contract, consistent with post-ELC history, and aligned with the 1st/1st/2nd/3rd offer sheet level. Treliving is currently negotiating a new contract, and there is no need to overpay Marner. If he does, that would be entirely on Treliving.

Kucherov finished with 44 goals 100 assists 144 points and makes $9.5 mil AAV

Which is, of course, completely irrelevant.

 

[Peasy]

Please just keep him and Matthews away from each other. They both play so much worse together.

 

[Confucius]

He wasn't the most sought after in history of course, but it's funny that you think one of the best young players in the cap era wouldn't be highly sought after, even aside from the explicit confirmation of multiple offer sheets. You seem to have moved on to making ridiculous claims about Pittsburgh in a Marner thread

Mitch will be 28 this year, he no longer is that 21 year old where the sky is the limit. He isn’t done by any means but he has peaked he is what he is, 30 goal a hundred points per season for another 3 or 4 years. There is about 5 guys in the history of the nhl that topped a hundred points after the age of 32. So how much do you want to commit for 4 more years of similar production?

 

[Dekes For Days]

Mitch will be 28 this year, he no longer is that 21 year old where the sky is the limit. He isn’t done by any means but he has peaked he is what he is, 30 goal a hundred points per season for another 3 or 4 years. There is about 5 guys in the history of the nhl that topped a hundred points after the age of 32. So how much do you want to commit for 4 more years of similar production?

What you highlighted was referencing when he was 21, but he would also be one of the most sought after UFAs in the cap era if he made it. Players like him don't make UFA. He is worth a significant amount; both in the market and to us. If people think he's getting 11m under a 92-97m cap, they're in for a surprise. He is one of the best players in the league, and top players tend to last to later ages than your average player, especially when their impacts aren't that reliant on attributes that deteriorate the quickest. There are no better options for his cap space. Letting him walk would be one of the stupidest moves in this franchise's history, and that's saying something.

 

[Evilhomer]

What you highlighted was referencing when he was 21, but he would also be one of the most sought after UFAs in the cap era if he made it. Players like him don't make UFA. He is worth a significant amount; both in the market and to us. If people think he's getting 11m under a 92-97m cap, they're in for a surprise. He is one of the best players in the league, and top players tend to last to later ages than your average player, especially when their impacts aren't that reliant on attributes that deteriorate the quickest. There are no better options for his cap space. Letting him walk would be one of the stupidest moves in this franchise's history, and that's saying something.

Marner is not leaving Toronto, and he is not going to be making under $11 million. The Leafs' salary structure pretty much guarantees that it will be somewhere around $12.5 million per season, give or take a few hundred thousand.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

He wasn't the most sought after in history of course, but it's funny that you think one of the best young players in the cap era wouldn't be highly sought after, even aside from the explicit confirmation of multiple offer sheets. You seem to have moved on to making ridiculous claims about Pittsburgh in a Marner thread though.

Dubas rebuilt our defense, and made it good for the first time in decades. Treliving destroyed it and then put it back to what it was by utilizing a bigger cap jump than Dubas' entire tenure, and borrowing cap from the future.

Seriously? Dubas rebuilt our defense but because Tre let Holl go as a UFA he destroyed it first? Are you comparing our current defense to anything that Dubas had built? I wasn't a big fan of Tre coming in....but he has done a great job on the backend with a good UFA goalie pick up and the D as well. I have to give him that.

 

[ACC1224]

Marner is not leaving Toronto, and he is not going to be making under $11 million. The Leafs' salary structure pretty much guarantees that it will be somewhere around $12.5 million per season, give or take a few hundred thousand.

Can’t imagine there is anyone left that hasn’t concluded that he’s re-signing.

 

[thusk]

Dubas rebuilt our defense, and made it good for the first time in decades. Treliving destroyed it and then put it back to what it was by utilizing a bigger cap jump than Dubas' entire tenure, and borrowing cap from the future.

When Dubas jump in

Rielly-Hainsey
Gardiner-Zaitsev
Dermott-Polak

They change hainsey for brodie who had been an downgrade

Gardiner for Muzzin who was a great upgrade... when healthy

and he drafted player who never fit in the team

waste asset every trade deadline to always try to fix defensive issues year after year

We dont have the same definition and " made it good "

 

[ACC1224]

Dubas is in Pittsburgh and has nothing to do with Marners excellent play to start the season.

 

[ToneDog]

Marner is not leaving Toronto, and he is not going to be making under $11 million. The Leafs' salary structure pretty much guarantees that it will be somewhere around $12.5 million per season, give or take a few hundred thousand.

Pure speculation. If he shit his pants again in April, how can anybody justify running it back again and paying him anything close to what he wants? IMO the only way he resigns here is if he has a good playoffs and the team is not punted in round #1. The good thing is that the Bruins and Tampa look like easy outs in round #1. Lose to them or Florida in 4 or 5 in round #2 and blow up this core already.

 

[Evilhomer]

Pure speculation. If he shit his pants again in April, how can anybody justify running it back again and paying him anything close to what he wants? IMO the only way he resigns here is if he has a good playoffs and the team is not punted in round #1. The good thing is that the Bruins and Tampa look like easy outs in round #1. Lose to them or Florida in 4 or 5 in round #2 and blow up this core already.

I don't think it will even get to April. I think he will resign well before that. The team won't risk pushing him close to free agency.

 

[Confucius]

I don't think it will even get to April. I think he will resign well before that. The team won't risk pushing him close to free agency.

He doesn’t want to leave, the team will take advantage of that, it’s just business

 

[ToneDog]

I don't think it will even get to April. I think he will resign well before that. The team won't risk pushing him close to free agency.

Doubt it. I think they are scared to resign him and risk another playoff disaster and further pissing of Leafs fans who have seen enough of the same rerun.

The guy says he wants to remain a Leaf and Leafs can be the highest bidder. The only reason to resign him before the playoffs is if he gives them a sweet deal. Look how the SC champs handed their pending UFAs. Ah yes, they don't have anybody as great as Mitch. Gotta resign him yesterday.

 

[Gallagbi]

When Dubas jump in

Rielly-Hainsey
Gardiner-Zaitsev
Dermott-Polak

They change hainsey for brodie who had been an downgrade

Gardiner for Muzzin who was a great upgrade... when healthy

and he drafted player who never fit in the team

waste asset every trade deadline to always try to fix defensive issues year after year

We dont have the same definition and " made it good "

Brodie was a significant upgrade on Hainsey. I liked Hainsey, but he was very clearly limited in what he offered and on the decline. Brodie was a strong top 4 guy early on and a clear upgrade. Just as strong defensively, better in transition, about to handle more minutes.

This D is the best we've seen since that early Muzzin, Brodie, Rielly CDN division. Debatable which is better IMO, this year has more depth and that CDN division had a better upper tier (younger Mo, Muzzin, Brodie and Tanev are about equal for me)

The comment on drafting against team needs is interesting. We have Knies in a key spot, Minten is our hope to finally fill the 3C spot, we all wish Robertson worked out for our needs on LW and Sandin seems like the offensive D so many wanted to bump Mo off PP1

I'd say the biggest wasted assets were on forwards and the preparation of a deep run we never hit

 

[keonsbitterness]

Doubt it. I think they are scared to resign him and risk another playoff disaster and further pissing of Leafs fans who have seen enough of the same rerun.

The guy says he wants to remain a Leaf and Leafs can be the highest bidder. The only reason to resign him before the playoffs is if he gives them a sweet deal. Look how the SC champs handed their pending UFAs. Ah yes, they don't have anybody as great as Mitch. Gotta resign him yesterday.

If anything, I think they're more scared not to re-sign him.

 

[ACC1224]

I don't think it will even get to April. I think he will resign well before that. The team won't risk pushing him close to free agency.

Makes no sense not to sign him early.
They won’t want to let playoffs be the deciding factor that would be really silly.
A poor assumption on the frothers part is that just because they feel all failure is down to this one player it’s doubtful the team feels the same way.

 

[thusk]

Brodie was a significant upgrade on Hainsey. I liked Hainsey, but he was very clearly limited in what he offered and on the decline. Brodie was a strong top 4 guy early on and a clear upgrade. Just as strong defensively, better in transition, about to handle more minutes.

This D is the best we've seen since that early Muzzin, Brodie, Rielly CDN division. Debatable which is better IMO, this year has more depth and that CDN division had a better upper tier (younger Mo, Muzzin, Brodie and Tanev are about equal for me)

The comment on drafting against team needs is interesting. We have Knies in a key spot, Minten is our hope to finally fill the 3C spot, we all wish Robertson worked out for our needs on LW and Sandin seems like the offensive D so many wanted to bump Mo off PP1

I'd say the biggest wasted assets were on forwards and the preparation of a deep run we never hit

Brodie was maybe better in transition but wordt defensively especially in physical game where he struggle most of the time... Can say about the same thing with liljegren and why both are out now

Dubas built D to have succes in regular season but for me tre build D to have succes in playoff. that's the biggest difference i saw. So if your goal is playoff succes, no doubt this season D is better than anyone under Dubas.

Muzzin, mccabe, kadri vs barrie+kerfoot, boosh x2, Schenn, gustafsson. Its a lot of asset spent under Dubas in attempt to fix all D issues

 

[Gallagbi]

Brodie was maybe better in transition but wordt defensively especially in physical gane where he struggle most of the time.Same as liljegren

Dubas built D to have succes in regular season but tre build Dto have succes in playoff. that's the biggest difference i saw. So if your goal is playoff succes, no doubt this season D is better than anyone under Dubas.

I'd build on my last post but if this is your starting point there's really no use.

 

[ToneDog]

If anything, I think they're more scared not to re-sign him.

Agreed but nobody is outbidding them so what's to be scared of? Is he going to be pissed off if they do not resign him like he was not getting his ELC bonuses?

Fear mongering 101. I'd like to think Tre has a pair but how he caved to Nylander does not give me any hope. Makes me think selling jerseys trumps winning Cups.

 

[Confucius]

Agreed but nobody is outbidding them so what's to be scared of? Is he going to be pissed off if they do not resign him like he was not getting his ELC bonuses?

Fear mongering 101. I'd like to think Tre has a pair but how he caved to Nylander does not give me any hope. Makes me think selling jerseys trumps winning Cups.

If Mitch wasn’t on the team the people that would have bought his jersey would just buy somebody else’s. If that is not the case well the fans have spoken, yes MLSE should do what the customer wants.

 

[therealkoho]

Do you have a source for that. All I can find is stuff about his goal being a long term leaf

I've heard him say that too.

It was in one of those standups, standing in front of Leafs backdrop, reporters unseen their questions mostly unheard

 

[Jojalu]

When Dubas jump in

Rielly-Hainsey
Gardiner-Zaitsev
Dermott-Polak

They change hainsey for brodie who had been an downgrade

Gardiner for Muzzin who was a great upgrade... when healthy

and he drafted player who never fit in the team

waste asset every trade deadline to always try to fix defensive issues year after year

We dont have the same definition and " made it good "

McCabe and Muzzin plus the 1 run with Schenn were all good.