Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Continued

[therealkoho]

Why not?
Quite often the second assist is the important part of the play.

People diminish based on who earns it.

Well if we're going to start eliminating stuff deemed unimportant, thus we should nullify all goals above the winning goal, now with Matthews losing all those goals and all secondary assists, then maybe 6-6.5 is the right money for 34. I almost forgot his playoff failures mirror those of Marner which is salient to the conversation so now I'm thinking 5-5.5 and stripping the C off of him would be the proper thing.

Now does that qualify to make it into the dumbest take derby?

 

[thusk]

Are you referring to his incredible 5v5 stats since Matthews injury?:

Marner since Matthewa injury:
7 games: 0 g 1 a 1 point, 2 shots

Lol and the lone assist was secondary!

He's really tearing it up! Lookout!

Since Matthews injury

Mcmann was team leader 3 goal and only player with at least 3 pts

Nylander goal 1 assist( his goal was to push a puck in an empty net)

Knies also with 1 pts and 1 assist
JT and OEL 2 assist

marner, reaves, benoit 1 assist

Timmins 1 goal

Did that mean Nylander, jt and all the people need matthews to score at 5v5?

Overall since Matthews injury

Marner 4 goal 12 pts
Nylander 4 goal 9 pts
Tavares 4 goal 8 pts
rielly 1 goal 7 pts
Knies 2 goal 5 pts
Mcmann 3 goal
holmberg 1 goal 2 pts
oel 2 pts

Its every player with more than 1 pts last 7 game where leafs won 6 of 7 game... Whonreally carrying the team? Its the fore whatever what the 5v5 stats telling, they was carrying the team

 

[therealkoho]

Geepers I remember Mitch must've been 7 or 8 when he started making up the story about dreaming to play for the Leafs. He was older than his years for sure, realizing even then that it would play well to the fan base.

 

[therealkoho]

You're wrong again, but that's normal.

Kucherov has the highest from the 2018-19 season to now.
Just that last 2+ seasons Marner is 5th.
Last season he was 8th.

But yes, if you go back far enough, and ignore that he has played with the best goal scorer in the league almost exclusively, you can make his numbers look reasonably good.

Sorry to have to use context against you again.

Arent you forgetting that you can't have one without the other?

 

[Dekes For Days]

@Dekes For Days claimed I don't read stats correctly, only to make the exact same error he accused me of.

I didn't make any error. You did. First you love <300 min samples, and use them to make ridiculous claims. Then suddenly, you're removing everything below 1000 minutes in a single-season sample to make other ridiculous claims. Then suddenly, you're complaining about me not including the <300 min outlier in a completely incomparable situation/role, that you didn't include either, because I didn't also arbitrarily ignore the player with double the sample in a similar situation/role to Matthews. Regardless of whether or not Pitlick is included, you were still wrong, and you're only demonstrating more and more that you don't understand how to use these metrics.

 

[diceman934]

He pretty much is every night. His play just seems a little more direct now, which IMO is the Berube affect, and with Matthews away he's not constantly on the lookout for 34. I always thought that he and Tavares were a good match, like to see them stick together.

Except in the playoffs as JT gets to goal focus and he fails to pass the puck.

 

[BraveCanadian]

The haters better join Berube, and the rest of us who know the value Marner brings to the Leafs, in hoping that he can find a way to a whole new gear in the playoffs.

Marner is still the engine of the Leafs in all situations.

 

[Jojalu]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1858651621028192657

It's getting harder to ignore that Kyper cares more about Marner's happiness than anything else. As long as he's on the team and gets his money, the rest don't matter.
Comparing Marner to Drai is embarassing. Good on JB calling him out

Kyper was only right about how it is incorrect to compare contracts.

The salary cap is working when players leapfrog over others. Mack jumped over McDavid, then Matthews jumped, then Drai.

Total number of dollars will always go up. Cap % becomes the bigger factor.

 

[arso40]

The haters better join Berube, and the rest of us who know the value Marner brings to the Leafs, in hoping that he can find a way to a whole new gear in the playoffs.

Marner is still the engine of the Leafs in all situations.

Only a few ignore his value but a many ignore his recent play when it matters but I agree I’m hoping he finds another gear in the playoffs and the reason he has to cause the drop off from magic Marner in season to playoffs is too big and he’s the engine of the team

 

[keonsbitterness]

I think that's fair, I'm even inclined to agree personally.

I also don't mind folks not agreeing since he's also been in the league for about 9 seasons and doesn't have that number on his stats sheet.

Imo no side has the definitive answer

GMs and agents care about pace. Most fans are only interested in numbers, which means 99 can never be 100.

 

[Antropovsky]

Because not only is it a big outlier for him in a small number of games, but more importantly, unlike Matthews and Guentzel, he did it in a sheltered role playing 9 minutes a game, which is not the same thing. It's called understanding the stats and how to use them.

Lol, I’m not going to let you strawman me or waste time on your made-up rules. Your entire goal is to shift the argument away from my point because you know it’s true, and it reflects badly on Marner.

I pointed out that Matthews was the best 5v5 goal scorer in the league during his first three NHL seasons, and in those years, he rarely played with Marner. I’m right. The attached stats prove it.

From 2016-2019, Matthews led the league in 5v5 goals with 1.52 goals/60, while the next closest NHL player was was 1.33 goals/60. During that span, he played just 231 minutes with Marner out of 3109 total minutes—about 7.5% of the time. Yeah, not much at all.

Point stands: anyone fortunate enough to play alongside the most prolific 5v5 goal scorer in the NHL (Matthews) is bound to rack up free 5v5 points (looking at you, Marner).

 

[Dekes For Days]

I pointed out that Matthews was the best 5v5 goal scorer in the league during his first three NHL seasons, and in those years, he rarely played with Marner. I’m right.

That's not what you said.
First you said that "Matthews led the league in g/60 in both of his first two seasons.". That was wrong.
Then that turned into "Matthews led the league in 5v5 goals per 60 in two of his first three seasons" That was also wrong.
Now you're switching it to "Matthews was the best 5v5 goal scorer in the league during his first three NHL seasons". That one is finally right.
However, the Marner-related conclusions that you're trying to draw from it are still wrong.
Matthews' G/60 has improved since, and his three best G/60 seasons came while playing primarily with Marner.
Marner was an elite 5v5 player prior to joining Matthews, and he produces just as well as Matthews.
Marner's linemate quality isn't much different than his peers, and he earns his points like anybody else.

You attempted to discredit Marner's excellent season by isolating a small sample of 5v5 production stats, but then the bigger sample of those 5v5 production stats showed Marner to be one of the best players in the world since 2018, so now you're scrambling to discredit everything he's ever done by falsely attributing it to somebody else.

 

[leafs in five]

and the lone assist was secondary!

 

[leafs in five]

to hang out on here coining phrases like Marner Only Fans to describe the legions of HFLeaf members who care exclusively about Mitch Marner's performance and empty calorie stats only to spend a streak where we've got points in 7 of 8 without our best player counting up Mitch Marner's even strength shots on goal

 

[francis246]

Whatever happened to, “it’s not how but how many”? Whenever the most of something wins that’s all that matters.

I’ll probably sound ignorant but it really shows who’s played a sport and who’s just sits behind a desk with Twitter fingers.

As an athlete no one is doing deep dives into their analytic stats. You might have a few guys who are into that. But for the rest, it’s pretty binary when you get on the ice, field, court. Win at all costs, doesn’t matter what it looks like, whether it’s pretty or ugly.

That’s how most professional athletes look at it, just as you described. Doesn’t matter how but how many. It’s just a shame we can’t just appreciate the team and the players doing well without trying to shit on one of Marner or Nylander. At the end of the day we’re blessed to have both.

 

[ACC1224]

to hang out on here coining phrases like Marner Only Fans to describe the legions of HFLeaf members who care exclusively about Mitch Marner's performance and empty calorie stats only to spend a streak where we've got points in 7 of 8 without our best player counting up Mitch Marner's even strength shots on goal

All things considered it doesn’t even sound too crazy when you put it like that

 

[notDatsyuk]

The haters better join Berube, and the rest of us who know the value Marner brings to the Leafs, in hoping that he can find a way to a whole new gear in the playoffs.

Marner is still the engine of the Leafs in all situations.

If he's the engine, we don't need a whole new gear - what we need is for the new mechanic (Berube) to figure out why the engine stalls early in the last lap of every race.

 

[thewave]

to hang out on here coining phrases like Marner Only Fans to describe the legions of HFLeaf members who care exclusively about Mitch Marner's performance and empty calorie stats only to spend a streak where we've got points in 7 of 8 without our best player counting up Mitch Marner's even strength shots on goal

It is the Mitch Marner Only Fans Breakfast Club on steroids. The only player in HFBoards history where I actively have seen a contingent of radically opinionated posters posting Mitch Marner the god talking points (promoting a bigger contract) that are so good they must have been direct from Ferris pen.

It's a comedy and basically the people that have mostly always been right about this team going back to 2012 and the age of Grabo and Kessel are calling out the same appeal the authority crowd now. We will be proven right again and HFBoards will keep on rolling along.

 

[leafs in five]

The only player in HFBoards history where I actively have seen a contingent of radically opinionated posters posting Mitch Marner the god talking points that are so good they must have been direct from Ferris pen.

yeah same I think Mitch Marner is the only player in HFBoards history where I actively have seen a contingent of radically opinionated posters posting Mitch Marner the god talking points that are so good they must have been direct from Ferris pen

 

[thewave]

yeah same I think Mitch Marner is the only player in HFBoards history where I actively have seen a contingent of radically opinionated posters posting Mitch Marner the god talking points that are so good they must have been direct from Ferris pen

I added the contract bit to the original. Usually people are trying to talk down a contract amount here because they know cap matters.

When Nylander was first seeking 7.5m last time around, people were saying he needs to be paid like 6m like Ehlers I think. Marner = 13.8m+++ somehow lol, what's next? Naming rights to the arena?

 

[francis246]

I added the contract bit to the original. Usually people are trying to talk down a contract amount here because they know cap matters.

When Nylander was first seeking 7.5m last time around, people were saying he needs to be paid like 6m like Ehlers I think. Marner = 13.8m+++ somehow lol, what's next? Naming rights to the arena?

Anyone who thinks to themselves Marner is worth 13.8, legitimately thinks he’s going to get 13.8, or is using it as a talking point in this thread needs to be evaluated for being delulu.

I’m sorry I can’t even take that serious. Where are you getting that number from? Just seems like you’re getting yourself all worked up over a number that’s not realistic at all.

 

[ACC1224]

Anyone who thinks to themselves Marner is worth 13.8, legitimately thinks he’s going to get 13.8, or is using it as a talking point in this thread needs to be evaluated for being delulu.

I’m sorry I can’t even take that serious. Where are you getting that number for? Just seems like you’re getting yourself all worked up over a number that’s not realistic at all.

It's what a few of them do. Make up whacky stuff, tell everyone how it won't happen and then inevitably when the whacky stuff doesn't happen, tell everyone how smart the are because they knew it wasn't happening.

Almost Trump like.

 

[Confucius]

Anyone who thinks to themselves Marner is worth 13.8, legitimately thinks he’s going to get 13.8, or is using it as a talking point in this thread needs to be evaluated for being delulu.

I’m sorry I can’t even take that serious. Where are you getting that number from? Just seems like you’re getting yourself all worked up over a number that’s not realistic at all.

Didn’t Kypreos float 14? I may be mistaken I’m just asking

 

[IPS]

Anyone who thinks to themselves Marner is worth 13.8, legitimately thinks he’s going to get 13.8, or is using it as a talking point in this thread needs to be evaluated for being delulu.

I’m sorry I can’t even take that serious. Where are you getting that number from? Just seems like you’re getting yourself all worked up over a number that’s not realistic at all.

The numbers in his 1st negotiation sounded ridiculous too until he got paid it

 

[Stephen]

Anyone who thinks to themselves Marner is worth 13.8, legitimately thinks he’s going to get 13.8, or is using it as a talking point in this thread needs to be evaluated for being delulu.

I’m sorry I can’t even take that serious. Where are you getting that number from? Just seems like you’re getting yourself all worked up over a number that’s not realistic at all.

I don’t remember which day of the week it was, but the conversation on Real Kyper got really heated about Marner plausibly asking for and deserving more than Auston Matthews. This was Kypreos’ position. So the escalation game is underway. With a cap increase of whatever it is, it’s not a slam dunk Marner would settle into the established framework.