Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Continued

[arso40]

Only on these boards do we call somebody who has:
1. Paced 100 points since 2018
2. Paced 100+ points in each of the last 4 individual seasons.
3. Hit 99 points.
Not a 100 point player.

That’s just not a smart response yet you laughed like it was your point was not proven not even the least bit

 

[ACC1224]

Pacing or expected isn’t the same as actual marners a great player, great enough that we don’t need to lie or boost his stats love him for what he is you guys just can’t seem to help yourselves huh

No one is lying or being dishonest about his pace.
If you're looking for dishonesty you can find a few of those doing that.

 

[Kurtz]

Doesn't add up, does it? Certain Marner supporters argue that he's such an elite playmaker that he shouldn't be judged on goals. Yet Matthews' goals per 60 increase by 101% when Domi is on his line instead of Marner?

Shockingly, the discrepancy in Matthews' points with vs. without Marner was even bigger the year before in 2023. Two years around 50% with and without Marner and Matthews p/60 improved substantially? Weird thats the case that he would improve when an 11 million dollar player is taken off his line, isnt it. All these "weird" things seem to happen with Marner—goalies suddenly going god mode, his setups mysteriously not being finished, going 100 games without a powerplay goal, or 18 playoff games without scoring Matthews more productive without him, At what point does is it just the player?

Right now, Marner isn't setting up anyone at 5v5. He has just one primary assist from an intentional pass, and we're 20% into the season. Back in 2019, Andrew Berkshire noted that Marner ranked only in the 20s league-wide as a playmaker.

Where there's smoke, there's fire.

View attachment 932768

Do you have the stats on Marner's 5 on 5 production with Austin vs without Austin?

I suspect that Mitch defers too much when he's with AM, and becomes a better all-around player/more dangerous scorer when he's away from him.

With Domi, he's just never going to shoot regardless, so it makes sense to pair him with AM instead of a Holmberg or Jarn or whomever.

Also, Mitch and AM are our two best defensive players, so there's temptation to deploy them on defensive zone faceoffs a lot. No such temptation with Domi.

 

[ACC1224]

Do you have the stats on Marner's 5 on 5 production with Austin vs without Austin?

I suspect that Mitch defers too much when he's with AM, and becomes a better all-around player/more dangerous scorer when he's away from him.

With Domi, he's just never going to shoot regardless, so it makes sense to pair him with AM instead of a Holmberg or Jarn or whomever.

Also, Mitch and AM are our two best defensive players, so there's temptation to deploy them on defensive zone faceoffs a lot. No such temptation with Domi.

Think I saw the other day that over the last 5 years only McDavid, Mackinnon and Matthews have more 5 on 5 points than Marner.

 

[arso40]

No one is lying or being dishonest about his pace.
If you're looking for dishonesty you can find a few of those doing that.

Pace isn’t actual though so to parade around like he’s a 100 point anything is false wouldn’t you say? Or are you saying it’s truthful cause you didn’t say it but your defending it I’m just trying to understand your take exactly

 

[ACC1224]

Pace isn’t actual though so to parade around like he’s a 100 point anything is false wouldn’t you say? Or are you saying it’s truthful cause you didn’t say it but your defending it I’m just trying to understand your take exactly

Saying he's a 100 point player is a conclusion someone would come to when using reason.

He had 97 points in 72 games.
He had 99 points in 80 games.
He had 85 points in 69 games.

Anyone without bias would conclude he would have reached 100 points in any of those seasons.

 

[Kurtz]

Who’s a hundred point selke finalist?

2 seasons ago, Mitch had 99 points in 80 games and finished 3rd in Selke voting.

So if we're being pedantic, he was not a 100 point Selke finalist, but he really was close enough to where he can be described as such without too much incredulity.

 

[ACC1224]

2 seasons ago, Mitch had 99 points in 80 games and finished 3rd in Selke voting.

So if we're being pedantic, he was not a 100 point Selke finalist, but he really was close enough to where he can be described as such without too much incredulity.

You would think so but here we are.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Regular season 100 pt selke player in the regular season

 

[arso40]

Saying he's a 100 point player is a conclusion someone would come to when using reason.

He had 97 points in 72 games.
He had 99 points in 80 games.
He had 85 points in 69 games.

Anyone without bias would conclude he would have reached 100 points in any of those seasons.

I don’t have a bias at all I just know projection doesn’t equal to actual we saw that with Willy last year as well as Matthews goal scoring so forgive me if actual is the only thing I’m going with like we haven’t actually made it out the first round since the trios been here but we’ve been projected to a couple times kinda thing you know I love marner as much as a typical leaf fan does he took pictures with us the other day I’m just not living in a fantasy world

 

[ACC1224]

I don’t have a bias at all I just know projection doesn’t equal to actual we saw that with Willy last year as well as Matthews goal scoring so forgive me if actual is the only thing I’m going with like we haven’t actually made it out the first round since the trios been here but we’ve been projected to a couple times kinda thing you know I love marner as much as a typical leaf fan does he took pictures with us the other day I’m just not living in a fantasy world

I don't believe Nylander has ever paced out to 100 points and not sure what these other projections you're referring to are.
Pace/projections of players is a tangible thing that would be used by Management and Agents when determining valuations. There is nothing 'fantasy' about it.

 

[DarkKnight]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1858923583902282089

Thought he had 'refused' to play Center?

https://x.com/i/web/status/1858930179004867022

Leaf fans know Brad.

Oh no, the GM(my bad) says he's putting the team on his back. Look out Craig, some keyboard warriors would like a word with your objective truth! It's so funny all those attacking "fan boys" here for making the same point the coach just did. It's okay to admit Marner has put the team on his back, is also TRUE.

Send your toxic retorts to [email protected]

 

[GoonieFace]

Oh no, the coach says he's putting the team on his back. Look out Craig, some keyboard warriors would like a word with your objective truth! It's so funny all those attacking "fan boys" here for making the same point the coach just did. It's okay to admit Marner has put the team on his back, is also TRUE.

Send your toxic retorts to [email protected]

Well, unless Brad Treleving is now the coach of the Leafs I guess you make sense.

Also, it’s a pretty stupid comment by a GM to say any one player is putting a team on his back. I’m sure the players would dismiss it as anything publicly, but privately they are probably wondering wtf Brad is talking about

 

[Antropovsky]

Do you have the stats on Marner's 5 on 5 production with Austin vs without Austin?

I suspect that Mitch defers too much when he's with AM, and becomes a better all-around player/more dangerous scorer when he's away from him.

With Domi, he's just never going to shoot regardless, so it makes sense to pair him with AM instead of a Holmberg or Jarn or whomever.

Also, Mitch and AM are our two best defensive players, so there's temptation to deploy them on defensive zone faceoffs a lot. No such temptation with DoDomi.

Since 2019, Marner has only played with Matthews and Tavares. Below are Marner's minutes played and points per 60 with Matthews and Tavares since 2020. As you can see, his points per 60 are consistently significantly lower with Tavares compared to Matthews. This aligns with what we know about Matthews' ability to elevate linemates 5v5 stats, such as Domi and Bertuzzi last year, and Marleau, Johnsson, and Kapanen in 2019 and 2020. Matthews consistnetlybis the leagues 5v5 g/60 leader. He was the 5v5 g/60 leader his first two years (yes rookie year) while playing with Marleau, Kapanen and Johnsson amd not with Marner. Matthews is clearly boosting Marner's stats, just as he did for those players. Which is why I don't listen when posters like @ACC1224 use Marners 5v5 stats as an indication he's a star player. If one used Marners 5v5 stats with Tavares, he'd be 20s and lower in 5v5 production. Keeping in mind also that many players don't play with players as talented as Tavares either.

2020 -
280 mins with Tavares
530 withs Matthews

2021 -
120 mins with Tavares
740 mins with Matthews

2022 -
265 mins with Tavares
740 mins with Matthews

2023 -
549 mins with Tavares
539 mins with Matthews

2024
225 mins with Tavares
720 mins with Matthews

 

[DarkKnight]

Well, unless Brad Treleving is now the coach of the Leafs I guess you make sense.

Also, it’s a pretty stupid comment by a GM to say any one player is putting a team on his back. I’m sure the players would dismiss it as anything publicly, but privately they are probably wondering wtf Brad is talking about

Actually you quibbling with the comment the other day was pretty stupid and Brad just confirmed it. It's okay to admit, why people have to pushback on a guy stepping up is beyond me. And yep, I saw the Berube comment and misused his name. But, you're free to listen to the coach the last few days reiterating exactly that.

Just enjoy the player, all we have is the regular season right now and if it doesn't matter, just log off and spare us the wisdom until May.

 

[francis246]

Well, unless Brad Treleving is now the coach of the Leafs I guess you make sense.

Also, it’s a pretty stupid comment by a GM to say any one player is putting a team on his back. I’m sure the players would dismiss it as anything publicly, but privately they are probably wondering wtf Brad is talking about

 

[GoonieFace]

Thanks for the thoughtful response Francis.

 

[francis246]

Thanks for the thoughtful response Francis.

I mean I was genuinely confused by your post

 

[GoonieFace]

Actually you quibbling with the comment the other day was pretty stupid and Brad just confirmed it. It's okay to admit, why people have to pushback on a guy stepping up is beyond me. And yep, I saw the Berube comment and misused his name. But, you're free to listen to the coach the last few days reiterating exactly that.

Just enjoy the player, all we have is the regular season right now and if it doesn't matter, just log off and spare us the wisdom until May.

Never said he wasn’t playing well, but putting the team on his back is a bit of a stretch. I’m enjoying the season so far, didn’t mean to offend you or Mitchell in any way

 

[peconcan]

Give him a shot down the middle. If it works out having Matthews Marner and Tavares down the middle is a deep team. A lot easier to trade for a winger then a center too

 

[Divine]

Only on these boards do we call somebody who has:
1. Paced 100 points since 2018, over a sample of 436 games.
2. Paced 100+ points in each of the last 4 individual seasons.
3. Hit 99 points.
Not a 100 point player.

Yeah, he's not a consistent 100 point player. You even said it in your post.

Is Nylander a 100 pt winger now too? Why stop at 99? Nylander is right there at 98.

 

[DarkKnight]

Never said he wasn’t playing well, but putting the team on his back is a bit of a stretch. I’m enjoying the season so far, didn’t mean to offend you or Mitchell in any way

Tell the GM, not me.

 

[francis246]

Tell the GM, not me.

Exactly, I’m not sure why we aren’t to believe the GM’s words. Also I was listening to the player practice scrum last week and a few players were saying the same kind of thing. So I’m not sure why the players would think wtf is Brad saying, if they have also been sharing the same sentiments. It’s pretty clear he has taken on a bigger leadership role since Matthews has been out and that includes on the ice, hope he, JT, Knies and Willy keep it up!

 

[DarkKnight]

Exactly, I’m not sure why we aren’t to believe the GM’s words. Also I was listening to the player practice scrum last week and a few players were saying the same kind of thing. So I’m not sure why the players would think wtf is Brad saying, if they have also been sharing the same sentiments. It’s pretty clear he has taken on a bigger leadership role since Matthews has been out and that includes on the ice, hope he, JT, Knies and Willy keep it up!

The players, the beat reporters, secure people, the brass, it's okay. Don't worry, he will have a bad turnover or go pointless during a three game losing streak and the toxicity will return.

As an aside. Bunkis podcast continually goes on and on about why Marner getting a crack at center. I texted them this weekend and said why doesn't anyone ask the coach because I am curious as well, checks a lot of boxes. Glad it's come up, I think his defensive acumen makes him a hard think there, for me just a matter if he can do draws.

 

[Confucius]

Well he’s not as of yet. Being able to play 82 games is a skill as well.

Yes being able to play and avoiding injuries is a positive. I as well find the statement well he played 82 games and the other guy only played 62, silly. They both got paid for 82, so the guy that played 62 accomplished nothing for 20 games right off the bat.