Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Continued

[Tie Domi Esquire]

6.9M for 5 years was a decent contract for Nylander.

Friedman reported that his sources and people he spoke to around the league indicated that Arizona was going to offer Matthews a 7 year/16M (or whatever the max was) contract. So Matthews really had all the leverage.

Marner on the otherhand was waiting to get offersheeted all summer so I don't get why they had to sign him to that. Let him miss the season.

I'm not going to rewrite or retell history. He got paid more than his comparables, including the players better than him. His artificially lowered cap hit was impossible with Marner or Matthews.

Marner did what he was supposed to do. He did what the team allowed the others to do. Pigeonholing him as if he's unique in being a playoff dud or being overpaid is silly. They're either all bum losers, or none of them are. I'll let you figure out which category.

The only thing unique about Marner is that the team's point percentage falls off a cliff with him not in the lineup.

Without Nylander: 70%
Without Matthews: 66% and rising everyday.
Without Marner: 53%

Marner's getting paid and the Leafs will not win. It was written in 2018 when the team's culture was irrepably destroyed.

 

[arso40]

I'm not going to rewrite or retell history. He got paid more than his comparables, including the players better than him. His artificially lowered cap hit was impossible with Marner or Matthews.

Marner did what he was supposed to do. He did what the team allowed the others to do. Pigeonholing him as if he's unique in being a playoff dud or being overpaid is silly. They're either all bum losers, or none of them are. I'll let you figure out which category.

The only thing unique about Marner is that the team's point percentage falls off a cliff with him not in the lineup.

Without Nylander: 70%
Without Matthews: 66% and rising everyday.
Without Marner: 53%

Marner's getting paid and the Leafs will not win. It was written in 2018 when the team's culture was irrepably destroyed.

Where’s those percentage stats and who are his compatibles he got more than ? He being Willy of course

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

Where’s those percentage stats and who are his compatibles he got more than ? He being Willy of course

I've posted the stats a bunch, you've replied to them so you already know this. Not going to post them again.

Gaudreau, Pastrnak, Ehlers, Connor. All better than Nylander when they signed, got varying levels of less.

Side note: Pastrnak has never gotten more than Nylander despite being significantly better and on the team that eliminates them often. Even after having a better season than Matthews' best season and leading his team to the best regular season record in history.

 

[arso40]

I've posted the stats a bunch, you've replied to them so you already know this. Not going to post them again.

Gaudreau, Pastrnak, Ehlers, Connor. All better than Nylander when they signed, got varying levels of less.

Side note: Pastrnak has never gotten more than Nylander despite being significantly better and on the team that eliminates them often. Even after having a better season than Matthews' best season and leading his team to the best regular season record in history.

The only one you could argue is pasta who he signed a year after gaudreau signed in 2016 get your facts straight ehlers was never better and Connor signed after as well looooooool the lengths some people go is crazy

 

[leafs in five]

so jealous of the team paying 11m for pastrnak

 

[Dekes For Days]

69 goal scoring Selke finalist centres have value believe it or not

Consistent 100+ point Two-way, Selke-finalist, all-situations wingers have value too, believe it or not.

I don't understand why we have to be the standard for overpaying players?

We're not. We're the standard for fans choosing not to understand how contracts work.

If we sign Marner to that contract, there's a good chance Rantanen signs the next week for less- the exact same thing that happened with Marner's RFA contract.

He probably will, since Marner is a better player; just like he was when they signed their last contracts.

You think he would have agreed to the Nylander/Point/Rantanen contracts?

Of course not. He was better than them.

I never understood why the team took such a hard stand with Nylander and then gave Matthews and Marner those contracts.

They took a hard stand with all of them. Matthews and Marner were much better players with more leverage, offer sheet threats, and in-season signing cap complications, but the main reason there was no hold out for them was because they were willing to accept a reasonable contract sooner,

Matthews had 'credible rumours' of an Arizona offersheet - so okay, I guess.

And Marner received two confirmed offer sheets.

Should have let him sit the year.

What a horrible decision that would have been. Teams don't throw away seasons and one of the best players in the world to avoid signing a fair contract.

 

[DarkKnight]

Watched Kypreos, he was making a tortured point, that then became absurd. What was correct, Matthews and Nylander both got paid, Nylander way over and Matthews over on term, neither are worth their ticket, based on the same logic with Marner. That doesn’t mean however he is worth what Kipper says here, it will fit in with the other two Dubas legacy internals. I do agree if Marner goes to free agency he would get more, someone will vastly overpay, with a rising cap, it isn’t as egregious as some argue here.

 

[thusk]

6.9M for 5 years was a decent contract for Nylander.

Friedman reported that his sources and people he spoke to around the league indicated that Arizona was going to offer Matthews a 7 year/16M (or whatever the max was) contract. So Matthews really had all the leverage.

Marner on the otherhand was waiting to get offersheeted all summer so I don't get why they had to sign him to that. Let him miss the season.

Much more easier let's sit a 20 goal 61 high pts player than a 26 goal and 94 pts who already playing against top matchup

 

[TheDoldrums]

so jealous of the team paying 11m for pastrnak

Yeah Boston looks great right now

 

[ACC1224]

Really having an excellent season.
Hate to see where this team would be without him carrying the load through these injuries.

 

[ToneDog]

Watched Kypreos, he was making a tortured point, that then became absurd. What was correct, Matthews and Nylander both got paid, Nylander way over and Matthews over on term, neither are worth their ticket, based on the same logic with Marner. That doesn’t mean however he is worth what Kipper says here, it will fit in with the other two Dubas legacy internals. I do agree if Marner goes to free agency he would get more, someone will vastly overpay, with a rising cap, it isn’t as egregious as some argue here.

Since you overpaid 34 and 88, the question becomes, do you overpay Marner and keep running it back until one or more leave? For me the answer is no, but if the Leafs insist, then only if they get past round #2. You cannot run it back if we see a repeat of one of the last two playoffs if you are not here to sell jerseys. Pretty simple IMO.

A 2-4 year, $12m deal does not make me puke like his last deal but I really need to see Marner's playoff performance before I continue to bet on the three amigos. Having said that, I do not think this core has what it takes to win a Stanley Cup. Not one of them has shown me that they can win you a series, let alone 4.

 

[ACC1224]

Masters: Marner steps up for Leafs with Matthews in 'holding pattern' | TSN

Mitch Marner leads the Leafs with 10 points in the six games that Auston Matthews, his long-time linemate, has missed. That includes working overtime, Mark Masters writes.

www.tsn.ca

Mitch Marner leads the Leafs with 10 points in the six games that Matthews, his long-time linemate, has missed.

"Mitch has been a real good player all year in all areas of the game," Berube said. "PK, power play, 5-on-5, whatever we ask him to do, he's doing it."

That includes working overtime.

Marner made a great defensive play to break up a 2-on-1 rush by Leon Draisaitl and Connor McDavid in overtime on Saturday night before scoring on a 2-on-1 rush the other way.

"Those are games you kind of live for," Marner said

With 18 assists, Marner has 10 more helpers than any other teammate this season. But the star winger decided to call his own number on the overtime rush with John Tavares.

"I thought he was passing it," said winger Matthew Knies with a smile. "I thought everyone [did]. That's why he's a dual threat. He shoots the puck so well, too. It's kind of hard to keep him off the scoresheet."
Marner has consistently spoke about wanting to be more of a shooting threat. Again, prior to this season, he brought that up. But Marner scored just twice in the first 14 games while registering only 36 shots on target (2.6 per game).

With Saturday's goal, Marner has now lit the lamp in four of the last five games, although he's not shooting much more. Marner has landed 14 shots on net in the last five games (2.8 per outing).

"I guess just getting it off the stick quickly," Marner said of his goal rush. "Finding my spots."

Marner's average last season was 2.6 shots per game.

"He's a heck of a playmaker," Berube said. "So, I understand why he doesn't shoot more at times. But when he has the opportunities in good spots, he should shoot for sure."

Marner's line, with Tavares and Bobby McMann, was matched up against McDavid all night.

"It's probably the hardest challenge in the entire NHL right now," Marner said. "So, just try to stay above him. You just got to know you're going to stay patient all game because if you cheat, it's usually going to end up in the back of the net. It's not just a one-guy thing, though. I think, as a five-man unit, we did a pretty good job."

McDavid scored on the power play and assisted on a 6-on-5 goal, but finished the night a season-worst minus-three. Marner, meanwhile, was plus-three in Toronto's 4-3 win.

Marner forced a McDavid turnover on the play that led to McMann's first of two goals on Saturday.

"He's so good at reading the play all the time, anticipating, knowing where the puck's going," McMann gushed. "And that's just who he is, and sometimes you take it for granted."

After Ryan Reaves was assessed a five-minute major in the second period, Marner played a key role in killing off the penalty. He logged a team high 24 minutes.

"It's just another day for Mitch Marner," said goalie Anthony Stolarz. "He's a great two-way player and someone that we appreciate. You watch his game, the way he goes up and down the ice and gives his all, and I'm happy to see him get rewarded with that goal."

 

[tuckerintensity]

Marner's getting paid and the Leafs will not win. It was written in 2018 when the team's culture was irrepably destroyed.

Funny you should use 2018, the same year that Ovechkin was no longer a bum loser who couldn't win.

 

[Divine]

Consistent 100+ point Two-way, Selke-finalist, all-situations wingers have value too, believe it or not.

Only on these boards do we call a player who's never scored 100 points once in his career a consistent 100+ point winger

 

[ACC1224]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1858923583902282089

Thought he had 'refused' to play Center?

https://x.com/i/web/status/1858930179004867022

Leaf fans know Brad.

 

[arso40]

Consistent 100+ point Two-way, Selke-finalist, all-situations wingers have value too, believe it or not.

We're not. We're the standard for fans choosing not to understand how contracts work.

He probably will, since Marner is a better player; just like he was when they signed their last contracts.

Of course not. He was better than them.

They took a hard stand with all of them. Matthews and Marner were much better players with more leverage, offer sheet threats, and in-season signing cap complications, but the main reason there was no hold out for them was because they were willing to accept a reasonable contract sooner,

And Marner received two confirmed offer sheets.

What a horrible decision that would have been. Teams don't throw away seasons and one of the best players in the world to avoid signing a fair contract.

Who’s a hundred point selke finalist?

 

[ACC1224]

Who’s a hundred point selke finalist?

He's referring to Marner. It's in the title of the thread.

 

[Confucius]

so jealous of the team paying 11m for pastrnak

We better not give Mitch more than 11. I don’t care if some think William is overpaid, 2 wrongs won’t make it right. Jump off this merrygoround

 

[ACC1224]

We better not give Mitch more than 11. I don’t care if some think William is overpaid, 2 wrongs won’t make it right. Jump off this merrygoround

They needed to make that statement with Nylander. Not going to happen now.

 

[arso40]

He's referring to Marner. It's in the title of the thread.

When did he get a 100? Did I miss a year? Antropovsky get em !!!!

 

[ACC1224]

When did he get a 100? Did I miss a year?

Not sure what you've missed, seems many don't watch very closely.

He's paced out to 100 or so over 82 games. Leaf fans and really anyone reasonable would accept that he's a 100 point player.

 

[GoonieFace]

Not sure what you've missed, seems many don't watch very closely.

He's paced out to 100 or so over 82 games. Leaf fans and really anyone reasonable would accept that he's a 100 point player.

Well he’s not as of yet. Being able to play 82 games is a skill as well.

 

[Antropovsky]

Matthews produced 1.61 more goals per 60 minutes with Domi, which is approximately a 101.90% increase compared to when playing with Marner

it's the second decimal place that really makes it

Doesn't add up, does it? Certain Marner supporters argue that he's such an elite playmaker that he shouldn't be judged on goals. Yet Matthews' goals per 60 increase by 101% when Domi is on his line instead of Marner?

Shockingly, the discrepancy in Matthews' points with vs. without Marner was even bigger the year before in 2023. Two years around 50% with and without Marner and Matthews p/60 improved substantially? Weird thats the case that he would improve when an 11 million dollar player is taken off his line, isnt it. All these "weird" things seem to happen with Marner—goalies suddenly going god mode, his setups mysteriously not being finished, going 100 games without a powerplay goal, or 18 playoff games without scoring Matthews more productive without him, At what point does is it just the player?

Right now, Marner isn't setting up anyone at 5v5. He has just one primary assist from an intentional pass, and we're 20% into the season. Back in 2019, Andrew Berkshire noted that Marner ranked only in the 20s league-wide as a playmaker.

Where there's smoke, there's fire.

 

[arso40]

Not sure what you've missed, seems many don't watch very closely.

He's paced out to 100 or so over 82 games. Leaf fans and really anyone reasonable would accept that he's a 100 point player.

Pacing or expected isn’t the same as actual marners a great player, great enough that we don’t need to lie or boost his stats love him for what he is you guys just can’t seem to help yourselves huh

 

[Dekes For Days]

Only on these boards do we call a player who's never scored 100 points once in his career a consistent 100+ point winger

Only on these boards do we call somebody who has:
1. Paced 100 points since 2018, over a sample of 436 games.
2. Paced 100+ points in each of the last 4 individual seasons.
3. Hit 99 points.
Not a 100 point player.