Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Again

[Smif]

Problem I have with Marner is that he is a singles hitter who can't hit his weight in October but wants to be paid like a top power hitter.

Meh, gimme an Ichiro type any day. He was also a very good defensive player if I'm not mistaken. Seems like a decent comparison.

Can't stand baseball since it went to the HR or bust mentality.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Nothing screams great argument like completely making shit up!

Nothing there is made up.

 

[Smif]

And the Leafs and some so called fans want to see him screw them over again after 5 subsequent poor playoff performances and one series win.

Matthews did the exact same thing except wouldn't commit long term but let's just blame Marner.for everything.

 

[Sundinisagod]

Matthews did the exact same thing except wouldn't commit long term but let's just blame Marner.for everything.

Difference being, Matthews actually lived up to his previous contract, so him getting a 1.6 million dollar raise isn’t so egregious.

Marner was overpaid 2m per season on his last deal, and now he wants a 3 million dollar raise. See the difference?

 

[ToneDog]

Matthews did the exact same thing except wouldn't commit long term but let's just blame Marner.for everything.

Matthews is a unicorn. He has a hallway pass with management and the fans. I blame all 3 but Marner is the worst with Matthews close behind.

 

[REALTALK81]

Meh, gimme an Ichiro type any day. He was also a very good defensive player if I'm not mistaken. Seems like a decent comparison.

Can't stand baseball since it went to the HR or bust mentality.

Devon White was essential to the Jays as well.

 

[francis246]

Matthews is a unicorn. He has a hallway pass with management and the fans. I blame all 3 but Marner is the worst with Matthews close behind.

Matthews doesn’t get a hall pass from me. He’s the most greedy out of the three. He’s just smart enough to be quiet about it.

Let’s call a spade a spade. Marner was the hometown boy that everyone EXPECTED to take a discount because he loves the leafs. When he didn’t and his agent negotiated publicly he lost the fans. That’s on Marner. But he was doomed from the start bc everyone expected him to take the discount and that is pure delusion on our part.

 

[William Johnson]

I mean TSN ran the story. I’m not sure they are running that without verifying the truth about it. Many other outlets ran the story. So it’s likely true that he got two offer sheets. Maybe the AAV numbers of those offer sheets are fabricated or enhanced for public perception or leverage in negotiations but I doubt they are lying about receiving offer sheets.

Didn’t Dreger and frideman both speak to the offer sheets as well? I swear someone quoted frideman yesterday speaking on the offer sheets

Thanks for the reply. I agree in principle that you'd hope (and expect?) TSN would have verified the story and not just taken the Marner camp's word for it. This is the point I was making -- I was/am aware of the reports then/now about the offer sheets but I am not aware of any report which said they actually DID verify this through speaking to someone else with first-hand knowledge. My original point was to clarify what constitutes a 'fact' as far as I'm concerned. But, then again, I'm old and my sports journalism/agency days are far, far behind me so maybe my standards for facts and objectivity are a bit out of date.

I also agree with Stephen that none of this likely matters much in the grand scheme of things as the polarising perception of Marner with regard to his agent and his contract demands is well embedded in parts of the fan base.

 

[Smif]

Difference being, Matthews actually lived up to his previous contract, so him getting a 1.6 million dollar raise isn’t so egregious.

Marner was overpaid 2m per season on his last deal, and now he wants a 3 million dollar raise. See the difference?

How so? Just because he has regular season hardware? I thought all we talked about in here was playoff performances? Which is it?

All the Anti-Marner fans are hypocritical.

 

[Smif]

Difference being, Matthews actually lived up to his previous contract, so him getting a 1.6 million dollar raise isn’t so egregious.

Marner was overpaid 2m per season on his last deal, and now he wants a 3 million dollar raise. See the difference?

I'm in purchasing & procurement for a living. Sometimes I have to buy an item for $25, a month later I have to buy the same item for $35. The item didn't change, just the timing. Marner has got max value on all of his deals due to timing and timing only. If Marner and Matthews were due at the same time the difference would be a lot more obvious.

That's why people here preach to.only use percentage of cap and not actual dollars, that should be the only metric used in assessing contract values.

 

[Sundinisagod]

How so? Just because he has regular season hardware? I thought all we talked about in here was playoff performances? Which is it?

All the Anti-Marner fans are hypocritical.

Matthews is in a different tier than Marner.

Matthews lived up to his contract in the regular season, not in playoffs. Marner didn’t live up to his deal either in regular season or playoffs.

 

[Sundinisagod]

I'm in purchasing & procurement for a living. Sometimes I have to buy an item for $25, a month later I have to buy the same item for $35. The item didn't change, just the timing. Marner has got max value on all of his deals due to timing and timing only. If Marner and Matthews were due at the same time the difference would be a lot more obvious.

That's why people here preach to.only use percentage of cap and not actual dollars, that should be the only metric used in assessing contract values.

Ok fine, Marner’s cap hit percentage was too close to Matthews on their rfa deals, and the same will be true on their ufa deals.

There is quite a significant separation between the two.

 

[ToneDog]

Devon White was essential to the Jays as well.

The game has changed in the last 30 years but Devo was another beauty but he was not close to being top 10 in salary in MLB? Mitch wants to be top 5 in the NHL. If he only had as big balls on the ice that he has off the ice.

 

[ToneDog]

I'm in purchasing & procurement for a living. Sometimes I have to buy an item for $25, a month later I have to buy the same item for $35. The item didn't change, just the timing. Marner has got max value on all of his deals due to timing and timing only. If Marner and Matthews were due at the same time the difference would be a lot more obvious.

That's why people here preach to.only use percentage of cap and not actual dollars, that should be the only metric used in assessing contract values.

What's the difference of they are $1m apart or 1% apart for example? The Avs offered Ranta a max of $11.75m. When he did not accept it, they decided to move on. If Mitch wants to be the highest paid Leaf, they should let him walk.

 

[Smif]

Ok fine, Marner’s cap hit percentage was too close to Matthews on their rfa deals, and the same will be true on their ufa deals.

There is quite a significant separation between the two.

Tbh, it's actually really hard to determine cap percentage properly right now with the league throwing a curveball and announcing 3 straight years of cap increases at the same time. Yet another time Marner is benefitting with his contract timing.

Who in the world knows what agents are doing with this information but it definitely isn't good for us fans and management.

 

[ToneDog]

Matthews is in a different tier than Marner.

Matthews lived up to his contract in the regular season, not in playoffs. Marner didn’t live up to his deal either in regular season or playoffs.

Not if you ignore all the regular season hardware he's won and Mitch has not. But hey, Mitch is second in assists this year, with 4 more goals than Corey f***ing Perry.

 

[Gabriel426]

I mean TSN ran the story. I’m not sure they are running that without verifying the truth about it. Many other outlets ran the story. So it’s likely true that he got two offer sheets. Maybe the AAV numbers of those offer sheets are fabricated or enhanced for public perception or leverage in negotiations but I doubt they are lying about receiving offer sheets.

Didn’t Dreger and frideman both speak to the offer sheets as well? I swear someone quoted frideman yesterday speaking on the offer sheets

Having offersheet offers and signing offersheet offers are two completely different things.

There were probably offersheet offers but MM didn’t sign any of them.

The question and discussion should not be whether or not did any teams OS MM but rather what was the caphit and term of such OS. How likely would teams offer something similar or better to what Leafs offered? Would that number be more than what they signed for at the end, which was the 7th highest paid player in the league and 2nd highest paid winger? Also what about terms and NMC/NTC? Lastly location of said teams?

This is not hindsight, but if I was Dubas, I would dare MM to sign the OS and then evaluate whether or not to match.

Meh, gimme an Ichiro type any day. He was also a very good defensive player if I'm not mistaken. Seems like a decent comparison.

Can't stand baseball since it went to the HR or bust mentality.

Don’t think Ichiro was never top 10 in salary

 

[ToneDog]

Having offersheet offers and signing offersheet offers are two completely different things.

There were probably offersheet offers but MM didn’t sign any of them.

The question and discussion should not be whether or not did any teams OS MM but rather what was the caphit and term of such OS. How likely would teams offer something similar or better to what Leafs offered? Would that number be more than what they signed for at the end, which was the 7th highest paid player in the league and 2nd highest paid winger? Also what about terms and NMC/NTC? Lastly location of said teams?

This is not hindsight, but if I was Dubas, I would dare MM to sign the OS and then evaluate whether or not to match.


Don’t think Ichiro was never top 10 in salary

I heard when Kyle was buying a house in Pittsburgh listed for $1m, the agent told him there was a bid on the house for $2m, so Kyle bought the house for $3m because he could and he did.

 

[ToneDog]

Having offersheet offers and signing offersheet offers are two completely different things.

There were probably offersheet offers but MM didn’t sign any of them.

The question and discussion should not be whether or not did any teams OS MM but rather what was the caphit and term of such OS. How likely would teams offer something similar or better to what Leafs offered? Would that number be more than what they signed for at the end, which was the 7th highest paid player in the league and 2nd highest paid winger? Also what about terms and NMC/NTC? Lastly location of said teams?

This is not hindsight, but if I was Dubas, I would dare MM to sign the OS and then evaluate whether or not to match.


Don’t think Ichiro was never top 10 in salary

Soto, Judge, Ohtani and Harper are not being paid hundreds of millions of dollars because they are hitting 200 singles a season. They are also not being paid more for their super, elite defense. LOL.

 

[GoonieFace]

Soto, Judge, Ohtani and Harper are not being paid hundreds of millions of dollars because they are hitting 200 singles a season. They are also not being paid more for their super, elite defense. LOL.

It’s pretty simple for me. I don’t like the style of hockey he plays. I don’t think he can create his own offence like Matthews and Nylander. It’s also much easier to neutralize in the playoffs. He’s not a great skater and he’s not physically strong. He’s probably at his physical peak and it’s downhill from here. An 8 year deal may be ugly

 

[Sundinisagod]

Tbh, it's actually really hard to determine cap percentage properly right now with the league throwing a curveball and announcing 3 straight years of cap increases at the same time. Yet another time Marner is benefitting with his contract timing.

Who in the world knows what agents are doing with this information but it definitely isn't good for us fans and management.

Worth noting Colorado just showed they’re operating in real world dollars not cap percentages. I think a lot of owners, who are signing the cheques, would feel similarly.