Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Again

[leafan11]

What’s the most Marner will get as a UFA? 14x7 ? Let’s just say a crazy team offers him 15x7 =105 . 105/8=13.125 . I can’t understand for the life of me how 13.25x8 isn’t a fair offer for both sides. If the Leafs were a smart , leak it to the press you offered him $105 million over 8 years and watch him squirm.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Again, not a GM in the league, your bias is irrelevant. I mean I could argue he's more valuable to the team than Matthews, doesn't make it true.

I suppose you could make an argument for it, but no, Nylander is not more valuable than Matthews.

 

[francis246]

Which is the correct mindset. Why should anyone take less when the top players are simply saying give me max, you take the discount, more for me. Looking at you Mitch I am as good as Matthews Marner

It all started with Matthews. He was the first to take the leafs to the woodshed. After that it was a trickle down effect. Matthews cashed in on AAV without giving max term. Marner followed suit and Nylander followed suit recently. I’m not sure why you would be looking at Marner. Marner and Nylander didn’t take discounts because they feel they are also impactful players for the team (which is true). So if Matthews isn’t going to think about the team first, why should they?

There’s a gap between Matthews and then Marner and Nylander but the gap between Matthews and the other two isn’t some substantial gap. That’s why we are in this situation.

 

[francis246]

I’m not so convinced that Nylander ever actually said this, and even if he did, he would have known full well that Matthews wasn’t giving any sort of discount, we all knew that much. Personally I think Marner’s rfa deal played a bigger part in Nylander’s demands than Matthews ufa deal.

That had everything to do with Matthews ufa demands..

If you recall, Nylander was never asking for huge money when he was coming out of his RFA deal. The deal he eventually got or whatever was what he was asking for the entire time.

When he resigned recently, Matthews was also up for renewal. There is no question he was talking about Matthews. Like who else would he be talking about LOL?

 

[ToneDog]

It all started with Matthews. He was the first to take the leafs to the woodshed. After that it was a trickle down effect. Matthews cashed in on AAV without giving max term. Marner followed suit and Nylander followed suit recently. I’m not sure why you would be looking at Marner. Marner and Nylander didn’t take discounts because they feel they are also impactful players for the team (which is true). So if Matthews isn’t going to think about the team first, why should they?

There’s a gap between Matthews and then Marner and Nylander but the gap between Matthews and the other two isn’t some substantial gap. That’s why we are in this situation.

Sadly it started with Tavares and the Leafs not realizing how greedy the 3 wolves were.

 

[likecheese]

Sadly it started with Tavares and the Leafs not realizing how greedy the 3 wolves were.

It started with the guy who threw all that money at JT, knowing that 3 large contracts were coming up. I was dumb enough to assume there was a plan (ie. assurance of some hometown discounts) to build a team around 4 giant contracts on all forwards. But the plan was just "sign and pray".

 

[francis246]

It started with the guy who threw all that money at JT, knowing that 3 large contracts were coming up. I was dumb enough to assume there was a plan (ie. assurance of some hometown discounts) to build a team around 4 giant contracts on all forwards. But the plan was just "sign and pray".

@ToneDog

the truth of the matter was Tavares was coming here regardless. The leafs went hard after Stamkos the year before. If they missed out on Tavares, they would have went hard after Pietrangelo the year after. The fact of the matter is the Leafs were big game hunting for their fish. That was a board decision clearly, not just GM. so it didn't matter if Dubas was the GM or Hunter was the GM or Lou was the GM, they were going to throw the money at JT.

If you really want to pin point what maybe screwed us over, it was probably Marleau. He was the wrong mentor for these guys. That contract set a chain of events years prior that the leafs had to pay for.

 

[Stringer Bell]

Marner has an inferiority complex with Matthews, unfortunately. Or his dad does. Or both. Not sure.

 

[Gary Nylund]

It all started with Matthews. He was the first to take the leafs to the woodshed. After that it was a trickle down effect. Matthews cashed in on AAV without giving max term. Marner followed suit and Nylander followed suit recently. I’m not sure why you would be looking at Marner. Marner and Nylander didn’t take discounts because they feel they are also impactful players for the team (which is true). So if Matthews isn’t going to think about the team first, why should they?

There’s a gap between Matthews and then Marner and Nylander but the gap between Matthews and the other two isn’t some substantial gap. That’s why we are in this situation.

Didn't Nylander take max term? Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe he did so this issue is restricted to M&M and nobody else.

I think it's correct to say that Matthews started it, but that's where it should have stopped. Matthews is a unicorn, there is zero reason to draw parallels between Matthews and Marner so bottom line, Dubas should have never caved to Marner and that would have been the end of it.

Now it's up to Tre to NOT follow in Dubas' footsteps and stop the nonsense. It's always been ridiculous to compare these two players, Matthews>>>>>Marner, period.

Marner has an inferiority complex with Matthews, unfortunately. Or his dad does. Or both. Not sure.

Yeah it's weird. He is inferior but so is almost every other player in the NHL so no biggie, no reason to have a complex.

 

[likecheese]

@ToneDog

the truth of the matter was Tavares was coming here regardless. The leafs went hard after Stamkos the year before. If they missed out on Tavares, they would have went hard after Pietrangelo the year after. The fact of the matter is the Leafs were big game hunting for their fish. That was a board decision clearly, not just GM. so it didn't matter if Dubas was the GM or Hunter was the GM or Lou was the GM, they were going to throw the money at JT.

If you really want to pin point what maybe screwed us over, it was probably Marleau. He was the wrong mentor for these guys. That contract set a chain of events years prior that the leafs had to pay for.

Marleau, geez, someone should write a book about how this whole thing failed, just a long series of bad moves. Obviously, spending that 4th large contract on a stud dman would have been the correct thing to do, and we did have Kadri to pencil in at 2C.

 

[Sundinisagod]

That had everything to do with Matthews ufa demands..

If you recall, Nylander was never asking for huge money when he was coming out of his RFA deal. The deal he eventually got or whatever was what he was asking for the entire time.

When he resigned recently, Matthews was also up for renewal. There is no question he was talking about Matthews. Like who else would he be talking about LOL?

Are there any quotes out there from Nylander saying this ??

 

[francis246]

Are there any quotes out there from Nylander saying this ??

There’s multiple articles and insiders who spoke on this. Dubas ended up caving to the exact same deal Nylanders camp put on the table in the summer.

 

[Gary Nylund]

There’s multiple articles and insiders who spoke on this. Dubas ended up caving to the exact same deal Nylanders camp put on the table in the summer.

I seem to remember Nylander's camp being the one who made contact with less than hour to go which suggests that he's the one who decided to move off his position.

1 minute of googling led me to this:

It was the 22-year-old forward who, along with agent Lewis Gross, finally picked up the phone 45 minutes prior to the signing deadline to get a deal worked out. Had he not signed prior to 5 p.m. eastern time on Saturday, Nylander would’ve been forced to miss the entire 2018/19 NHL season.
“I was like ‘well, now we have to get something going here, deadline is coming up.’ I talked to the (players’ association) and they said the contract should be done by 4:30, so that’s when I called. It was tight.”

...

In the end, Nylander came down from a reported $8 million per season ask to ink a deal, which carries a cap hit of $10.28 million this season and $6.9 million in years 2-6.

IIHF - Nylander back on ice

Swede meets deadline, inks new six-year deal with Maple Leafs

www.iihf.com

Sure sounds like he's the one who caved at the last minute. So where are you getting this Dubas caved stuff from?

 

[ToneDog]

@ToneDog

the truth of the matter was Tavares was coming here regardless. The leafs went hard after Stamkos the year before. If they missed out on Tavares, they would have went hard after Pietrangelo the year after. The fact of the matter is the Leafs were big game hunting for their fish. That was a board decision clearly, not just GM. so it didn't matter if Dubas was the GM or Hunter was the GM or Lou was the GM, they were going to throw the money at JT.

If you really want to pin point what maybe screwed us over, it was probably Marleau. He was the wrong mentor for these guys. That contract set a chain of events years prior that the leafs had to pay for.

I was all in for signing Tavares. I just did not consider the consequences when it came to negotiations with the 3 amigos. I never understood signing Marleau. That was Lou's dumbest move.

 

[Sundinisagod]

There’s multiple articles and insiders who spoke on this. Dubas ended up caving to the exact same deal Nylanders camp put on the table in the summer.

I thought we were discussing Nylander's ufa deal that Tre signed??

 

[BraveCanadian]

Nope, not wrong

Oh sorry I forgot that everyone here agreed Willy was a playoff stud even though he’s been an abject failure and is third among these guys in points over their careers.

 

[thewave]

Oh sorry I forgot that everyone here agreed Willy was a playoff stud even though he’s been an abject failure and is third among these guys in points over their careers.

He has performed relative to his contract. Matched top goal scoring and hit points per game roughly equal to MM and AM in the past 5 years.

You just tried to play Apple Orange Mac Truck.

 

[GoonieFace]

Oh sorry I forgot that everyone here agreed Willy was a playoff stud even though he’s been an abject failure and is third among these guys in points over their careers.

Compared to M and M he is a stud. But just keep looking at Marners crumby point totals and 11 career playoff goals. At least Matthews and Nylander have had some big playoff moments. Marners claim to fame is not scoring a goal in 2 consecutive playoff series and throwing pucks over the boards. Thank god Vasi was a sieve that series to inflate Marners playoff stats.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Keep telling yourselves that and making the excuses. It’s embarrassing. I can’t wait until we have someone who really steps up again.

 

[Hallonbroder]

Oh sorry I forgot that everyone here agreed Willy was a playoff stud even though he’s been an abject failure and is third among these guys in points over their careers.

Don’t be salty now, Willy’s almost Canadian

 

[1specter]

I seem to remember Nylander's camp being the one who made contact with less than hour to go which suggests that he's the one who decided to move off his position.

1 minute of googling led me to this:

It was the 22-year-old forward who, along with agent Lewis Gross, finally picked up the phone 45 minutes prior to the signing deadline to get a deal worked out. Had he not signed prior to 5 p.m. eastern time on Saturday, Nylander would’ve been forced to miss the entire 2018/19 NHL season.
“I was like ‘well, now we have to get something going here, deadline is coming up.’ I talked to the (players’ association) and they said the contract should be done by 4:30, so that’s when I called. It was tight.”

...

In the end, Nylander came down from a reported $8 million per season ask to ink a deal, which carries a cap hit of $10.28 million this season and $6.9 million in years 2-6.

IIHF - Nylander back on ice

Swede meets deadline, inks new six-year deal with Maple Leafs

www.iihf.com

Sure sounds like he's the one who caved at the last minute. So where are you getting this Dubas caved stuff from?

He definitely mixed up Tre and Dubas' contracts with Nylander.

Keep telling yourselves that and making the excuses. It’s embarrassing. I can’t wait until we have someone who really steps up again.

Lol. Which one made 6.9M AAV, as opposed to 10.9M AAV+? Pretty stupid to criticize the one who had the most playoff goals the last 5 years at 40% less salary as the 'abject failure' of the group.

 

[arso40]

most star players play with at least one other star player

Tell that to the guy in minni tell that to the other guy in Boston,

 

[notDatsyuk]

@ToneDog

the truth of the matter was Tavares was coming here regardless. The leafs went hard after Stamkos the year before. If they missed out on Tavares, they would have went hard after Pietrangelo the year after. The fact of the matter is the Leafs were big game hunting for their fish. That was a board decision clearly, not just GM. so it didn't matter if Dubas was the GM or Hunter was the GM or Lou was the GM, they were going to throw the money at JT.

If you really want to pin point what maybe screwed us over, it was probably Marleau. He was the wrong mentor for these guys. That contract set a chain of events years prior that the leafs had to pay for.

Missing on JT and getting Pietrangelo instead would have been much better. A 1D instead of an overpriced 2C? Absolutely!

 

[Gabriel426]

@ToneDog

the truth of the matter was Tavares was coming here regardless. The leafs went hard after Stamkos the year before. If they missed out on Tavares, they would have went hard after Pietrangelo the year after. The fact of the matter is the Leafs were big game hunting for their fish. That was a board decision clearly, not just GM. so it didn't matter if Dubas was the GM or Hunter was the GM or Lou was the GM, they were going to throw the money at JT.

If you really want to pin point what maybe screwed us over, it was probably Marleau. He was the wrong mentor for these guys. That contract set a chain of events years prior that the leafs had to pay for.

I have been saying it was Marleau all along. Not his contract but his attitude as a player and how he probably tell the guys to take care of themselves instead of the team as anyone can be traded..... It is a reason why he plays all these games without ever winning the big one.

 

[Gabriel426]

Oh sorry I forgot that everyone here agreed Willy was a playoff stud even though he’s been an abject failure and is third among these guys in points over their careers.

We like to lump Willie with AM and MM. Which is fair as Willie is a talented player. However, prior to this season, Willie was making 2/3 or less of what AM, MM and JT are making. IF Willie's production is similar to AM, and MM, it means Willie is on a much better contract.

Missing on JT and getting Pietrangelo instead would have been much better. A 1D instead of an overpriced 2C? Absolutely!

Hindsight will always work in our favor.

Imagine Leafs trading Kadri to the Avs for Mackinnon when Avs decided to break up the core of ROR, Mack, Landy and Duchense while Mack was playing RW as they thought he couldnt do it as a C. That never happened and it was never a rumor. Just something I am throwing out as what if situation.