Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Again

[supermann_98]

He’s going to leave town after the leafs get knocked out of the playoffs and he gets the blame. It will be chaos for a while and UFAs will avoid signing here to avoid the circus


Montreal was in the cup final

While true, we were the #1 seed with a .625 season winning percentage while they were the last seed with a .429 winning percentage.

Not only were we the HEAVY favorites we also had a 3-1 lead in the series, it should've been over in 5.

Then Matthews and Marner choked, ZERO goals between them the rest of the way, playing heavy minutes, with Marner taking two stupid delay of game penalties in game 7 to boot.

This core is flawed, it's soft, mentally and physically. It was put together by an inept GM and kept together by an inept team president.

Personally I can't wait until Marner's gone as I believe his softness and weakness in the playoffs bleeds into the rest of the team, most notably Matthews

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

Personally I can't wait until Marner's gone as I believe his softness and weakness in the playoffs bleeds into the rest of the team, most notably Matthews

Matthews is the highest paid player in the league and the captain long before he got the C.

 

[francis246]

While true, we were the #1 seed with a .625 season winning percentage while they were the last seed with a .429 winning percentage.

Not only were we the HEAVY favorites we also had a 3-1 lead in the series, it should've been over in 5.

Then Matthews and Marner choked, ZERO goals between them the rest of the way, playing heavy minutes, with Marner taking two stupid delay of game penalties in game 7 to boot.

This core is flawed, it's soft, mentally and physically. It was put together by an inept GM and kept together by an inept team president.

Personally I can't wait until Marner's gone as I believe his softness and weakness in the playoffs bleeds into the rest of the team, most notably Matthews

You think Marner’s softness bleeds into the rest of the team? HAHA.

If that was the case, why does does the team play better when Matthews is out?

If the team follows anyones “softness”, it’s Matthews. If he’s engaged, the team is engaged. If he’s not engaged, the team
Does not play physical. It’s always started with and ended with 34 and I think a lot of people will notice that if Marner was to leave. If Matthews isn’t performing at an elite level this team will never accomplish anything.

 

[thewave]

You think Marner’s softness bleeds into the rest of the team? HAHA.

If that was the case, why does does the team play better when Matthews is out?

If the team follows anyones “softness”, it’s Matthews. If he’s engaged, the team is engaged. If he’s not engaged, the team
Does not play physical. It’s always started with and ended with 34 and I think a lot of people will notice that if Marner was to leave. If Matthews isn’t performing at an elite level this team will never accomplish anything.

Is it because AM is out or because AM MM is actually not effective. They won't experiment. Stapled.

 

[francis246]

Is it because AM is out or because AM MM is actually not effective. They won't experiment. Stapled.

Whatever the justification is, saying that MM’s softness is the cause is just flat out stupid. We’ve seen the team excel both in the playoffs and regular season with just Marner as the only player. The team won whilst Matthews was out.

I do agree they are more effective apart. We saw this against Tampa too. They were harder to contain.

 

[thewave]

Whatever the justification is, saying that MM’s softness is the cause is just flat out stupid. We’ve seen the team excel both in the playoffs and regular season with just Marner as the only player. The team won whilst Matthews was out.

I do agree they are more effective apart. We saw this against Tampa too. They were harder to contain.

MM is better with JT. The team plays better in all respects when he is with JT. The problem is he loses 0.25pts/60 or something. That means contract money man. The team defense for JT Marner far outpaces that slim offensive benefit. Matthews actually tries when not with MM.

Berube is either dumb or has been instructed that MM AM is mandatory.

Either way the team will not succeed like this.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You think Marner’s softness bleeds into the rest of the team? HAHA.

If that was the case, why does does the team play better when Matthews is out?

If the team follows anyones “softness”, it’s Matthews. If he’s engaged, the team is engaged. If he’s not engaged, the team
Does not play physical. It’s always started with and ended with 34 and I think a lot of people will notice that if Marner was to leave. If Matthews isn’t performing at an elite level this team will never accomplish anything.

Regular season (and LOL small sample size, I hope you don't seriously think the team is better without Matthews), not playoffs. When Matthews was out in the playoffs against Boston, Marner was useless.

 

[francis246]

Regular season (and LOL small sample size, I hope you don't seriously think the team is better without Matthews), not playoffs. When Matthews was out in the playoffs against Boston, Marner was useless.

I never said they are a better team. I said they play better. There’s a big difference. This team’s style of play changes drastically when Matthews is out of the line up. They are a much harder team to beat, they play more physical, they are harder on pucks, they drive the net with more frequency. That has stopped since Matthews has returned to the lineup

And sure Marner was useless but the team won whilst Matthews was away. So Marner’s “softness” didn’t rub off on the team.

 

[Martin Skoula]

I never said they are a better team. I said they play better. There’s a big difference. This team’s style of play changes drastically when Matthews is out of the line up. They are a much harder team to beat, they play more physical, they are harder on pucks, they drive the net with more frequency. That has stopped since Matthews has returned to the lineup

And sure Marner was useless but the team won whilst Matthews was away. So Marner’s “softness” didn’t rub off on the team.

They played the same way with the Matthews-Domi pair. It’s not like Marner is a black hole of softness that infects everything near it, it’s a pretty reasonable take that the guy handling the puck the most often dictates the tempo and distance the play happens at. When they’re together, the play develops at the pace Marner decides on. If we had a Knies-Matthews-Wilson line instead you suddenly have a lot more tools and reason to play high intensity dump and chase instead.

 

[Sypher04]

Matthews being out isn’t the reason the team played better earlier in the season.

 

[francis246]

Matthews being out isn’t the reason the team played better earlier in the season.

That wasn’t said.

they play better when Matthews is out. There is a difference. It’s not the same as saying they play better because Matthews is out.

They play better because the team is forced to change their style of play.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I never said they are a better team. I said they play better. There’s a big difference. This team’s style of play changes drastically when Matthews is out of the line up. They are a much harder team to beat, they play more physical, they are harder on pucks, they drive the net with more frequency. That has stopped since Matthews has returned to the lineup

And sure Marner was useless but the team won whilst Matthews was away. So Marner’s “softness” didn’t rub off on the team.

If a team plays better, aren't they ... better?

In any case, just because the team played well when Matthews was injured doesn't mean the same thing would happen if he was injured again. Teams have their ups and downs for many different reasons, it's rarely just one thing so when you say "they play better", you're making a dangerous assumption and stating as if it's a fact.

As far as the "rubbing off" goes, it's a theory. I don't think there's any way to prove it one way or the other, I get where that poster is coming from though. Some people think he's a positive influence on the team because he's "well liked" (which I think is total nonsense), others think that he's soft and having a softie wearing a letter isn't ideal which makes more sense to me but who knows.

 

[francis246]

If a team plays better, aren't they ... better?

In any case, just because the team played well when Matthews was injured doesn't mean the same thing would happen if he was injured again. Teams have their ups and downs for many different reasons, it's rarely just one thing so when you say "they play better", you're making a dangerous assumption and stating as if it's a fact.

As far as the "rubbing off" goes, it's a theory. I don't think there's any way to prove it one way or the other, I get where that poster is coming from though. Some people think he's a positive influence on the team because he's "well liked" (which I think is total nonsense), others think that he's soft and having a softie wearing a letter isn't ideal which makes more sense to me but who knows.

It’s not just isolated to this year. Their record without Matthews is insanely good. There is a complete mindset shift when he is out. It’s not a knock on Matthews, more so on the team overall. Why can’t they play that way consistently. The players themselves also speak to their shift in mindset when Auston is out. Doesn’t make sense to me.

The softness thing to me is just dumb imo. It’s easy to talk shit from behind a computer but that’s just me. In general hockey players aren’t soft, to be able to play the game at the NHL level you gotta have some level of toughness. Even to just be able to block shots, that shit hurts like hell.

 

[Gary Nylund]

It’s not just isolated to this year. Their record without Matthews is insanely good. There is a complete mindset shift when he is out. It’s not a knock on Matthews, more so on the team overall. Why can’t they play that way consistently. The players themselves also speak to their shift in mindset when Auston is out. Doesn’t make sense to me.

The softness thing to me is just dumb imo. It’s easy to talk shit from behind a computer but that’s just me. In general hockey players aren’t soft, to be able to play the game at the NHL level you gotta have some level of toughness. Even to just be able to block shots, that shit hurts like hell.

Interesting, I'm not aware of what the players have said as I don't pay much attention to sports media but I'll take your word it. And I couldn't agree more with "doesn't make sense to me", this team just frustrates the hell out of me.

I get what you're saying about softness. Maybe it's fair to say that while Marner's not soft when compared to the average person on the street, he might be considered soft when compared to the average NHL player.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Hopefully team Canada takes the Four Nations seriously and the hyper-competitiveness of Crosby, MacKinnon, McDavid, et. rub off on Mitch. Same for Matthews and being around the Tkachuks.

 

[Gabriel426]

Hard to believe they are that dumb or that confident in Marner lighting it up in the playoffs. Odds are he flames out. Can't see him getting through the grind of 2 playoff rounds, let alone 3 or 4.

He barely got through one and then played by far his worst playoffs hockey in round 2.

lol.

Just hope he is not disinterested like he was last year in Game 7 against Bruins.

 

[francis246]

He barely got through one and then played by far his worst playoffs hockey in round 2.

lol.

Just hope he is not disinterested like he was last year in Game 7 against Bruins.

I guess I’m just caping for Marner today, but the Florida series being labelled as Marner’s worst playoffs is just dumb. He made a really bad turn over in game 3, that cost them. But he was far better against Florida compared to Montreal. Montreal in my opinion was his worst playoff hockey, it’s not even comparable.

Also just a reminder, Marner was the only core four forward to score a goal against Florida and it was an even strength goal too. Nylander, Matthews, Tavares - 0 goals. I’m sure someone will fly in over the top rope and say it was a meaningless goal or something like that.

 

[ULF_55]

Okay, we'll never have McDavid and Draisaitl.

 

[ToneDog]

He barely got through one and then played by far his worst playoffs hockey in round 2.

lol.

Just hope he is not disinterested like he was last year in Game 7 against Bruins.

He won't be disinterested if he is playing for a contract. Question is, is he willing to play out side his comfort zone when the opponent tries to take away his will to win? Is he willing to battle for the puck or will he look to the refs when he feels he was treated unjustly or treat the puck like a hand grenade when he gets close to the dirty areas?

 

[Gabriel426]

I guess I’m just caping for Marner today, but the Florida series being labelled as Marner’s worst playoffs is just dumb. He made a really bad turn over in game 3, that cost them. But he was far better against Florida compared to Montreal. Montreal in my opinion was his worst playoff hockey, it’s not even comparable.

Also just a reminder, Marner was the only core four forward to score a goal against Florida and it was an even strength goal too. Nylander, Matthews, Tavares - 0 goals. I’m sure someone will fly in over the top rope and say it was a meaningless goal or something like that.

Let’s not argue which one was his worst playoffs experience.

Pls check your stats regarding how many goals our core 4 scored. Last I checked Willie accounted for Two goals in that series. Not sure was any of those EV or PP.

He won't be disinterested if he is playing for a contract. Question is, is he willing to play out side his comfort zone when the opponent tries to take away his will to win? Is he willing to battle for the puck or will he look to the refs when he feels he was treated unjustly?

The fact that he could had sign an extension on July 1. I truly believe that he cracked under pressure last playoffs as he knew he was playing for his next deal.

 

[francis246]

Let’s not argue which one was his worst playoffs experience.

Pls check your stats regarding how many goals our core 4 scored. Last I checked Willie accounted for Two goals in that series. Not sure was any of those EV or PP.

Sorry yes Nylander had two, Marner had 1. Tavares and Matthews did not register goals

 

[ToneDog]

Let’s not argue which one was his worst playoffs experience.

Pls check your stats regarding how many goals our core 4 scored. Last I checked Willie accounted for Two goals in that series. Not sure was any of those EV or PP.


The fact that he could had sign an extension on July 1. I truly believe that he cracked under pressure last playoffs as he knew he was playing for his next deal.

Some will tell you he was playing with an ankle sprain. Matty had a tummy ache and Willie had migraines but was OK to have friends over to watch the game. Never have we witnessed a softer core.

 

[Ports]

He’s going to leave town after the leafs get knocked out of the playoffs and he gets the blame. It will be chaos for a while and UFAs will avoid signing here to avoid the circus


Montreal was in the cup final

The only UFA’s who sign here are older guys anyways.

 

[The Shadow]

The only UFA’s who sign here are older guys anyways.

What do you consider old?

 

[Gabriel426]

Some will tell you he was playing with an ankle sprain. Matty had a tummy ache and Willie had migraines but was OK to have friends over to watch the game. Never have we witnessed a softer core.

And yet some still think they can play four rounds, lol.

At least from the past two winners, Panthers and Knights, both teams acknowledged the fact that they can still go another round after winning the Cup.
To me that’s the different between Contenders and our Beta Chokers, this guys will play and perform even if they are not 100%.

I would bet anyone that let’s say even teams loses in the playoffs need to play against each other for whatever reason. Like as long as you make the playoffs, you need to play four rounds. Our boys will probably still lose 4 rounds, lol.