Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Again

[Racer88]

is a psychological condition where a victim develops a bond with their abuser or captor.

Stockholm Syndrome

 

[ACC1224]

Fear of change and the unknown.

Are you saying the team is afraid to make change?

 

[Apex Predator]

Are you saying the team is afraid to make change?

Yeah I believe MLSE and Shanny are right now. If they keep status quo playoffs pretty much guranteed and 2 game playoff revenue. Breaking up the core can go in many directions. I look at it just from business perspective. Lots of companies fear making big change and staying status quo because they know what status quo is.

It’s easier to say let’s keep doing what we’re doing and the process will work instead of changing it up and taking that risk. We’ll never know what the right or wrong thing to do is unless we invent travel between parallel universe. This board is all “ifs and buts” but we will never know what could have been if we break the core up or don’t.

 

[likecheese]

Are you saying the team is afraid to make change?

You got first dibs on an elite player, do you sign him and hope for the big run or spend the money elsewhere? Last years FA market compared to Marner's next contract, so you could have had a Montour and a Bertuzzi and a little cash left over, is that better, it's debatable.

 

[ACC1224]

Yeah I believe MLSE and Shanny are right now. If they keep status quo playoffs pretty much guranteed and 2 game playoff revenue. Breaking up the core can go in many directions. I look at it just from business perspective. Lots of companies fear making big change and staying status quo because they know what status quo is.

It’s easier to say let’s keep doing what we’re doing and the process will work instead of changing it up and taking that risk. We’ll never know what the right or wrong thing to do is unless we invent travel between parallel universe. This board is all “ifs and buts” but we will never know what could have been if we break the core up or don’t.

Don't agree at all but can appreciate your thoughts.
I think they would be confident enough in their abilities that they would feel that the change they would make would be successful, they wouldn't be scared of it.

You got first dibs on an elite player, do you sign him and hope for the big run or spend the money elsewhere? Last years FA market compared to Marner's next contract, so you could have had a Montour and a Bertuzzi and a little cash left over, is that better, it's debatable.

There is never any guarantee with UFA's. Nice to hope they would all sign here but there is never any guarantee, you could end up with nothing.
Marner is leading the team in scoring by almost 20 points, hard to see those two having that great an impact.

 

[ToneDog]

How would Friedman know details from any negotiation? Nylander's camp would never tell something like that to the media, and Leafs absolutely wouldn't if they were caving so easily. The scale of bullshit is unfathomable.

Why would he make such a statement if it were not true? It sure played out like it was.

 

[therealkoho]

Theres always the option of getting a boatload back if Austkn didn't mind his new destination!

Just trying to help

 

[ToneDog]

Draisaitl and Matthews signed in the fall, so they knew what the new cap was.

Neither Pastrnak nor Nylander was looking for the most they could get - both had a (somewhat) reasonable number they were looking for, not based on what the cap might be.

What? Draisaitl's deal does not kick in until next year and we still don't know what the cap will be. Matthews' deal kicked in for the 2024/2025 season. He signed 2 months before the start of the 2023/2024 season.

Both Boston and Toronto caved to Pasta and Nylander. Bruins held on longer. Willie went for every dollar, following in the footsteps of Matthews. Anybody being honest will tell you Willie was not and is still not worth that cap hit. It will be more digestible as the cap rises.

 

[Antropovsky]

Yeah I believe MLSE and Shanny are right now. If they keep status quo playoffs pretty much guranteed and 2 game playoff revenue. Breaking up the core can go in many directions. I look at it just from business perspective. Lots of companies fear making big change and staying status quo because they know what status quo is.

It’s easier to say let’s keep doing what we’re doing and the process will work instead of changing it up and taking that risk. We’ll never know what the right or wrong thing to do is unless we invent travel between parallel universe. This board is all “ifs and buts” but we will never know what could have been if we break the core up or don’t.

There was speculation im the offfseason, by Friedman I believe, that Bell and Roger's couldn't agree on player changes which led to their breakup. Sounds like Roger's was wanting to make changes but Bell wouldn't approve. Unfortunately by the time they separated all the NMC had kicked in. Definitely Trelivings quotes from the offseason would lead most to believe Treliving and Co (Rogers included) were open to trading Marner. Otherwise I don't think you'd say "Marner controls this thing" full quote below; or let your star player that you apparently want to re-sign, take the heat he was taking without defending him in the media.

"Mitch controls a lot of this whole thing. If there’s a way to make our team better, we’re going to do it. But we’re certainly not going to make a trade just so we can pound our chest and say, ‘Look, we’re different'"

 

[therealkoho]

There really is no other plausible outcome than this. The only certainty is that the number has to be higher than Nylander's number and lower than Matthews' number. It probably ends up at something like $12.9 million per season.

There was a time that it was Tavares number that couldn't be exceeded. Oh well to that plan, Dubas couldnt wait to let Auston know hed bring his own KY to the meeting, deep inside the secret recesses of 40 Bay St.

 

[Apex Predator]

Don't agree at all but can appreciate your thoughts.
I think they would be confident enough in their abilities that they would feel that the change they would make would be successful, they wouldn't be scared of it.

Shanny and MLSE thought they were bringing back Dubas and then were blindsided at a press conference by him. Followed that up with a whole press conference going over the day to day of everything that made them decide to move on from Dubas. I think this management under Shanny has shown they don’t know what’s going on within there team. We’ll always disagree on this but I think they don’t have confidence on what they’re doing. End of the day I just want to see a Stanley cup win.

 

[Jojalu]

Which is why you either accept that or stop watching if it's so painful. This is the core, and it will be for years. Deal. All this wasted energy, nobody is forcing the tv in front of you. Yes it's frustrating, but it ain't changing.

This is really the only point. Yes it is frustrating, but I don't understand the sense of entitlement Leaf fans feel.

Why do we deserve to win more than any other sports franchise?

It would be awesome if the Leafs could win the cup after 40+ years of cheering for them. Same applies to the Bills for me.

I don't know why it bothers some that they feel embarassed. We don't run the team. Losing sucks. But it is what fans really signed up for because it happens far more regularly than winning. Some teams have never won a championship. Some have gone 100 years in between. Not freaking out is not a sign that you are happy with what the Leafs have accomplished.

 

[DarkKnight]

This is really the only point. Yes it is frustrating, but I don't understand the sense of entitlement Leaf fans feel.

Why do we deserve to win more than any other sports franchise?

It would be awesome if the Leafs could win the cup after 40+ years of cheering for them. Same applies to the Bills for me.

I don't know why it bothers some that they feel embarassed. We don't run the team. Losing sucks. But it is what fans really signed up for because it happens far more regularly than winning. Some teams have never won a championship. Some have gone 100 years in between. Not freaking out is not a sign that you are happy with what the Leafs have accomplished.

And if the regular season is irrelevant, why do we cheer when we score, boo when we let one in and get happy when we win? All these years of shitty hockey here, I refuse to be a gloom all year, enjoy what we have while we have it. We're fourth in the league, and Marner is a big reason for that, no need to write it off. I'll take this over watching John Mitchell and hoping Justin Pogge is the real deal.

 

[ACC1224]

Shanny and MLSE thought they were bringing back Dubas and then were blindsided at a press conference by him. Followed that up with a whole press conference going over the day to day of everything that made them decide to move on from Dubas. I think this management under Shanny has shown they don’t know what’s going on within there team. We’ll always disagree on this but I think they don’t have confidence on what they’re doing. End of the day I just want to see a Stanley cup win.

Treliving will be the one making the roster decisions, he’s not a puppet.

This is really the only point. Yes it is frustrating, but I don't understand the sense of entitlement Leaf fans feel.

Why do we deserve to win more than any other sports franchise?

It would be awesome if the Leafs could win the cup after 40+ years of cheering for them. Same applies to the Bills for me.

I don't know why it bothers some that they feel embarassed. We don't run the team. Losing sucks. But it is what fans really signed up for because it happens far more regularly than winning. Some teams have never won a championship. Some have gone 100 years in between. Not freaking out is not a sign that you are happy with what the Leafs have accomplished.

You get the impression some feel it is the fans holding the team back which of course is absurd

 

[ToneDog]

This is really the only point. Yes it is frustrating, but I don't understand the sense of entitlement Leaf fans feel.

Why do we deserve to win more than any other sports franchise?

It would be awesome if the Leafs could win the cup after 40+ years of cheering for them. Same applies to the Bills for me.

I don't know why it bothers some that they feel embarassed. We don't run the team. Losing sucks. But it is what fans really signed up for because it happens far more regularly than winning. Some teams have never won a championship. Some have gone 100 years in between. Not freaking out is not a sign that you are happy with what the Leafs have accomplished.

Show me a fanbase that is not upset at a team that has failed in 8 straight playoffs with virtually the same core and I will show you an apathetic fanbase. The answer is not, they should stop watching. What a cope out.

 

[DarkKnight]

I don't feel like that's the only two options to be fair. Go along with it or stop watching is what this organization thrives on.

It absolutely is the only two options, frankly anything else is rationalizing. If you don't like the team, don't watch. If I band I like comes out with an album I hate, I don't listen to it. If I did, then something is wrong with me.

It's fair game to criticize aspects of the team, I do it all the time. But, to spend an entire season undermining an objective fantastic year for a player or team, that's more about the person than constructive. We're fourth in the league, last week people were ready to tear it down after an expected lull. Marner is fourth in scoring, but people actually discount his contribution. Have it at, but it's nothing of value imo.

As an aside, not you I'm talking about, you're pretty fair.

 

[Jojalu]

Show me a fanbase that is not upset at a team that has failed in 8 straight playoffs with virtually the same core and I will show you an apathetic fanbase. The answer is not, they should stop watching. What a cope out.

Upset is not the term I would use. Disappointed for sure. But I don't have expectations for the team. I love watching sports, and I love the Leafs. I get frustrated when they play lousy and dabble in armchair GM'ing but in the end it is just a source of entertainment. The frustration lasts for a day or so and then it's on to the next team to be disappointed from

 

[HolyCrap]

Upset is not the term I would use. Disappointed for sure. But I don't have expectations for the team. I love watching sports, and I love the Leafs. I get frustrated when they play lousy and dabble in armchair GM'ing but in the end it is just a source of entertainment. The frustration lasts for a day or so and then it's on to the next team to be disappointed from

That’s fine and dandy you’re a casual fan. Most of us are diehard fans and want success. You don’t have the same mindset regarding success like most of us.

 

[Jojalu]

That’s fine and dandy you’re a casual fan. Most of us are diehard fans and want success. You don’t have the same mindset regarding success like most of us.

100% false.

I have been a diehard fan for 40 years.

The difference is I coach for a living at a National level. Not everything is as black and white as some make it out to be. I have spent my life winning National/Provincial tournaments and I have spent my life managing incredible teams lose when it mattered most. Perspective is different.

 

[HolyCrap]

100% false.

I have been a diehard fan for 40 years.

The difference is I coach for a living at a National level. Not everything is as black and white as some make it out to be. I have spent my life winning National/Provincial tournaments and I have spent my life managing incredible teams lose when it mattered most. Perspective is different.

My bad. But you sorta made yourself sound like a casual fan with that response. lol.

 

[Jojalu]

My bad. But you sorta made yourself sound like a casual fan with that response. lol.

No worries. It did sound a little casual

 

[Gary Nylund]

It absolutely is the only two options, frankly anything else is rationalizing. If you don't like the team, don't watch. If I band I like comes out with an album I hate, I don't listen to it. If I did, then something is wrong with me.

It's fair game to criticize aspects of the team, I do it all the time. But, to spend an entire season undermining an objective fantastic year for a player or team, that's more about the person than constructive. We're fourth in the league, last week people were ready to tear it down after an expected lull. Marner is fourth in scoring, but people actually discount his contribution. Have it at, but it's nothing of value imo.

As an aside, not you I'm talking about, you're pretty fair.

Who's discounting Marner's contribution? Where are you getting this stuff from?

 

[Apex Predator]

My bad. But you sorta made yourself sound like a casual fan with that response. lol.

No worries. It did sound a little casual

I feel like if you post on hfboards, Reddit or an online platform you are some sort of hardcore fan. A casual isn’t posting on boards or listening to podcasts.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

I'm tired of this topic. I hope we don't sign him the postseason finishes. That's all.

I hope we don't re-sign him or Matthews ever. This core will always lose in the playoffs.

 

[keonsbitterness]

ghfgfghghgh

I have no idea why a good playoffs would make us pay him more than Matthews.

It wouldn't but it would increase the risk of Marner's camp refusing to come down from a number higher than Matthews.

Show me a fanbase that is not upset at a team that has failed in 8 straight playoffs with virtually the same core and I will show you an apathetic fanbase. The answer is not, they should stop watching. What a cope out.

So what should they do?