Minnesota Wild General Discussion 2024-25

[DigitalBoldy]

Also, yeah, kinda felt like he skirted around the Rossi on the 4th line thing. Mentioned that it was more of a Hartman promotion than a Rossi demotion, but didn't really tough on the fact that Gaudreau was donkey shit. Didn't at all mention or maybe even consider the whole double standard that playing well got Hartman a promotion, and it got Rossi a "well why change what worked". Did mention that Rossi produced, also noted earlier that he doesn't feel like Rossi played poorly, but it felt kind of hollow.

Where should they have promoted Rossi to? Trenin and Brazeau each individually had as many points as Johansson+Gaudreau+Nyquist had combined.

Trenin-Rossi-Brazeau was actually tilting the ice in the Wild’s favor. They just needed to play more minutes.

 

[Spurgeon]

This just seems like the offseason that has the potential to really limit the ceiling of this team by giving out UFA contracts to the wrong pieces just because he feels like he has to do anything

This is why I think it’s a much smarter move to sign an old vet to a 1-year deal and not force anything if we can’t get one of the bigger targets (Marner, Ehlers, Bennett).

Save the cap for next offseason.

 

[Spurgeon]

Wild confident they will get deal done with Kaprizov, can offer him most money | NHL.com

Forward could sign 8-year deal July 1, would become UFA after next season

www.nhl.com

"
“I get excited,” Guerin said. “Not that I don’t feel pressure, I do sometimes, but no I’m more excited than anything. It’s been a long couple years, just dealing with [the Parise, Suter contracts] and honestly just hearing about it. That’s just like ‘oh God all right we don’t have to hear about it anymore,’ which is nice.
"

He should feel pressure now that he doesn’t have their buyouts as a scapegoat.

 

[AKL]

Trenin-Rossi-Brazeau was actually tilting the ice in the Wild’s favor. They just needed to play more minutes.

I mean, no reasonable person considered it a promotion until after the line started to work. Then it's all hindsight justification. It's all just trying to twist a narrative. We know the narrative is false because they didn't get more ice time.

 

[MK9]

So no, nothing necessarily pinning Rossi to the wall, but if you were concerned that they're going to trade Rossi and look for something else, they did absolutely nothing to assuage those fears.

Between the comments about finding center help to alleviate some pressure on Ek, and the comments about expecting Yurov to be on the NHL team and make a big impact, I'm more confident than before that Rossi is gone, they're going to go after a top 9 center who can take some of the tough matchups, and they're going to basically swap Rossi for Yurov as the young center in the top 9. And they may go after a 4C who can win faceoffs as well.

Seems annoyingly inevitable. I just hope they get quality for him and he gets to go somewhere that appreciates him, uses him in a far better manner and that he blossoms and has a fantastic career. Especially after the way he's been treated here. I'm not saying they destroyed his career or anything, but he really does deserve better.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

I mean, no reasonable person considered it a promotion until after the line started to work. Then it's all hindsight justification. It's all just trying to twist a narrative. We know the narrative is false because they didn't get more ice time.

That’s not what I am saying. I mean, if Kaprizov-Ek-Boldy and Foligno-Hartman-Zucc are the top 2 lines, that leaves Johansson-Nyquist and Trenin-Brazeau as the remaining wingers to be centered by either Rossi or Gaudreau. Is centering Johansson and Nyquist a “promotion” over Trenin and Brazeau?

My point is, the wingers in the bottom 6 were terrible and it didn’t really matter where they put Rossi. Trenin was the best bottom 6 winger in the playoffs. He and Rossi showed some chemistry. Moving Rossi away from Trenin when they were working well together would have been a bad decision IMO.

The two complaints I have with his usage are:
1) number of minutes
2) should have filtered Kap-Boldy-Foligno in the Brazeau spot and played 11-7, thus enabling Zeev to play QB on the power play

 

[AKL]

That’s not what I am saying. I mean, if Kaprizov-Ek-Boldy and Foligno-Hartman-Zucc are the top 2 lines, that leaves Johansson-Nyquist and Trenin-Brazeau as the remaining wingers to be centered by either Rossi or Gaudreau. Is centering Johansson and Nyquist a “promotion” over Trenin and Brazeau?

My point is, the wingers in the bottom 6 were terrible and it didn’t really matter where they put Rossi. Trenin was the best bottom 6 winger in the playoffs. He and Rossi showed some chemistry. Moving Rossi away from Trenin when they were working well together would have been a bad decision IMO.

The two complaints I have with his usage are:
1) number of minutes
2) should have filtered Kap-Boldy-Foligno in the Brazeau spot and played 11-7, thus enabling Zeev to play QB on the power play

You're not thinking about any of this at the time the move was made, you're justifying it with hindsight.

Yes, Trenin-Rossi ended up being better than Johansson-Gaudreau-Zuccarello. However, we don't know if swapping Gaudreau and Rossi would have changed things because that line never got touched for some reason.

And saying "moving Rossi away from Trenin when they were working well would have been a bad decision" is exactly the double standard everyone is talking about, because in game 1 Hartman and Trenin worked well, and Hartman still got moved up. But why as it not a bad decision to separate them when they were working well?

It wasn't a calculated effort to get more offense, it was stashing Rossi on the fourth line to keep him off the ice more. Again, the fact that they still didn't get more minutes after they started producing is a testament to that very fact.

And using hindsight to say "well look it worked and they produced" is just a tool to deflect from the fact that the decision didn't make sense at the time, and to deflect from the double standard that Hartman playing well with that line earned a promotion, and Rossi playing well with that line earned a "but they worked well together so why split it up".

Finally, I can't stress enough that Gaudreau was terrible. Perhaps if they had demoted him for playing like shit like they had with Rossi, or promoted Rossi for playing well with the fourth line like they did with Hartman, that line wouldn't have been a complete no show. And I fully expect you to ignore this entirely valid point and say I'm just pushing a "Rossi is a victim" narrative. But you can't really ignore the reality here.

 

[f7ben]

You're not thinking about any of this at the time the move was made, you're justifying it with hindsight.

Yes, Trenin-Rossi ended up being better than Johansson-Gaudreau-Zuccarello. However, we don't know if swapping Gaudreau and Rossi would have changed things because that line never got touched for some reason.

And saying "moving Rossi away from Trenin when they were working well would have been a bad decision" is exactly the double standard everyone is talking about, because in game 1 Hartman and Trenin worked well, and Hartman still got moved up. But why as it not a bad decision to separate them when they were working well?

It wasn't a calculated effort to get more offense, it was stashing Rossi on the fourth line to keep him off the ice more. Again, the fact that they still didn't get more minutes after they started producing is a testament to that very fact.

And using hindsight to say "well look it worked and they produced" is just a tool to deflect from the fact that the decision didn't make sense at the time, and to deflect from the double standard that Hartman playing well with that line earned a promotion, and Rossi playing well with that line earned a "but they worked well together so why split it up".

Finally, I can't stress enough that Gaudreau was terrible. Perhaps if they had demoted him for playing like shit like they had with Rossi, or promoted Rossi for playing well with the fourth line like they did with Hartman, that line wouldn't have been a complete no show. And I fully expect you to ignore this entirely valid point and say I'm just pushing a "Rossi is a victim" narrative. But you can't really ignore the reality here.

Savage

 

[DigitalBoldy]

You're not thinking about any of this at the time the move was made, you're justifying it with hindsight.

Legitimately think this is what you are doing. It’s because when Hartman was playing well, Rossi was not playing well. That’s why they flip flopped them. When Rossi started playing well, Hartman and Ek were still playing great. There was no good spot to put Rossi once he started playing well.

 

[57special]

You must not follow him on X, he’s unbearably petty

That's true, not on Twitter

 

[KaprizovSaveUs]

Legitimately think this is what you are doing. It’s because when Hartman was playing well, Rossi was not playing well. That’s why they flip flopped them. When Rossi started playing well, Hartman and Ek were still playing great. There was no good spot to put Rossi once he started playing well.

I thought the Gaudreau and Rossi swap felt obvious for the better part of 3 games and it never came.

 

[f7ben]

I thought the Gaudreau and Rossi swap felt obvious for the better part of 3 games and it never came.

There has never been a more obvious swap than limiting worthless Freddys minutes while getting Rossi more minutes. Except maybe firing Nyquist into the sun and getting ohgren in the lineup. Those things were so obvious a chimpanzee in a suit could have made them happen. Unless of course it’s not really about winning

 

[saywut]

McLean has done an awful job in Iowa, how does he get a 3rd year? Last year's team was significantly better than the 23-24 team and had the same record, the 2 worst records in the last 9 years for Iowa.

The only thing appealing about Boeser is his handedness, his game is an awful fit. At least Nelson would help in face-offs and make a line bigger, probably won't cost significant term either.

 

[AKL]

McLean has done an awful job in Iowa, how does he get a 3rd year? Last year's team was significantly better than the 23-24 team and had the same record, the 2 worst records in the last 9 years for Iowa.

Guerin said it's because the AHL is a developmental league for coaches too, and McLean gets leash to develop there.

 

[AKL]

There has never been a more obvious swap than limiting worthless Freddys minutes while getting Rossi more minutes. Except maybe firing Nyquist into the sun and getting ohgren in the lineup. Those things were so obvious a chimpanzee in a suit could have made them happen. Unless of course it’s not really about winning

I don't even think the Chimpanzee needs to be wearing a suit tbh

 

[saywut]

Guerin said it's because the AHL is a developmental league for coaches too, and McLean gets leash to develop there.

But what is he developing? More players regressed under him than progressed, hasn't even Jaro Spacek criticized the coaching his son has got in Iowa? That's like his 2nd most progressed player behind Lambos.

 

[AKL]

But what is he developing? More players regressed under him than progressed, hasn't even NHL Spacek criticized the coaching his son has got in Iowa? That's like his 2nd best player progress-wise behind Lambos.

Like he's developing as a coach. Like a player develops playing skills in the AHL, a coach develops his coaching skills. Learning different strategies, approaches, methods, experiencing difficult situations and overcoming adversity type stuff.

I don't necessarily agree with it, but that's how Guerin sees it.

 

[f7ben]

Like he's developing as a coach. Like a player develops playing skills in the AHL, a coach develops his coaching skills. Learning different strategies, approaches, methods, experiencing difficult situations and overcoming adversity type stuff.

I don't necessarily agree with it, but that's how Guerin sees it.

It might be a valid idea if you had to draft coaches and the talent pool was constricted by the system in place. The reason why it’s a drunken idiots blathering is because you can fire and hire 15 different coaches in a year and firing them is the thing to do if they are each actively torpedoing the development of the players who are the actual commodity. Once again , Guerin is a complete f***ing moron

 

[AKL]

It might be a valid idea if you had to draft coaches and the talent pool was constricted by the system in place. The reason why it’s a drunken idiots blathering is because you can fire and hire 15 different coaches in a year and firing them is the thing to do if they are each actively torpedoing the development of the players who are the actual commodity. Once again , Guerin is a complete f***ing moron

For the record, I don't like it either. To an extent, I do agree with Guerin. The typical progression for coaching is AHL assistant~>NHL assistant~>AHL head~>NHL head. So it is a developmental league for coaches too.

But the problem here is McLean appears to be so bad that I'm not seeing how it's worth trying to develop him. 100% developing your players is more important than developing coaches, so when it seems like the coach is having a negative impact on the players, he has to go.

 

[KaprizovSaveUs]

I agree with the premise that coaches develop too, but I generally want to hire them when they’re ready for the next step. The idea would be that MacLean is an American League head coach who can develop into an NHL coach, not an American League assistant who develops into a head coach on the job. Maybe I’m naive to how the game works in the pros tho

 

[AKL]

I agree with the premise that coaches develop too, but I generally want to hire them when they’re ready for the next step. The idea would be that MacLean is an American League head coach who can develop into an NHL coach, not an American League assistant who develops into a head coach on the job. Maybe I’m naive to how the game works in the pros tho

He's been an AHL assistant and an NHL assistant for the Wild already. I'd be lying if I said I know anything about assistant coach performance, but they must have thought he was a good enough assistant coach in the NHL to merit getting the AHL head coaching job.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

I thought the Gaudreau and Rossi swap felt obvious for the better part of 3 games and it never came.

It's hilarious that people are so upset that Rossi wasn't moved up to center Nyquist of all people.

 

[KaprizovSaveUs]

It's hilarious that people are so upset that Rossi wasn't moved up to center Nyquist of all people.

It’s not about linemates even as much as it is just having your best players on the ice more. I’m not the Rossi believer I once was, but it certainly feels like he was treated unfairly.

 

[f7ben]

It's hilarious that people are so upset that Rossi wasn't moved up to center Nyquist of all people.

We’re discussing hypothetical hindsight moves. I don’t think there’s a single person here that wanted Rossi centering Nyquist because almost to the man this forum wanted Nyquist in the press box or farther than that even

 

[DigitalBoldy]

It’s not about linemates even as much as it is just having your best players on the ice more. I’m not the Rossi believer I once was, but it certainly feels like he was treated unfairly.

That's literally my argument.