Confirmed Trade: [MIN/CBJ] David Jiricek, 2025 5th round pick for Daemon Hunt, 2025 1st round pick, 2027 2nd round pick, 2026 3rd and 4th round picks

[CBJx614]

Well if it's all speculation anyway it could just as easily be that he straight up didn't want to be a part of the CBJ organization going forward.

CBJ wouldn't have traded him simply because he didn't want to be there. Jiricek has absolutely 0 leverage.

 

[Tbaybruin]

How do you turn a recent 6th overall pick into a pick in the late 20's and a pick in the late 50's plus an AHL defender?

Honestly that's a major blunder by Waddell.

Does it matter where you were drafted? Kaprisov was a 5th rounder. Let’s see how it all works out.

 

[SteelCityCannon]

But numerous cbj fans were here saying there's no issue, him sitting over 10 games is totally normal, the trade talk is unfounded he willingly went to the ahl.

None of that was the reality. If they thought he needed to improve, why wasn't in Cleveland all year? Because it seems like he refused to. To me it reads more like an attitude issue than them thinking he isn't going to be good enough longterm

It was weird because coming into camp he was not only penciled on the team, but in the top 4 really. He had an open door to get there and was absolutely horrific in the preseason. That's what worked him down the lineup.

Now I would agree, he needed to be playing 20+ in Cleveland vs in the press box. I think the Guddy injury might have impacted it a little bit, but it was likely him not wanting to go to the ahl before.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Does it matter where you were drafted? Kaprisov was a 5th rounder. Let’s see how it all works out.

Kaprizov was also a unicorn who was too small and had awkward skating that dropped him. He also took 6 years to get to the NHL.

 

[Warh1ppy]

The about face opinions of people who had line in the sand beliefs about what Jiricek was worth vs what he returned is kind of wild.

 

[JiricekSaveUs]

Does it matter where you were drafted? Kaprisov was a 5th rounder. Let’s see how it all works out.

It does matter where you’re drafted, don’t let anyone tell you it doesn’t. If we’re throwing darts, I wanna be throwing them at players in the top 10. Jiricek could be a complete bust and chances are we didn’t give away anything that hurt all too much anyways. Look at the players who were drafted 5th, 6th, 7th overall recently and compare to the players that were drafted in the mid twenties. Odds are in the twenties you might get a decent nhl player. I’d rather take a shot on a guy with that top 10 pedigree because historically you have a much better chance of hitting on a star. I’ll trade 2 or 3 bottom half of the lineup guys for a chance at a star any day.

 

[Xoggz22]

Trade plus the Wild’s locker room culture should do wonders for his motivation level. Then when you consider the team style and systems, it’s hard not to be excited as a Wild fan. He brings an element that we have been lacking since the Dumba injury with his booming point shot.

Big guys, and D men just take longer, need a lot of strength and practice to find your edges consistently at NHL paces. Even a guy like Boldy struggled with the skating pace and balance needed until really the last year ish.

The Wild are filled to the brim now and in the future with sublime skating D men, there is room for someone a little weaker in that regard but brings other elements like shooting and net front presence.

Bogosian is the obvious template for him on this roster and finding short term success, Jiricek lacks the vet savviness but brings a shot that should be quite impactful right out of the gate. The Wild are very strong as a team on puck retrievals and getting their D men opportunities to unleash from the point, it’s a friendly place to start his career IMO.

Not arguing with you, but the CBJ room, system and coaching this year should have helped him jump start to improvement. I'm not disagreeing with your post. I think he has the ability to be a really good one, but the system played in Columbus preaches pinching and offense, which should have been perfect for him. What we're saying/seeing (CBJ fans) is that he's coming off as an entitled kid that feels he's already become a NHL defenseman. To your point, someone (besides his agent) needs to get his attention and buckle down to work on the warts he's shown. I wish him nothing but success. I have my doubts in the limited showing he's had in Columbus, but the skill set is there to be a good one. It's on him to change the narrative.

 

[Crede777]

Does it matter where you were drafted? Kaprisov was a 5th rounder. Let’s see how it all works out.

They'll say that where a player is drafted doesn't matter as soon as he's drafted. They'll also point out the sunk cost fallacy and the fact that Waddell wasn't the one that drafted him. That said, you can't disregard draft capital a team has invested in a player.

To liken the situation to a car - If I inherit a car that someone spent $30,000 on 2 years ago and I think it's a lemon, it makes sense for me to sell it for $20,000. If I inherit a car someone spent $100,000 on 2 years ago and I think it's a lemon, a lot of people are going to be rightly upset if I sell it for $20,000. Even if it's a lemon, it behooves me to try to get it fixed as much as possible before giving up on it.

 

[Xoggz22]

That Evason was playing him even less than the previous regime is a fact that shouldn't be lost in this. Evason is a very good regular season coach. If he's scratching a guy, he probably isn't deserving of it. Ironic that the GM that believed in Evason is in a way now believing he was wrong with Jiricek.


Totally agree. It's the killer flaw for players. And skating at this age is rarely "fixed" or even significantly improved. IQ is also a thing you usually have it or you don't. There's a reason Jiricek doesn't have an NHL highlight reel. One just has to go back and watch plays where his team gets scored on. It's usually a brutal video of his problems with skating, IQ, and lack of physicality. He's the opposite of hard to play against. At this point in his career, he would only be useful on our PP.

This trade makes so little sense for us. He's not a win-in-the-short-term piece, and you just gave away your best assets to get a player like that. He's a win-later maybe, but we already have quite a few prospects in the same age range, and by then is Kaprizov even here and still this good? It's a trade you make in NHL 25.

Only point I will make is that with the puck on his stick and when he's decisive, he's really good moving forward. He does have a great shot and that can be seen, but there are few clips that display his upside when looking at the NHL. Again, I hope he puts it together. Being in the West, I have no issue with him developing. I do have my doubts, but not wishing against him

 

[Xoggz22]

Yeh agility. 4 way agility. He moves and pivots quick for a big man. That lack has held many big D men back in the past.

A good system and good coaching can cover for defensive IQ and positioning issues. That’ll come down to coaching. We have that in Edmonton and it’s making 3rd pair defenceman like Ceci, Stetcher, Emberson, and Kulak play like top 4 without issue.

I think he needs more acceleration. That can be trained and developed.

In theory, Evason should have been a perfect coach for him. I think he should have stayed in Europe to get strength and more experience but that was the old regime. His limited showing in the NHL shows he has a long way to go to be a NHL defenseman...regardless of coach. I'll disagree that his pivots are quick for a big man...and I hate having to say "for a big man" because that means it's not good enough in general in my book. Certainly a time will tell situation. I have no issue with the move at this point, but, hey, as a CBJ fan I'll be like all fans and be pissed when he puts it together and becomes a 2/3 type defenseman.

They'll say that where a player is drafted doesn't matter as soon as he's drafted. They'll also point out the sunk cost fallacy and the fact that Waddell wasn't the one that drafted him. That said, you can't disregard draft capital a team has invested in a player.

To liken the situation to a car - If I inherit a car that someone spent $30,000 on 2 years ago and I think it's a lemon, it makes sense for me to sell it for $20,000. If I inherit a car someone spent $100,000 on 2 years ago and I think it's a lemon, a lot of people are going to be rightly upset if I sell it for $20,000. Even if it's a lemon, it behooves me to try to get it fixed as much as possible before giving up on it.

You know they are called lemons because they are inherently unfixable right?

 

[Gregor Samsa]

The about face opinions of people who had line in the sand beliefs about what Jiricek was worth vs what he returned is kind of wild.

That will always happen when a fanbase’s bias is involved. Everyone overrates their own prospects and underestimates other teams prospects barring a few immense talents.

Not related: It’s hard to tell how an 18 year old will be in 5-10 years. Part of the GM and developmental team’s job is to evaluate how a prospect is progressing. Prospects are either trade currency or a part of your future. If you think a prospect is more valuable in a trade than on your future team, you make that trade before value sinks. I don’t know much about Jiricek but Waddell clearly bet against Jiricek. It’s one of those trades that will either blow up in his face if Jiricek pans out as a top pair dman, or make him look smart because he cut bait at the right time and recouped value

 

[thestonedkoala]

Not arguing with you, but the CBJ room, system and coaching this year should have helped him jump start to improvement.

Not for anything, but isn't Elvis...a bit of a head case? And so is Werenski and his whole political beliefs?

 

[P10p]

CBJ wouldn't have traded him simply because he didn't want to be there. Jiricek has absolutely 0 leverage.

His leverage is he causes a scene, refuses to report to ahl, and his value tanks even more. How is that having no leverage

 

[Xoggz22]

Not for anything, but isn't Elvis...a bit of a head case? And so is Werenski and his whole political beliefs?

Well, I'm not in the room so I can't speak to these on authority, but I can say that Evason has been on record saying Elvis has been outstanding with his attitude and approach in the room. This was in a recent Portzline article on The Athletic. I'm sure he's going to say that, but he also came out and shut Elvis down after he lost a shutout bid in the last minute and slammed his stick, made a scene... yes, he likes the limelight and I think many of us would say he wasn't viewed as the best teammate, but I'm pretty sure not all teams have 23 guys with the same beliefs, mindset, attitude, approach.

As for Z... I have no idea about his political beliefs, but from there's been nothing that I've seen to indicate he's made them a point of issue within the organization (Whatever they are. This is the first I've heard of somethign like this)

 

[Viqsi]

Not arguing with you, but the CBJ room, system and coaching this year should have helped him jump start to improvement. I'm not disagreeing with your post. I think he has the ability to be a really good one, but the system played in Columbus preaches pinching and offense, which should have been perfect for him. What we're saying/seeing (CBJ fans) is that he's coming off as an entitled kid that feels he's already become a NHL defenseman. To your point, someone (besides his agent) needs to get his attention and buckle down to work on the warts he's shown. I wish him nothing but success. I have my doubts in the limited showing he's had in Columbus, but the skill set is there to be a good one. It's on him to change the narrative.

The only major difference between this and my take on him here is simply that I figured he'd ultimately find a way to do that here and thereby become something super-valuable that we need, rather than needing to make a trade happen. Folks seem to be thinking of the likes of Nikita Filatov ("trade him before he busts!") while my mind is more on someone like David Savard (seemingly intransigently stalled for years then suddenly "comes back out of nowhere").

 

[StreetHawk]

That will always happen when a fanbase’s bias is involved. Everyone overrates their own prospects and underestimates other teams prospects barring a few immense talents.

Not related: It’s hard to tell how an 18 year old will be in 5-10 years. Part of the GM and developmental team’s job is to evaluate how a prospect is progressing. Prospects are either trade currency or a part of your future. If you think a prospect is more valuable in a trade than on your future team, you make that trade before value sinks. I don’t know much about Jiricek but Waddell clearly bet against Jiricek. It’s one of those trades that will either blow up in his face if Jiricek pans out as a top pair dman, or make him look smart because he cut bait at the right time and recouped value

Waddell has no personal bias in Jiricek. Evaluating him based on what he is now, not what CBJ saw in 2022. Things can change in just over 2 years.

 

[Crede777]

You know they are called lemons because they are inherently unfixable right?

That's a good call out. At 21, I don't think we can say that a 6'3" defenseman like Jiricek is inherently unfixable. So that means I think Waddell jumped the gun on trying to recoup some assets for him. Again, not a big deal if the team hadn't invested a top-10 pick in him, but it turns out that they did.

Granted, Waddell could be entirely right and Jiricek could be worth less than what the Jackets recovered, but the move IMO was premature.

 

[StreetHawk]

That's a good call out. At 21, I don't think we can say that a 6'3" defenseman like Jiricek is inherently unfixable. So that means I think Waddell jumped the gun on trying to recoup some assets for him. Again, not a big deal if the team hadn't invested a top-10 pick in him, but it turns out that they did.

Granted, Waddell could be entirely right and Jiricek could be worth less than what the Jackets recovered, but the move IMO was premature.

6OA pick is now a Sunk Cost. You don't make decisions moving forward based on what you paid for the asset, which in this case was the 6OA pick in 2022.

Assess, what the player is going to be moving forward. Maybe its their evaluation of him as he didn't make their top 6 D group. Or maybe it's the strained relationship with the prior regime flipping on him. Who knows.

 

[Crede777]

6OA pick is now a Sunk Cost. You don't make decisions moving forward based on what you paid for the asset, which in this case was the 6OA pick in 2022.

Assess, what the player is going to be moving forward. Maybe its their evaluation of him as he didn't make their top 6 D group. Or maybe it's the strained relationship with the prior regime flipping on him. Who knows.

Just because something is a sunk cost does not mean you ignore it entirely.

But even if we say that the Jackets were just trying to maximize value on an asset, that requires a complete evaluation of that asset's value. There's no way they have a complete evaluation of a big defenseman who is 21. That player isn't close to fully developed yet.

But even if we say that the Jackets had a more or less complete evaluation of the player and were trying to maximize value... I really disagree with the assessment that frankensteining together a bunch of picks can recreate the asset in the aggregate like in Moneyball.

The odds of even that mid/late 1st rounder amounting to an NHL player are pretty small. Adding other even later picks doesn't help. If the Jackets use them, the overwhelming likelihood is that they will be wasted on players who don't make the NHL.

All that is to say that if the Jackets were set on shopping him, they should not have come down off the 1-for-1 ask. And if nobody offers that, they just keep him and tune out the relationship stuff until his contract comes up for renewal.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Someone on the Wild board mentioned this is a similar situation to El Nino and I can see it.

It is somewhat similar but it just once again highlights how much better return Jackets managed to get than the usual in these cases.

 

[SoundAndFury]

But even if we say that the Jackets had a more or less complete evaluation of the player and were trying to maximize value... I really disagree with the assessment that frankensteining together a bunch of picks can recreate the asset in the aggregate like in Moneyball.

Well, it's the only way big trades are done, what is there to say. Nobody is trading their core players in 1 for 1 trade. Like, Jiricek is not a sure thing. Nobody is going to trade the sure thing for something that is a gamble.

As mentioned before in this thread, Wild is probably one of very few teams in a position to spend that many assets on a potential gamble.

It's truly crazy how many people, after everything he has shown, still treat Jiricek basically as a sure-fire top pair D. He isn't. Making a trade like this is a major risk. At the same time, Jackets, by getting multiple assets back, mitigate the risk of getting absolutely nothing when all is said and done.

 

[Crede777]

Well, it's the only way big trades are done, what is there to say. Nobody is trading their core players in 1 for 1 trade. Like, Jiricek is not a sure thing. Nobody is going to trade the sure thing for something that is a gamble.

As mentioned before in this thread, Wild is probably one of very few teams in a position to spend that many assets on a potential gamble.

It's truly crazy how many people, after everything he has shown, still treat Jiricek basically as a sure-fire top pair D. He isn't. Making a trade like this is a major risk. At the same time, Jackets, by getting multiple assets back, mitigate the risk of getting absolutely nothing when all is said and done.

I don't think he is a sure fire top pairing player, but I do think the odds of him having an NHL career are much higher than any of the assets received in return.

Usually you're right that it's the only way a trade is done. But Jiricek is on his ELC. He won't be a UFA until 2030 at the earliest. There's no reason the Jackets were forced to trade him besides potentially placating him or avoiding a relationship 'headache.' But I had hoped the team would be resilient enough that something like that wouldn't threaten to upset the apple cart. When a 21 year old player asks for a trade, the team should have flat out told him it's not up to him.

 

[thestonedkoala]

It is somewhat similar but it just once again highlights how much better return Jackets managed to get than the usual in these cases.

Not really. Clutterbuck was a much more valuable asset than Hunt and was probably worth a low first and a third himself. As well el Nino didn't have the premium that a right defenseman has. So with that said Minnesota probably paid a small bit more.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Not really. Clutterbuck was a much more valuable asset than Hunt and was probably worth a low first and a third himself. As well el Nino didn't have the premium that a right defenseman has. So with that said Minnesota probably paid a small bit more.

Let me get this straight: assuming 3rds cancel each other out, you are saying that a 25-point bottom-6 forward is worth roughly the same as 1st, 2nd, 4th and a B-grade prospect? Are you for real? Or would you say just about anything to stick to your narrative?

Even if you value that kind of player really highly, it's a 2nd round pick. For reference see Malenstyn trade. First and third though?? What evidence is there anyone would ever pay anywhere close to that for that kind of player?

I don't think he is a sure fire top pairing player, but I do think the odds of him having an NHL career are much higher than any of the assets received in return.

On their own - sure. Collectively though? Hunt has played in the NHL already and even low 1st has a roughly 50% chance to become an NHL player. So this is a pretty bold take unless, again, you ARE sure he will have an NHL career.

 

[P10p]

People need to lay off the sunk cost fallacy argument. This isn't the casino. The probabilities are much different in scouting and a prospects past performance should be taken into account to some extent.