Post-Game Talk (GBU): Miller and Vanek carrying 18 bums

[zenthusiast]

You'll note that exactly 21:30:25 Sekera turns into a terrible defender

 

[Bosswally]

Ruff's post game speech

 

[jBuds]

I'm not sure I can recall off hand a worse performance. I am disgusted and embarrassed; I found myself rooting for a loss.

You've got probably the weakest, softest, empty-headed d unit to ever be assembled. Ennis, Stafford, and Foligno combined to form one of the toughest sights I've seen line-wise in a good while. Gerbe should not be on the team anymore. Hecht is horrendous. Pominville didn't play well despite his linemates coming to play.

And my good god - get Leopol_ the **** gone. I'm sick. I have stomach pains. We got outshot 3:1. Lost every puck battle possible. Lazy, disinterested, half assed effort that made me cringe.

Putting yourself through this game was equal to self torture. Without a doubt.

 

[VaporTrail]

What has Hecht done to warrant playing 18 minutes?

His poor play a few seasons ago when he decided to take a year off.....Otherwise Lindy would have him out there 20+

 

[joshjull]

I'm not sure I can recall off hand a worse performance. I am disgusted and embarrassed; I found myself rooting for a loss.

You've got probably the weakest, softest, empty-headed d unit to ever be assembled. Ennis, Stafford, and Foligno combined to form one of the toughest sights I've seen line-wise in a good while. Gerbe should not be on the team anymore. Hecht is horrendous. Pominville didn't play well despite his linemates coming to play.

And my good god - get Leopol_ the **** gone. I'm sick. I have stomach pains. We got outshot 3:1. Lost every puck battle possible. Lazy, disinterested, half assed effort that made me cringe.

Putting yourself through this game was equal to self torture. Without a doubt.

I would put a good chunk of that on Stafford. He has been bad all season. He leads the team in turnovers with 12, seems to have forgotten how to forecheck and looks listless. The other two are kids that should be leaning on him not the other way around. Would like to see Stafford off that line but not sure who would be a good replacement.

As I said earlier... Soooooooo tired of Stafford.

 

[TheMistyStranger]

Saw this on another site.

 

[joshjull]

Saw this on another site.

Thats awesome

 

[slip]

Saw this on another site.

Brilliant!

 

[Takeo]

Vanek has registered a point on 62% of Sabre goals so far. VHP has registered a point on 73%.

 

[tsujimoto74]

G:
-Miller
-Vanek
-The posts/crossbars
-I'm pretty sure I once saw Leopold make a play in his own end, and it wasn't a turnover

B:
-At any given point when the Sabres were in their own end, at best 3/5 of them has their man covered
-Does this team know how to forecheck?
-Hecht with 3x as much TOI as Grigorenko

U
-Dammit, Vanek/Miller, just let this team tank like they want to. Just think: it's only 30-something more games, and you could come back to a team minus Ruff and plus Jones!

 

[jBuds]

I would put a good chunk of that on Stafford. He has been bad all season. He leads the team in turnovers with 12, seems to have forgotten how to forecheck and looks listless. The other two are kids that should be leaning on him not the other way around. Would like to see Stafford off that line but not sure who would be a good replacement.

As I said earlier... Soooooooo tired of Stafford.

I'd agree with you if Foligno didn't show his capabilities last year when he motors. He doesn't have to do much else - JUST LOOK LIKE YOU ARE TRYING. He looks disinterested and tries to do too much with the puck. Problem is, he tries to do things at half speed or standing still. It is tough to watch. No free passes if you take several of your shifts off. Even the kids. All I want to see is effort.

 

[thekenneth]

only 15 shots on goal and they managed to win. wow

 

[joshjull]

I'd agree with you if Foligno didn't show his capabilities last year when he motors. He doesn't have to do much else - JUST LOOK LIKE YOU ARE TRYING. He looks disinterested and tries to do too much with the puck. Problem is, he tries to do things at half speed or standing still. It is tough to watch. No free passes if you take several of your shifts off. Even the kids. All I want to see is effort.

I knew this was going to happen with his burst last year. Unrealistic expectations. He ins't working any less than he was last year. His game is about cycling and play down low. When your linemate leads the team in turnovers, can't cycle the puck for **** right now and is downright garbage, you aren't going to look as good as you did last year. Being lost at times and not being sure what to do in certain situations is a common thing for rookies. Don't confuse it with being lazy or lack of effort.

That line looks disjointed because one of them is doing nothing and is a passenger. Stafford literally brining nothing to the table right now.

 

[Corto]

Good:
- Vanek
- Miller
- Sekera was okay in his first game back, 25 minutes of IT too
- Ott-Grigorenko-Hecht line got a goal, yay!
- defense helped out with goals... I guess

Bad:
- Stafford is completely invisible
- Ennis is just not my cup of tea, I don't see him being a top-6 forward on a Stanley Cup winner

Also, Hecht is old and has become inept offensively. His weak shots are frustrating me for the first time ever, in the past he someone made things happen with those weak, bad angled shots.
BUT... Can people stop complaining about his ice time? Especially compared to Grigorenko.
I realize every wants Grigorenko to succeed rapidly, but he is basically lost 90% of the time and him developing into a real potential star is going to be a long process.

 

[Jame]

I knew this was going to happen with his burst last year. Unrealistic expectations. He ins't working any less than he was last year. His game is about cycling and play down low. When your linemate leads the team in turnovers, can't cycle the puck for **** right now and is downright garbage, you aren't going to look as good as you did last year. Being lost at times and not being sure what to do in certain situations is a common thing for rookies. Don't confuse it with being lazy or lack of effort.

That line looks disjointed because one of them is doing nothing and is a passenger. Stafford literally brining nothing to the table right now.

at least you answered your own question about who the new whipping boy would be...

 

[jBuds]

I knew this was going to happen with his burst last year. Unrealistic expectations. He ins't working any less than he was last year. His game is about cycling and play down low. When your linemate leads the team in turnovers, can't cycle the puck for **** right now and is downright garbage, you aren't going to look as good as you did last year. Being lost at times and not being sure what to do in certain situations is a common thing for rookies. Don't confuse it with being lazy or lack of effort.

That line looks disjointed because one of them is doing nothing and is a passenger. Stafford literally brining nothing to the table right now.

And I knew your response was going to be a completely inaccurate assumption that I'm basing my expectations on the points he produced down the stretch last year. Not even close. He showed what kind of player he is when he plays with energy, passion, and a punishing attitude on the forecheck. That's GONE.

If you think his effort this year is the same as it was last year, you're on another ****ing planet (a generic comment to anyone, not just you). If you think he needs Stafford to initiate the cycle in order for him to move his feet... or if Stafford has any bearing on him simply chipping the puck in deep and getting after it instead of dipsy-doodling with it at the blueline flatfooted, I'm wasting my energy.

We get it - you don't think Stafford is playing well. You're right. Foligno doesn't need Stafford at the top of his game to execute a dump and chase.

Dump the puck in.

Chase after it.

You said it yourself: his game is about getting the puck in low and working the walls. Stafford's turnovers aside, Foligno has done nothing remotely close to what he was doing when he was effective. And I'm ignoring production. Strictly effort and approach.

No slack gets cut if you don't work, no matter age or experience. He so blatantly looks complacent now that he has a permanent spot.

EDIT: you can "look lost at times" and "not know what to do in certain situations"...and still look like you're trying and putting forth maximum effort. He doesn't IMO

EDIT2: I've been on Stafford's case since the second game of the year. But to blame him for the shortcomings of Ennis and Foligno is inaccurate. All three have their fair share of individual problems, culminating in an absolutely abysmal trio. When the line was broken up, each of the three looked just as ineffective as they do now when playing as a threesome

 

[Jame]

Ruff cuts off the balls of players like Foligno...

 

[dire wolf]

luckiest win I've seen in a while. 'nuff said

 

[Royisgone]

I knew this was going to happen with his burst last year. Unrealistic expectations. He ins't working any less than he was last year. His game is about cycling and play down low. When your linemate leads the team in turnovers, can't cycle the puck for **** right now and is downright garbage, you aren't going to look as good as you did last year. Being lost at times and not being sure what to do in certain situations is a common thing for rookies. Don't confuse it with being lazy or lack of effort.

That line looks disjointed because one of them is doing nothing and is a passenger. Stafford literally brining nothing to the table right now.

Stafford has been a passenger his entire career.

He has good size, good skill, and is said to be one of the stronger players on the team.

If he had the work ethic of Ellis and the spunk of Gerbe, he would be a star in this league.

As he is, he is worthless, and I've been saying that about this guy from the beginning.

Stafford is the poster boy for why this franchise is stale and Regier/Ruff have to go.

A winning organization does not retain or continue to believe in born losers like Drew Stafford. It's not good for morale and it sends the wrong messages.

 

[buffalowing88]

Good:
-I thought Grigs looked better than usual in his limited ice time. He will be a stud one day, it just takes a lot of time.
-Vanek as per usual
-Miller
-I was fine with Ehrhoff
-Weber was pretty crappy in his own end but the guy IS physical
-Hodgson...is this our franchise center we have been waiting on? He's ALL OVER the ice.

Bad:
-Sekera got pushed around all night.

Ugly:
-Foligno, Ennis and Stafford were worthless as always
-I think Hecht is playing better than he did last year but there is no reason for him to get so many minutes when we could put a top 6 forward into his dual-line role.

 

[jBuds]

Stafford has been a passenger his entire career.

He has good size, good skill, and is said to be one of the stronger players on the team.

If had the work ethic of Ellis and the spunk of Gerbe, he would be a star in this league.

As he is, he is worthless, and I've been saying that about this guy from the beginning.

Stafford is the poster boy for why this franchise is stale and Regier/Ruff have to go.

A winning organization does not retain or continue to believe in born losers like Drew Stafford. It's not good for morale and it sends the wrong messages.

I don't want this guy as a part of our "core" of the future, nor do I want him donning a letter indicating he has any form of leadership. His inconsistency is maddening.

He hasn't been a passenger his entire career, but certainly close enough to that to where you can say what you said and not be laughed at as insane.

I don't like him - I admit it...personal bias against him.

BUT

He's a huge part of the problem right now. Not the problem

 

[Royisgone]

And I knew your response was going to be a completely inaccurate assumption that I'm basing my expectations on the points he produced down the stretch last year. Not even close. He showed what kind of player he is when he plays with energy, passion, and a punishing attitude on the forecheck. That's GONE.

If you think his effort this year is the same as it was last year, you're on another ****ing planet (a generic comment to anyone, not just you). If you think he needs Stafford to initiate the cycle in order for him to move his feet... or if Stafford has any bearing on him simply chipping the puck in deep and getting after it instead of dipsy-doodling with it at the blueline flatfooted, I'm wasting my energy.

We get it - you don't think Stafford is playing well. You're right. Foligno doesn't need Stafford at the top of his game to execute a dump and chase.

Dump the puck in.

Chase after it.

You said it yourself: his game is about getting the puck in low and working the walls. Stafford's turnovers aside, Foligno has done nothing remotely close to what he was doing when he was effective. And I'm ignoring production. Strictly effort and approach.

No slack gets cut if you don't work, no matter age or experience. He so blatantly looks complacent now that he has a permanent spot.

EDIT: you can "look lost at times" and "not know what to do in certain situations"...and still look like you're trying and putting forth maximum effort. He doesn't IMO

EDIT2: I've been on Stafford's case since the second game of the year. But to blame him for the shortcomings of Ennis and Foligno is inaccurate. All three have their fair share of individual problems, culminating in an absolutely abysmal trio. When the line was broken up, each of the three looked just as ineffective as they do now when playing as a threesome

Regarding all the Foligno comments: I agree with your take.

It is not hard to see when a player is flying around at maximum effort and creating a disruptive force that creates problems for the opposition. That is who Foligno was last year, and he quickly became a favorite of a lot of posters here for that reason. The fact that this team has had such few players of that sort for years also played a role in that.

His point production last season was an unexpected bonus and likely just statistical deviation.

To say he is close to playing that way this year is silly.

As Jame said, this is attributable in part to Ruff. He seems to have a unique skill for not allowing players to express themselves in the ways they know how. Everything is forced into Lindy's idea for how it should be.

Add in an institutionalized acceptance of mediocrity/failure as a corporate culture, and Foligno's regression is easily explained.

 

[CrazyPsycho]

Ruff cuts off the balls of players like Foligno...

100% agree with this. Varada lost his edge, Mair lost his edge, Kaleta is just a body at this point......it's a talking point that doesn't get talked about.

I will never forget the day in 02-03?!? when Varada fired a puck at a guy in the front row that had a bag on his head in pregame warmups, went right up to him and harrassed the guy until he took it off.

 

[jBuds]

I think that - if you want to pin the downfall of a player on his linemate or linemates - you have the strongest case in Ennis, not Foligno (and certainly not Drew Stafford). Ennis exploded at the end of last year due in large part to the time and space that Foligno and Stafford created for him by working the walls after getting the puck in deep and grinding it out on the forecheck. Because of the forecheck, and the idea of the two big bodies coming at opponents at full speed early in games had opposing dmen backing off a bit as games went on, Ennis was able to carry the puck more freely as games elapsed...and you saw Ennis charge up ice and lead the attack. That aspect is completely gone from that line, and Ennis is seemingly suffering.

That's not to justify Tyler's lackluster play. Like I said above, the three of them have their individual issues/deficiencies that extend beyond the trio as a line. Ennis looks a lot more hesitant and tentative, Foligno looks complacent, and Stafford looks abysmal across the board.

Side rant:

To Drew, from jbuddy -

You get paid to score goals. You get paid a lot of money to score goals. Try producing some offense? All I want out of Foligno at this point is effort. He's young, so I won't get on him for only having one goal through 12 gp. You have no excuse for piss poor showings and lazy, disinterested offerings at this point in your career; the rollercoaster ride that is your on-ice play is maddeningly frustrating, considering that you're blessed with a combo of size, strength, great hands, a good shot, and pretty decent vision when peaking.

WAKE THE **** UP.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Amen to side rants.