Neutrinos
Registered User
- Sep 23, 2016
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I thought this might make for an interesting discussion since both players were short, right-handed shooting offensive stars
Which one was better?
Which one was better?
1961-62 NHL 77 (3rd) |
1962-63 NHL 76 (3rd) |
1963-64 NHL 89 (1st) |
1964-65 NHL 87 (1st) |
1965-66 NHL 78 (2nd) |
1966-67 NHL 97 (1st) |
1967-68 NHL 87 (1st) |
1968-69 NHL 97 (4th) |
1969-70 NHL 86 (3rd) |
18-team then 21-team league...even purely offensively, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 6 (dionne with gretzky taken out) is weaker than mikita's 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4...
18-team then 21-team league
vs.
6-team then 12-team league
And Mikita had HHOFer Pilote moving the puck up ice, and a team good enough to go to the bloody Stanley Cup Finals five times (and win the Stanley Cup) whereas Dionne was in LA, a franchise that never even reached the conference finals ever until 2012.
Corrected. The key point stands: not during his many years has the team gotten even close to the finals. It wasn't like he was playing with HHOF skaters. He himself repeatedly wondered how his career could have gone if he played for the Habs like Lafleur did.
I also heard B Hull was better than C Simmer.18-team then 21-team league
vs.
6-team then 12-team league
And Mikita had HHOFer Pilote moving the puck up ice, and a team good enough to go to the bloody Stanley Cup Finals five times (and win the Stanley Cup) whereas Dionne was in LA, a franchise that never reached the conference finals in its history until the nineties.
I also heard B Hull was better than C Simmer.
The guy you quoted also left Lafleur out of his very good analysis, not that Mikita didn’t have a ton of top guys to compete with.
I’m not arguing for Dionne one bit, just wanted to throw those in there. I don’t think there is a big gap if we are speaking about offence only.
Dionne was better but played for a substantially worse team.
Mikita was probably the 4th or 5th best player of the 60's, had the best player of the 60's on a different line taking the hard matchups away from him.
No one scored more than Dionne between 1975-1985.where do you have dionne in the 70s?
i have him unquestionably behind at least orr, lafleur, espo, clarke, and potvin, so that's 6th at best.
Sure, but even cherry-picking those specific 10 years, he's like this (I'm counting minimum 600 GP):No one scored more than Dionne between 1975-1985.
(It is no more arbitrary than to look at a decade's best players.)
where do you have dionne in the 70s?
i have him unquestionably behind at least orr, lafleur, espo, clarke, and potvin, so that's 6th at best.
and that's not even getting into dryden, big bird, park, or any soviet players.
a physical presence (which Dionne was not)
Mikita has the edge in scoring finishes (due to Crosby’s injuries)Honestly I am not so sure I see a, strong, objective case for Crosby over Mikita. Dionne is not that close to either.
Mikita has the edge in scoring finishes (due to Crosby’s injuries)
1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4 vs 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 6, 10
Crosby has the superior playoff resume with two smythes and two second place finishes
Also Crosby did all this while being the main focus of other teams where as Mikita was more of a malkin/jagr
Agreed. I have Mikita over Dionne for sure. Mikita has some playoff success at least. Mikita and his hardware are very elite but like you said there’s context behind it. And the 60’s was not exactly a strong era in nhl history.Two more points:
In the 60s, Mikita and Hull had the advantage of seeing more ice time than stars on other teams, on a team that was more offensive minded than other teams. Similar to Jagr, Anaheim Selanne/Kariya, or Florida Bure during the dead puck era. Not saying Mikita was as weak defensively as those guys; just that his offensive stats due need to be taken in that context. All that said, even after context, I take his regular season offense alone over Dionne, and regular season offense is all Dionne really has.
Crosby was has widely been considered the best player of his generation. Mikita was 3rd or 4th.
Agreed. I have Mikita over Dionne for sure. Mikita has some playoff success at least. Mikita and his hardware are very elite but like you said there’s context behind it. And the 60’s was not exactly a strong era in nhl history.
I also don’t know mikitas hart record off by heart? Does anyone?