Mike Richards next Goal of the Year Contest

[Winger23]

I know stats mean nothing compared to intangibles, but just for fun and discussion

Here are the # of even-strength goals against for the Kings top 6 forwards this season (based on average TOI)

Mike Richards - 27
Jeff Carter - 22
Justin Williams - 16
Jarret Stoll - 15
Dustin Brown - 12
Anze Kopitar - 12

Other than keeping the Kings two best forwards together on line one, this is likely another reason that certain players no longer play together. Although in fairness to Carter, the amount of times he has been on the ice for GA has gone down since he started playing with Kopitar.

All i care about, is what is the Kings record since Carter was paired with Kopi? Even with giving up more goals than the rest of the forwards, the team was scoring goals, and gasp...winning games.

 

[KaraLupin]

Concussions. Rather he will admit it or not, they have taken a little sharpness from his game.

Still a great player though, and one the most important pieces on the team.

 

[etherialone]

i love richards but one thing that bugs me on this board is that people defend him when hes playing bad with statements like the bolded above or by saying he canon!

its okay for people to be critical on a player who is playing like garbage...

hes looked better of late and obviously will pick it up eventually

Then it's a good thing that I gave more reasons for MR being a valuable player for our team. You can quote these listed below too and I agree that it is alright to bash a player when they are struggling in one area of play or another but

MR is MR

MR HE CANON

And MR is a very important part of the team.

He IS having his troubles in some ways but is still great in others.

I have no problem when people have a bunch or a little to say on the boards about anything so long as they get their point across.


Hey Herby,


MR is struggling in some areas of play. I too expect him to pick things up ofencively and think that he is slumping in the O zone.

MR is one of those guys who are important to a winning team in the same way that other championship players are in that they bring a sort of indefinable presence to the team. I was part of a championship winning team and we had a couple of leaders back then that went on to be winners in the NHL. During the championship run they had their ups and downs but when things were flat out on the line they raised their games and lead the way to our overall victory.

Stat's don't show everything but they do at least show you who is struggling and who is performing as expected. I hate to play the intangibles card but to me MR is one of those rare players who brings those very things to the team.

Do I want him to pop in 60+ pts or more every year? Yep. If he doesn't does that mean that he has had a terrible season? Not to me. I think he can play himself into a bit less ice time and not that best line mates which will lower his scoring but that is about it. He is still very valuable to the teams overall success in my eyes.

I agree that he needs to get his game up offencively and it is frustrating watching him during his goal scoring drought but to define him by one area of his game where he is struggling seems wrong to me when he brings so much more to the team.

But I am not a stat guy all too often. MR is struggling offencively no doubt about it but he has more than earned his down times to me.

I know we will have to agree to disagree on this and I see where you are coming from. I just see things differently.

 

[Herby]

But TG, who is defining him just on goal scoring?

He isn't scoring, he is playing terrible defensively and he isn't very physical. I don't think any of those can be debated this season.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I absolutely think he needs to play better but I also think we're a bit spoiled...collectively we need to ask ourselves who replaces him in the lineup if he's gone? The quick answer is Vey, right? Kopitar-Vey-Stoll isn't a championship team in my eyes. The answer is he picks it up. Richie will be fine, but I understand the worry, and Herby that goals against is a very good visual for what we were talking about elsewhere.

 

[KINGS17]

I don't want anyone to replace Mike Richards in the lineup, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some offensive production from his line when he and Toffoli are seeing more favorable matchups. The top pairings from other teams are going up against the Kopitar and Stoll lines. Richards' line has to produce. Sutter has assembled lines that in theory should work. If the Richards' line doesn't start pulling its weight pretty soon, Sutter will have to go back to do something that I guarantee will make the 3rd and 4th lines impotent in the offensive zone.

Much better effort by the Richards' line against Detroit last night. If the 3rd line can start clicking at all the Kings will have 3 good scoring lines.

 

[The Butcher]

It's not that MR "can do no wrong" it's more about he's not this bum some of you are making him out to be.

 

[KingKopitar11*]

It's not that MR "can do no wrong" it's more about he's not this bum some of you are making him out to be.

No one says he is a bum, but he's playing like one, only yesterday was his best game in a long time, he's third center for a reason right now. He needs to start executing and producing, it's good he's playing better, but with the kind of player he is, he's got to be producing too.

 

[Kurrilino]

I can't believe you guys are pointing always on a single player.
Just a look at the stats over the last years is showing a horrible picture.
As closer as players come to their peak as less goals they score.

I see it like as more mature players get as more do they follow the coaches game plan.
So i'm not even wondering why his goals decrease since 2008 season.
That was exactly the time when the Kings hired Terry Murray
who instantly killed all creativity and 2 way hockey.
Why they fired him to hire his clone in Sutter is far beyond me.

I predict as long as we have clowns as coaches we won't see any 30 goal scorer anymore. Not to mention having 3 or 4.
To bad you need to score goals to win a hockey game.
|They should really change the rules and demount both goals to just play on the open field.
They could clock the puck possession time as game winning indicator or something like that.
I bet lots of kings head office and coaching people would have tight pants watching that

 

[etherialone]

But TG, who is defining him just on goal scoring?

He isn't scoring, he is playing terrible defensively and he isn't very physical. I don't think any of those can be debated this season.

Fair points.

I am responding to the title (not the op) of this thread in the goal scoring and to some who have spoken against MR due to his lack of scoring.

I disagree with the idea that his D play is terrible. In fact I think at times it has been exceptional when all is considered. He has (as have others) been Ftorek'd around and had players like Lewis (who is having his own struggles as well and doesn't belong anywhere near a scoring line as it isn't his strong suite) as his LW while the musical chair line mates has gone on.

Not to say that he shouldn't have played better but when he is trying to be everything to everyone while covering for a rookie sniper and a revolving door of unacceptable off wingers I am will to give the guy a bunch of slack based on who he has been as a player both for us and since he strapped on a pair of skates.

I understand that those opinions only go so far but we aren't through with the season or the playoffs yet and I am willing to wait until we are before I make any real opinion about where MR's game is at until then. Is he struggling? Yep. But I see other variables that have to be considered before I am willing to be overly critical of his game.

I point the finger more at DS and our coaching staff then any of our players at this point IF a finger needs to be pointed. It is DS' decision about who he wants to play and where. Facts are we were a much better team when he played much better players then the ones we have today. Nolan out and both Fraser/Lewis in drastically changes out bottom line and allows for our opponents to drive the net with much less trepidation as we saw last night.

I understand that DS and crew are trying to find the perfect set up that will win us another cup this year so we have to be patient but I don't agree with everything that is or has been being done up to this point.

To me that is why a couple of our players are running hot and cold and why some of them are struggling and if we are careful all of our experimentation with line set ups can cost us the season.

I have faith and will wait it out but that is where my concerns lay more than on any one player if that helps.

 

[The Butcher]

I can't believe you guys are pointing always on a single player.
Just a look at the stats over the last years is showing a horrible picture.
As closer as players come to their peak as less goals they score.

I see it like as more mature players get as more do they follow the coaches game plan.
So i'm not even wondering why his goals decrease since 2008 season.
That was exactly the time when the Kings hired Terry Murray
who instantly killed all creativity and 2 way hockey.
Why they fired him to hire his clone in Sutter is far beyond me.

I predict as long as we have clowns as coaches we won't see any 30 goal scorer anymore. Not to mention having 3 or 4.
To bad you need to score goals to win a hockey game.
|They should really change the rules and demount both goals to just play on the open field.
They could clock the puck possession time as game winning indicator or something like that.
I bet lots of kings head office and coaching people would have tight pants watching that

That "clown" you speak of was the first LA Kings coach to do this.

 

[MsMeow]

It's not that MR "can do no wrong" it's more about he's not this bum some of you are making him out to be.

Exactly my point. There are a couple of posters here who only come over to complain when things aren't going well but never give credit where it's due when they are playing well.

 

[Herby]

Exactly my point. There are a couple of posters here who only come over to complain when things aren't going well but never give credit where it's due when they are playing well.

And there are a couple of posters here who can't accept when the player they switched teams for struggles.

@Butcher. Like KK11 said, no one thinks he is a bum player, if people thought he was a bum like Fraser or Clifford this thread wouldn't exist. People just expect him to play better than he has. Right now he looks like crap offensively and even worse defensively.

BTW TG, exceptional defensively? In 2014? The guy is a goals against magnet, and those goals against were happening long before Sutter switched up the lines. Those numbers tell you he is not an exceptional defender, he is actually quite a poor defensive player this season.

 

[KingKopitar11*]

He's been Brutal defensively this year, he's been terrible on the back check and he gets out muscled on the stick easily this year. I don't know what it is, I'm not saying he's a bum, and stop pointing the finger at the bottom 6, Mike's gets paid big bucks, so if a bottom 6 player or a rookie is playing bad, that's understandable, but a vet making over 7 million this year leads the team on goals against, that's a pretty big problem.

I've said it before, from what I see of Mike on the ice, he looks really unfit. I wonder how he looks with out all the gear, and have someone do a strength and conditioning test on him.

 

[The Butcher]

He's been Brutal defensively this year, he's been terrible on the back check and he gets out muscled on the stick easily this year. I don't know what it is, I'm not saying he's a bum, and stop pointing the finger at the bottom 6, Mike's gets paid big bucks, so if a bottom 6 player or a rookie is playing bad, that's understandable, but a vet making over 7 million this year leads the team on goals against, that's a pretty big problem.

I've said it before, from what I see of Mike on the ice, he looks really unfit. I wonder how he looks with out all the gear, and have someone do a strength and conditioning test on him.

I just don't see MR as the kind of guy to just all of a sudden stop worrying about his conditioning and fitness. Admittedly, I could be way off, but from everything I've read and heard about the guy is that he works as hard in the gym as anyone.

 

[KingKopitar11*]

I just don't see MR as the kind of guy to just all of a sudden stop worrying about his conditioning and fitness. Admittedly, I could be way off, but from everything I've read and heard about the guy is that he works as hard in the gym as anyone.

I could be wrong, it's just something that I think might be attributing to his play, he's looked out of shape before like the start of past year. So I'm just guessing.

 

[Kurrilino]

That "clown" you speak of was the first LA Kings coach to do this.

He came here half season gone.
We won the cup because we didnt play his style.
We were playing agressive 2 way hockey.
These days we play his system

 

[Reclamation Project]

He's an NHL athlete. Let's get real.

 

[KingKopitar11*]

He's an NHL athlete. Let's get real.

So is Penner, Byfuglien, Wellwood. Just because you're an NHL athlete doesn't mean you're in great shape. Let's actually be realistic.










AND Oh my god I can finally edit my posts! Take that mods! lol.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

So is Penner, Byfuglien, Wellwood. Just because you're an NHL athlete doesn't mean you're in great shape. Let's actually be realistic.


AND Oh my god I can finally edit my posts! Take that mods! lol.

They're still pro athletes. It's relative.

 

[KingKopitar11*]

They're still pro athletes. It's relative.

Yeah, again, doesn't mean every player is in great shape.

It's no shock that Stoll, Carter, and Kopitar are in peak form and always on the hustle on ice.

 

[The Butcher]

He came here half season gone.
We won the cup because we didnt play his style.
We were playing agressive 2 way hockey.
These days we play his system

Do you actually believe that or are you just blowing off steam? I think many that are around the team and around the league would disagree with you.

 

[kingsfan]

First off, I don't hate the guy, not a huge fan but hate is a strong word reserved for the likes of Ryan Smyth.

Ok, how about we say you think he's overrated then. Whatever.

I do think he is without question the most overrated player the Kings have had since I have been a fan, have said that numerous times.

If Mike Richards is the most overrated player the Kings have ever had, we should have a pile of banners in the rafters. Like him, don't like him, the guy has been quite successful his entire career, and he was the most overrated guy we've had than this team, which has a long list of overrated players (Aki Berg anyone?) should be on par with the Detroit Red Wings.

I just like the counter balance the people who think he walked on water into the lockerroom and made the Kings a champion. The treatment of him vs. Kopitar by Kings fans is comical. Kopi has never played anywhere close to this awful in his career and is always called out for much much less.

I'm not one of those that thinks he walks on water, though I am a big Richards supporter. Ditto for Kopitar. That said, are you perhaps forgetting about Kopitars annual mid-season vacation he takes annually? The whole three goals he scored in the final 25 games of the regular season last year? The six goals he scored in the final 43 games (counting playoffs) last season? Kopitar gets bashed for a reason, and one he's earned. i still think Kopi is the most valueable forward we have, and top three on the team, but Kopitar isn't perfect and certainly isn't lights out ahead of Richards.

I hated using the PIM's stat, I truly did, but he has not been physical this season, nowhere near where he was in the prime years of his career, I don't see how anyone who watches Kings games could think otherwise, and while I hated using that stat it does reflect the change in his game. Do you really see the same physical player of his younger years.

I never seen him as physical in the first place. He's the type that will get physical when he needs to but I never seen him as a physical force.

Offense, well 12 games is a quarter of the season, so when a guy no-shows for a quarter of a season it's a factor.

Agreed, but you said 'season', not 1/4 of a season. Big difference.

Still wondering though, on the rest of the season. Is the guy is a product of Carter? It's pretty clear at this point, to me atleast, that he is. He can put up assists when passing to Carter and doesn't do much offensively away from Carter.

He very well might be. That said, who isn't?

A better question to ponder is what he'd be like with a different proven goalscorer on his wing. Toffoli is great, love the kid, but he isn't proven. I'd like to see Richards with WIlliams a bit more often and see how they do. But Williams and Kopi are together so much because they click. Give Richards another option that's expeirenced and let's see what happens then.

Like K17 said, no excuse that Richards playing 3rd line can't produce points with Tyler Toffoli against second and third options defensively. When you pay someone close to $8 in actual dollars and close to $6 in cap, they shouldn't need Jeff Carter training wheels to ride the bike.

So what is the level of production you'd deem acceptable? Again, as I showed, Kopitar produced the same last season as Richards is now, and he got more PP time and overall ice time, while earning even more of a cap hit. Why is he ok in your books?

On the defense, well you acknowledged the PK part, which I will just say that his numbers will go down with Kopitar and Stoll playing better on the PK.

Debateable, but also not a factor in you claiming he's been bad thus far. What he will or won't do is irrelevant in a discussion on what he has already done.

But what about the other part, if a guy is such a well rounded player who does things that don't show up on the stat sheet how is he on the ice for so many goals against (no matter who his linemates are)? How many has he been on the ice for? How does this compare to the rest of the team? Show us these stats?

How does he make so many questionable defensive plays/reads?

I don't think he makes any more than any other player, give or take. I think you are just overcritical of some players, such as Richards and Stoll.

How come Jeff Carter's goals-against go down so drastically when he is away from Richards. (whether he is with Kopi or centering his own line).

Again, link to these stats.

What grade would you give Mike Richards as a defensive player?

An incomplete, like all other players so far this year. I don't judge many players mid-season unless they have been horrendous. To me that'd be a limited crew, such as Matt Frattin.

 

[The Butcher]

I think that a lot of these guys save their best secrets as far a preparation (interpret that how you will) for big games and the playoffs. I've seen the Kings, even when they were losing playoff series, seem to get an extra spring in their step for big games.

Soooo many things can effect a player. Stomach or virus problems, personal stuff, chicks, sleep disorders, etc. can effect an athlete the same as any one of us. I'm not making excuses for MR because he has a history of letting none of this stuff get in his way when the biggest games are on the line. Until he stops delivering in those moments, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Herby]

kingsfan,

The goals against stats are posted in this thread.