Mike Keenan question?

[eco's bones]

The thing he was telling Leetch early on was--'you're no Chris Chelios'.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I have an interesting perspective as a Rangers fan who has lived in St. Louis for a long time including Keenan's tenure with the Blues. No idea if he is a nice guy outside the sport but probably the worst within it. Just one atrocity after another.

 

[Bob Richards]

The thing he was telling Leetch early on was--'you're no Chris Chelios'.

Told him that in front of the locker room I believe. Losing the Edge didn't really spare details when it came to showing Keenan to be pretty shitty lol.

When Mike Gartner hit 600 career goals Keenan made sure he knew that the guys who did it before him were legends and that Gartner was more or less just an intruder.

 

[eco's bones]

Told him that in front of the locker room I believe. Losing the Edge didn't really spare details when it came to showing Keenan to be pretty ****ty lol.

When Mike Gartner hit 600 career goals Keenan made sure he knew that the guys who did it before him were legends and that Gartner was more or less just an intruder.

Nothing against Glenn Anderson--he's in the Hall of Fame too--but by the time we traded Gartner for him his career was in decline and the road to the Cup would have probably been easier if we'd kept Gartner. For whatever reason Keenan hated Gartner. Really part of what I think it was Keenan originally coached the Flyers and he looked at guys like Leetch, Patrick, Gartner, Amonte and Turcotte as too soft. He took one look at Todd Marchant who had just come out of college and decided he was too small and off he went to Edmonton too and that guy must have played well over a 1000 NHL games.

 

[leetch99]

Geesh...must have been a lot of guys happy to see Keenan go after the Cup .

 

[Good Intentions]

You couldn't be more wrong, speaking from personal experience.

What personal experience do you have with Mike Keenan? By (too many) accounts, he is a true piece of shit. Where there’s smoke, there’s fire. He was always a problem. Always. Rode him right out of the country.

 

[Bluenote13]

Let's not forget, Ranger fans despised this guy even before he got to the Rangers.

I don't think anyone I knew felt 'excited' that Keenan was hired.

We won the Cup, was glad to see Keenan exit, plus we got good compensation.

The problem was that it took us another 10 years to find a decent coach.

 

[dstoffa]

The other thing--if Barry Meisel is to be believed anyway--is that Messier pretty much took over the Rangers the last two playoff rounds because Keenan (besides all the secret negotiating he was doing) had lost the thread and was making all kinds of bizarre decisions--kind of a coaching equivalent of a nervous breakdown. Whether true or not--I don't find it unbelievable. There was goofy **** going on with him all year long like his Leetch to Chicago for Grimson trade idea and when he did get the GM job later on with the Blues he was pretty awful.

If Messier is not in that room, and if Messier doesn't hold the team together against the Devils and the Canucks... We'd still be hearing 1940 chants.

 

[Gardner McKay]

What personal experience do you have with Mike Keenan? By (too many) accounts, he is a true piece of ****. Where there’s smoke, there’s fire. He was always a problem. Always. Rode him right out of the country.

That is not something I will share publicly but if you want to PM me, I'll explain.

 

[AKA Chief]

Keenan spent practically that entire season going behind Neil Smith's back to the management above. The fact of the matter is he's a bit of a snake. Part of his purpose though was to get rid of players he didn't like and bring in ones that he did. That worked out really well as far as our bringing in Steve Larmer. It worked out well for the short term in bringing in Brian Noonan and Stephane Matteau but that trade came at the price of a young Tony Amonte. Keenan came out of training camp though wanting to trade Brian Leetch and his target player was Stu Grimson. But in any case players he didn't like included Mike Gartner, Amonte, Darren Turcotte, James Patrick---he grew to like Leetch. He didn't seem to like Eddie O. much though. Anyway Smith and him came to really hate each other and then he decided to go behind everyone's back again and negotiate with Detroit and St. Louis--this while the team was still playing which is pretty damned evil and also illegal by the NHL's bylaws.

I'm happy about that year but I never missed Keenan because in my eyes he's just a total *******.

Smith was no better as I remember reports that Smith basically withheld the bonus Keenan was due by one day in order to give Keenan the way out.

Still the rangers best GM and Head Coach of my lifetime! It was toxic but I have nothing but love for those guys.

 

[eco's bones]

Smith was no better as I remember reports that Smith basically withheld the bonus Keenan was due by one day in order to give Keenan the way out.

Still the rangers best GM and Head Coach of my lifetime! It was toxic but I have nothing but love for those guys.

I don't know if I'd call Smith no better. I'm not a huge fan of Neil Smith. He helped build the team up and then he kind of sold the farm to keep it going. We could say his first few years were excellent in that he got us a Cup but the last few not so hot.

But as far as the situation with Keenan--it was an untenable situation and they whipped up this solution to save both the team and Keenan some embarrassment. No doubt Smith wanted Keenan out but because of Keenan's constant meddling and continually going behind his back and not going to him when he needed something. The two had come to hate each other but the onus is mostly on Keenan because of his constant bad behavior.

 

[Jxmarts]

Wait...he wanted to trade Brian ****ing Leetch for the Grim reaper? That'd be Middleton for Hodge on steroids, crack, and meth. Leetch was just two years removed from an 100 point season!

I remember the talk during the season was that Keenan was pushing for a Leetch-Chelios swap. If Grimson was involved, he would've been a minor piece in the deal.

Chelios was arguably a better all around player than Leetch, but he was 6 years older. He wound up having an exceptionally long career, but not as many prime years left as Leetch. Keenan obviously didn't care about that as he knew he was not in it for the long haul with the Rangers.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Plenty of people are nice or friendly out of a work environment. I've worked with people who are fine people socially and when you don't work directly with them, but in a job or as a manager make you want to drink.

I met Torts in 2013 the weekend before Gaborik was traded. Was in public a non-hockey situation. A total gentleman (it also probably helped that I didn't make a scene, try to take a picture lol).

Keenan is probably a really nice guy now. He's been removed from NHL coaching for a decade.

Funny story, when he took the Calgary job in the late 2000s, my friends and I had a pool going on how long he would last. I went "over" with three seasons.

 

[dstoffa]

Smith was no better as I remember reports that Smith basically withheld the bonus Keenan was due by one day in order to give Keenan the way out.

Still the rangers best GM and Head Coach of my lifetime! It was toxic but I have nothing but love for those guys.

There was a lot of crap going on at the Corporate Level at that time. Paramount (The Felt Forum was named the "Paramount" during this stretch of ownership) was trying to divest itself of the Garden, its team, and the TV Network. They were in negotiations with a partnership of ITT and Cablevision at the time, and there was pressure upstairs to ensure the "team" stayed intact and not jeparize the sale.

The "lost" bonus check was the means to the end, without ruffling the feathers and put the sale at risk.

 

[dstoffa]

I don't know if I'd call Smith no better. I'm not a huge fan of Neil Smith. He helped build the team up and then he kind of sold the farm to keep it going. We could say his first few years were excellent in that he got us a Cup but the last few not so hot.

Niel Smith built the club to the point that it had the assets required to get the assets it didn't have in order to win the Stanley Cup. For that, he should be praised. You go for it when you think you have a shot. Admitting you are not ready is self-defeating.

So he traded Tony Amonte for two overtime playoff goals against the Devils. Smart trade? Yes, only because the Cup was won.

Neil Smith's mistake, in my opinion, was not realizing that he couldn't keep going for it. FA rules back then made it easy to put band aids over the gunshot wound. By the time everyone ran out of gas, there was no young(er) blood in the pipeline.

 

[eco's bones]

Niel Smith built the club to the point that it had the assets required to get the assets it didn't have in order to win the Stanley Cup. For that, he should be praised. You go for it when you think you have a shot. Admitting you are not ready is self-defeating.

So he traded Tony Amonte for two overtime playoff goals against the Devils. Smart trade? Yes, only because the Cup was won.

Neil Smith's mistake, in my opinion, was not realizing that he couldn't keep going for it. FA rules back then made it easy to put band aids over the gunshot wound. By the time everyone ran out of gas, there was no young(er) blood in the pipeline.

Smith was good until about 95-96. After that he kind of lost the thread. Players have a shelf life--most general managers and coaches do too. Smith went past his.

 

[eco's bones]

I remember the talk during the season was that Keenan was pushing for a Leetch-Chelios swap. If Grimson was involved, he would've been a minor piece in the deal.

Chelios was arguably a better all around player than Leetch, but he was 6 years older. He wound up having an exceptionally long career, but not as many prime years left as Leetch. Keenan obviously didn't care about that as he knew he was not in it for the long haul with the Rangers.

I don't think I'm the only one here who has read Meisel's book on the 93-94 and 94-95 Rangers. I don't remember a mention of Leetch for Chelios from Meisel--it was Leetch for Grimson via Neil Smith retailing that little nugget to Meisel. That's where Barry got it from and he just reported it in his book. Now maybe Smith just wanted to make Keenan look like an idiot--these guys were grinding axes with each other but it's a reach that the Rangers would have talked Chicago into trading Chelios for Leetch--Chelios was more of a known quantity at that point in time.

The critique that Keenan made to Leetch in front of the team was 'You're no Chris Chelios'. And Keenan didn't like Leetch at first--he perceived him as soft and he had a similar distaste for others he perceived as soft such as Gartner, Amonte, James Patrick and Turcotte. All those guys were out the door before the season was over. In context it's understandable if you look at the kind of NHL teams that Keenan had previously coached.

 

[trilobyte]

Short answer is him and Smith fought and had a power struggle. He used a technicality to opt out of his contract (bonus money not received by a date). Smith never wanted to hire him in the first place. Stanley Jaffe did. Google it and you'll find tons of information.

I remember how shocked I was when that brouhaha started up. At the time, I had a rather Pollyanna view of sports and the whole one-for-all-and-all-for-one mantra, so it was a cold slap in the face for me, one I needed to see how things really are. In a sideways fashion, it got me to look further into some of the other personality clashes that shaped some other Rangers moves over the years, e.g. Giacoman trade

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

I remember how shocked I was when that brouhaha started up. At the time, I had a rather Pollyanna view of sports and the whole one-for-all-and-all-for-one mantra, so it was a cold slap in the face for me, one I needed to see how things really are. In a sideways fashion, it got me to look further into some of the other personality clashes that shaped some other Rangers moves over the years, e.g. Giacoman trade

Even though I was really young when Billy Martin was fired in 1988 (I think it was the 4th or 5th time? lol) that really hardened me to players or management or both potentially not getting along. I wasn't born during the late 70s Bronx Zoo days but I feel that would probably harden a lot of fans and teach them to expect the unexpected.

 

[True Blue]

We can all slam him as much as we want (and deservedly so), but it remains that he is the only coach in essentially 80 years to guide the NYR to a Cup. Yeah, I myself have said "were it not for Leetch morphing into Orr, Messier's leadership, Richter's acrobatics", but his name is forever associated with one of the greatest sports moments this country has seen. The slaying of the 1940 dragon was THAT momentous. The NHL took over the entire nation.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

We can all slam him as much as we want (and deservedly so), but it remains that he is the only coach in essentially 80 years to guide the NYR to a Cup. Yeah, I myself have said "were it not for Leetch morphing into Orr, Messier's leadership, Richter's acrobatics", but his name is forever associated with one of the greatest sports moments this country has seen. The slaying of the 1940 dragon was THAT momentous. The NHL took over the entire nation.

I have no issues with Keenan. He did his job. At the time it was very upsetting he moved on, but it's fine, by that point he already had the reputation as someone who wouldn't stay long with an organization.