NCAA: Michigan spying scandal / Harbaugh accepts remaining suspension

[spintheblackcircle]

The Buckeyes lost an undefeated season because of some tattoos on players who no longer played there

 

[John Price]

All we hear about is how these college coaches control everything that goes on at their programs and hate anything that changes up their plans/control. Except in a a case like this when the pathetic Michigan apologists want to pretend that a nutcase like Harbaugh gives his employees free reign to do what they want.

I doubt Harbaugh had any role in planning this and there is a good chance he didn't even know about it but like Mike Lombardi says in regards to coaching "You are either coaching it or allowing it to happen" and as mentioned above if you didn't know, you should have known.

Just like the stupid suspension he got earlier in the year this should have been an easy case of saying "oops the program screwed up we will do a better job in the future of monitoring these things" but because Harbaugh is a such a prick and Michigan is so entitled they try to make it out like they did nothing wrong and they are somehow the victim. It is their unwillingness to admit the clear wrongdoing that made what should have been two small incidents into much bigger issues.

It is too bad the 3 games are pretty meaningless in terms of a actual punishment as the team and Harbaugh especially deserve more for how awfully they have handled this. Oh well when they get shit kicked again in the play-offs and win nothing their loser fans can try and blame this as the reason rather than acknowledging that as usual they aren't close to good enough.

They are the victim of an unfair witch hunt. never been an investigation done this fast. in fact the letter says it's not disciplining Harbaugh because of any links (they couldn't find any)

 

[John Price]

Big Ten Suspends Harbaugh Through OSU, Michigan to Seek Restraining Order | mgoblog

They waited until 3:50 PM (ESPN got a 30-minute advance), on the court holiday, on the Friday before the thus-far biggest game of the season. But the Big Ten is indeed going through with its plan to suspend Harbaugh, at least from the sideline, through the Ohio State game. Sources: The Big Ten...

mgoblog.com

The letter includes some surprisingly recursive arguments:

• It is unsafe for the players: "if you know what play your opponent is running, then you also know where your opponents' players will be on the field."
• Signs are permanent: "Numerous coaches have informed me that signs and signals cannot be quickly or easily changed, and I find those statements credible."
• It's okay if they have your signs though: "The Conference has not received any information that any other members schools engaged in impermissible advance in-person scouting."
• Who needs evidence? "We impose this disciplinary action even though the Conference has not yet received any information indicating that Head Football Coach Harbaugh was aware of the impermissible nature of the sign-stealing scheme.

The "will be allowed to coach during the week" rider is interesting. Ohio State used this method to sorta-suspend Urban Meyer for enabling his staffer's spousal abuse in 2018, and Michigan did the same earlier this year for Harbaugh enabling his staffers' meal expense abuse. It's possible the Big Ten hoped Michigan would see this for a fig leaf and accept the punishment.

They will not:

 

[GKJ]

I agree the tattoo stuff was ridiculous and the punishment didn't warrant the crime, especially with what was going on at the time in the SEC.

But why would that make Ryan Day be so active in pushing these accusations and severe punishment? He was not at OSU when it happened, and I don't think there is a single person involved in the UM football program who was employed then, and (correct me if I'm wrong) but I don't believe UM was ever involved in ratting out OSU when that happened.

Mandel said it best in his article today on The Athletic, the B10 risks now being turned into what the SEC was 15-20 years ago when everyone was on probation because everyone kept reporting other schools and accusing other schools of cheating. MAD worked out perfectly in the Cold War, and it worked out well in the B10 for awhile, but now that the bombs have been deployed there is no turning back. I hate that UM has to go down this path and air peoples dirty laundry. Maybe I am biased, but IMO the B10 has given them no choice with the actions being taken in response to this and the lack of action taken with other things, either lay the hammer down on everyone or slap everyone on the wrist.

And just the smug "our **** don't stink" attitude from other members of the conference. Quotes like "we are worried about the safety of the players" when the news broke, we now find out Rutgers and OSU (the likely culprits) are sharing Michigan's signs with Purdue before the B10 championship game, yeah they really care about the safety of the players.

This could have been resolved with a simple phone call demanding that Stallions be fired and UM being given some kind of minor penalty, and upon being told by UM that "others are doing it to us" a statement released from B10 headquarters warning teams to cease any activity that involves stealing and/or sharing other teams signs and any future actions will result in more serious penalties. This has been totally inept leadership from Petitti, one that could have serious ramifications with the conference's reputation as well as the TV payouts from Fox.

Just absolutely comical that this is going to end up in the courts.

 

[Herby]

I was coming here to share more stuff. But yeah, this is not surprising to me, I said this here a couple of days ago. This is just the beginning of what is likely to be a long process that plays out in court.

This is first bomb being dropped in what is very likely going to be a massive war that is going to make Michigan and a couple of other teams look really bad, but since our reputation is already taking a massive hit we will bring others down with us. I didn't have to end like this, but here we are.

I was just sent this and came here to post this.

I had to pull 2 paragraphs because while this is a small forum with only a few viewers I don't want to name or make it easier to identify who I am talking about. But I was also told it's now ok to say all this stuff to people because "it's all going to come out sooner than later anyways", as your tweet indicates.

But oh boy, get your popcorn ready.

--------------

Hi Gentleman,

Grab a snack or a seat on the shitter, this might be a long read.

Over the next year and a half, we're going to reach the proverbial line in the sand with Michigan and it’s continued run in a Tony Pertitti led B10, either Tony P leaves, or we're out. The relationship is pretty much beyond repair. If others in the conference choose to keep Petitti, Michigan will use legal avenues in an attempt a move to the ACC or SEC for the 2027 or 2028 season, which is likely the earliest they could feasibly do it. Any doubts on pursuing this path should Tony P stay on are out the window with what he did to our boys today. Most in the AD have been supportive of this for the past week, and now it’s getting a thumbs up from higher-ups and the big donors, not just to the AD but across the whole university. Our big guns both in admin and money donations aren't laying down for this, not with what they know other teams did in regards to obtaining and sharing our signs amongst themselves. Nobody thinks what CS did was ok and doesn’t deserve punishment, but this is excessive and over the top without due process, especially with what has come out and is going to continue to come out about other schools in the conference doing the same thing as well as other violations that will now be brought to light. And our lawyers don’t expect that bringing up “whataboutism” as Tony P did in the meeting in Ann Arbor last week when the Ohio State,Rutgers and Purdue sign-stealing and collusion FACTS were presented to him is going to cut it when/if this ends up in court with UM trying to leave on the grounds that the collusion by those schools, as well as the actions of Tony P voided any contractual obligations UM has to the B10.

The ACC seems to be the admin's likely choice, but the SEC's cash and football pedigree is appealing as well, but most folks agree the ACC fits us better culturally and academically. Word is, the Irish might be on the brink of deciding to join a conference because of scheduling headaches and the new playoff setup. Jumping to the ACC, with the extra money Michigan brings in and Michigan being a regional and historical rival, could be what it takes to make that happen. The USC game stays on the calendar as an OOC game, and the Stanford game becomes a regular conference showdown, both these things were pretty big deals for the Irish.

As you might have been able to tell from following this closely, the new P12 schools coming in are playing it quiet, and that is not a coincidence. They're worried that what comes of this and how it might slash the TV money they were counting on when they joined the B10. Some ADs from those schools, plus some smaller B10 members without huge budgets, tried to get Fox to step in and smooth things over. Fox tried to work out a compromise, like pushing things past tomorrow and just having a one-game suspension against Maryland. But both sides shot it down - Michigan wanted no penalties till after the season, and the suspension crowd, led by Gene Smith of OSU wouldn't settle for anything less than a season-long suspension for Harbaugh, plus any penalties levied the NCAA.

Players had been talking this week about refusing to hit the field for the noon kickoff tomorrow to make a statement against the B10. They still plan to play, but figure Tony P wouldn't have the guts to call it a forfeit if they delayed taking the field, maybe protested by waiting until 1 or 2 pm. They think Fox would lose it and lose millions from advertiser refunds. Plus, they figured PSU would be pretty ticked off because a forfeit would kill their playoff chances. A Michigan forfeit followed with a win over #1 OSU, on the other hand, would still likely land us in the playoffs. All these scenarios were thought through but it doesn't seem likely now, though, because it'd just stir up unnecessary drama and tick off Fox, who's been very fair behind the scenes, trying to find a reasonable solution to prevent one of the two cash cows from leaving the conference Fox has a ton invested in.

In the more immediate future,, folks are hoping the team handles business in the next few weeks. The idea is that in Indy, either the team and coaches put Tony P on blast on the stage on national TV, or, more likely, they skip the post-game stage celebration where he hands out the B10 trophy and just head back to the locker room. Michigan has no interest in parading around a conference trophy from a conference that is acting in the way the B10 is. It's a ways off, and we've got some tough opponents, but mark my words, if we run the table, something funny is going happen in Indy.

With what I know now about the next 17 hours, the lawyers are feeling good about our chances in court tonight, but you know how lawyers are, always optimistic. Get ready though, because it’s gloves off, and the war is on, there isn't any turning back now. Expect some bombshells to be gradually leaked leading up the the game on the 25th because Ohio State and what they have done and continue to do will no longer be handled with kid gloves.. And be warned, there might be some counter moves from Columbus and other places that won't paint us in the best light either. College football's a messy, cutthroat world, even in the prestigious world of the Leaders and Legends of the B10.

Go Blue
-----------------------------------


This makes me really sad, because I love the B10. The the history, the culture, the midwest college towns, the rivalries, the c. That is why I personally just find it amazing that those at OSU were the most vocal and gung-ho for drastic and major penalties knowing that it could lead to the real possibility of not only their own dirty laundry being aired but more importantly the real chance that this does lead to UM leaving the conference. As much hatred as there is between UM and OSU I am surprised that they would push for this knowing that it could put an end to the best rivalry in sports, other than rare years where the teams would play in the CFP.

I would miss playing OSU, and even playing ND every year if that were a domino that comes out of this would not make up for it. But I am in agreement with much of our administration, I believe the actions of Tony P today and how he acted last week in Ann Arbor don't really leave us much choice.

I would love to be a fly in the wall at Fox Sports right now too. Apparently they were more vocal than has been reported in trying to find a resolution to this, and who can blame them. This very well could result in them losing the biggest college game (as far as annual viewers) that is played every year. There are no yearly rivalries in the B10 that will approach the value of this one, the closest they could get would be a year that USC and Ohio St are both very good and are on each others schedule.

 

[MM917]

They are the victim of an unfair witch hunt. never been an investigation done this fast. in fact the letter says it's not disciplining Harbaugh because of any links (they couldn't find any)

Witch hunt?? LOL

Do they even deny what happened? I can't imagine even the most homer MIchigan fan is going to deny that something happened against the rules. This isn't a witch hunt we all know rules were broken.

Maybe it was so fast because as usual with Harbaugh the rules were broken so obviously and stupidly.

 

[MM917]

LOL

Out to where?

The ACC and a league in which the biggest teams are looking at ways through the courts or in massive pay-outs so they can get out? Michigan wants to take that big of a pay cut out of spite for a justifiable penalty?

Maybe the SEC to be the 5th or 6th at best program there and take away any chance of competing for a NC, Even if their current NC challenges are all based on hope not actual reality even the hope goes away with a move to the SEC.

 

[Troy McClure]

in fact the letter says it's not disciplining Harbaugh because of any links (they couldn't find any)

You have invented this standard. Harbaugh being linked to the program cheating isn’t a requirement to the program being punished for cheating.

 

[John Price]

 

[Filthy Dangles]

 

[DaaaaB's]

They get caught cheating and now they want to leave. What a bunch of crybabies lol. It's been fun seeing John Price have a meltdown over this though.

 

[MM917]

Getting the players to buy into the victim mentality is pathetic as well.

Aren't they supposed to be creating "Michigan men" or whatever BS they tell themselves to justify their losing. Is a Michigan man someone who cries and whines after getting caught cheating? Someone who tries to bully others rather than take responsibility? Real quality individuals they are creating there.

 

[GKJ]

I was coming here to share more stuff. But yeah, this is not surprising to me, I said this here a couple of days ago. This is just the beginning of what is likely to be a long process that plays out in court.

This is first bomb being dropped in what is very likely going to be a massive war that is going to make Michigan and a couple of other teams look really bad, but since our reputation is already taking a massive hit we will bring others down with us. I didn't have to end like this, but here we are.

I was just sent this and came here to post this.

I had to pull 2 paragraphs because while this is a small forum with only a few viewers I don't want to name or make it easier to identify who I am talking about. But I was also told it's now ok to say all this stuff to people because "it's all going to come out sooner than later anyways", as your tweet indicates.

But oh boy, get your popcorn ready.

--------------

Hi Gentleman,

Grab a snack or a seat on the shitter, this might be a long read.

Over the next year and a half, we're going to reach the proverbial line in the sand with Michigan and it’s continued run in a Tony Pertitti led B10, either Tony P leaves, or we're out. The relationship is pretty much beyond repair. If others in the conference choose to keep Petitti, Michigan will use legal avenues in an attempt a move to the ACC or SEC for the 2027 or 2028 season, which is likely the earliest they could feasibly do it. Any doubts on pursuing this path should Tony P stay on are out the window with what he did to our boys today. Most in the AD have been supportive of this for the past week, and now it’s getting a thumbs up from higher-ups and the big donors, not just to the AD but across the whole university. Our big guns both in admin and money donations aren't laying down for this, not with what they know other teams did in regards to obtaining and sharing our signs amongst themselves. Nobody thinks what CS did was ok and doesn’t deserve punishment, but this is excessive and over the top without due process, especially with what has come out and is going to continue to come out about other schools in the conference doing the same thing as well as other violations that will now be brought to light. And our lawyers don’t expect that bringing up “whataboutism” as Tony P did in the meeting in Ann Arbor last week when the Ohio State,Rutgers and Purdue sign-stealing and collusion FACTS were presented to him is going to cut it when/if this ends up in court with UM trying to leave on the grounds that the collusion by those schools, as well as the actions of Tony P voided any contractual obligations UM has to the B10.

The ACC seems to be the admin's likely choice, but the SEC's cash and football pedigree is appealing as well, but most folks agree the ACC fits us better culturally and academically. Word is, the Irish might be on the brink of deciding to join a conference because of scheduling headaches and the new playoff setup. Jumping to the ACC, with the extra money Michigan brings in and Michigan being a regional and historical rival, could be what it takes to make that happen. The USC game stays on the calendar as an OOC game, and the Stanford game becomes a regular conference showdown, both these things were pretty big deals for the Irish.

As you might have been able to tell from following this closely, the new P12 schools coming in are playing it quiet, and that is not a coincidence. They're worried that what comes of this and how it might slash the TV money they were counting on when they joined the B10. Some ADs from those schools, plus some smaller B10 members without huge budgets, tried to get Fox to step in and smooth things over. Fox tried to work out a compromise, like pushing things past tomorrow and just having a one-game suspension against Maryland. But both sides shot it down - Michigan wanted no penalties till after the season, and the suspension crowd, led by Gene Smith of OSU wouldn't settle for anything less than a season-long suspension for Harbaugh, plus any penalties levied the NCAA.

Players had been talking this week about refusing to hit the field for the noon kickoff tomorrow to make a statement against the B10. They still plan to play, but figure Tony P wouldn't have the guts to call it a forfeit if they delayed taking the field, maybe protested by waiting until 1 or 2 pm. They think Fox would lose it and lose millions from advertiser refunds. Plus, they figured PSU would be pretty ticked off because a forfeit would kill their playoff chances. A Michigan forfeit followed with a win over #1 OSU, on the other hand, would still likely land us in the playoffs. All these scenarios were thought through but it doesn't seem likely now, though, because it'd just stir up unnecessary drama and tick off Fox, who's been very fair behind the scenes, trying to find a reasonable solution to prevent one of the two cash cows from leaving the conference Fox has a ton invested in.

In the more immediate future,, folks are hoping the team handles business in the next few weeks. The idea is that in Indy, either the team and coaches put Tony P on blast on the stage on national TV, or, more likely, they skip the post-game stage celebration where he hands out the B10 trophy and just head back to the locker room. Michigan has no interest in parading around a conference trophy from a conference that is acting in the way the B10 is. It's a ways off, and we've got some tough opponents, but mark my words, if we run the table, something funny is going happen in Indy.

With what I know now about the next 17 hours, the lawyers are feeling good about our chances in court tonight, but you know how lawyers are, always optimistic. Get ready though, because it’s gloves off, and the war is on, there isn't any turning back now. Expect some bombshells to be gradually leaked leading up the the game on the 25th because Ohio State and what they have done and continue to do will no longer be handled with kid gloves.. And be warned, there might be some counter moves from Columbus and other places that won't paint us in the best light either. College football's a messy, cutthroat world, even in the prestigious world of the Leaders and Legends of the B10.

Go Blue
-----------------------------------


This makes me really sad, because I love the B10. The the history, the culture, the midwest college towns, the rivalries, the c. That is why I personally just find it amazing that those at OSU were the most vocal and gung-ho for drastic and major penalties knowing that it could lead to the real possibility of not only their own dirty laundry being aired but more importantly the real chance that this does lead to UM leaving the conference. As much hatred as there is between UM and OSU I am surprised that they would push for this knowing that it could put an end to the best rivalry in sports, other than rare years where the teams would play in the CFP.

I would miss playing OSU, and even playing ND every year if that were a domino that comes out of this would not make up for it. But I am in agreement with much of our administration, I believe the actions of Tony P today and how he acted last week in Ann Arbor don't really leave us much choice.

I would love to be a fly in the wall at Fox Sports right now too. Apparently they were more vocal than has been reported in trying to find a resolution to this, and who can blame them. This very well could result in them losing the biggest college game (as far as annual viewers) that is played every year. There are no yearly rivalries in the B10 that will approach the value of this one, the closest they could get would be a year that USC and Ohio St are both very good and are on each others schedule.

I would say that the SEC is a better football fit because it seems the ACC’s future seems murky with teams looking to leave, but if Michigan comes in, that changes the game significantly. It would be quite the story if this is what precipitates the fall of the dismantling of the Big Ten that some feel is inevitable. The thing about Fox losing the Michigan/OSU is that Michigan loses that too

 

[Herby]

LOL

Out to where?

The ACC and a league in which the biggest teams are looking at ways through the courts or in massive pay-outs so they can get out? Michigan wants to take that big of a pay cut out of spite for a justifiable penalty?

Maybe the SEC to be the 5th or 6th at best program there and take away any chance of competing for a NC, Even if their current NC challenges are all based on hope not actual reality even the hope goes away with a move to the SEC.

Michigan would be the 5th or 6th best **at-best** program in the SEC?
Michigan would never be able contend for the playoff in the SEC?

If the 12 team CFP were in place in 21, 22, 23 and Michigan had been an SEC team the last 3 they'd have made the playoff each of those seasons. Come on, if the 12 team playoff were in place right now Ole Miss would be in with Tenn and Missouri on the fringe. Last year Tenn would have been in, but UM has no chance?

 

[GKJ]

The SEC isn’t the big scary monster it was 10 years ago, Michigan would be perfectly fine there.

 

[John Price]

 

[LT]

Did the Big Ten wait until Harbaugh left the state of Michigan to drop their news?

 

[MM917]

Michigan would be the 5th or 6th best **at-best** program in the SEC?
Michigan would never be able contend for the playoff in the SEC?

If the 12 team CFP were in place in 21, 22, 23 and Michigan had been an SEC team the last 3 they'd have made the playoff each of those seasons. Come on, if the 12 team playoff were in place right now Ole Miss would be in with Tenn and Missouri on the fringe. Last year Tenn would have been in, but UM has no chance?

Georgia, Alabama, LSU, Texas all better than Michigan. Oklahoma and Texas A and M depending on how they are run could be as well.

Making the 12 team play-off doesn’t mean you have a chance at the NC. Ole Miss, Tennessee would have zero chance at winning the NC just like Michigan. But maybe that isn’t their goal anymore.

 

[MM917]

The SEC isn’t the big scary monster it was 10 years ago, Michigan would be perfectly fine there.

How many titles from different teams has the non-scary SEC won since the last Michigan title?

 

[Herby]

The Buckeyes lost an undefeated season because of some tattoos on players who no longer played there

And it was a load of shit.

But I don't really remember anyone from UM being the most vocal of the group for that to happen? Maybe they were, I don't know, but me personally I thought it was ridiculous what happened (especially with the SEC goings on at the time, as I mentioned) and I consider that those OSU wins to not be vacated. So why is Gene Smith the most vocal here calling for season long suspensions before the NCAA even comes close to finishing it's investigation. It sure seems like Gene is just looking out for what is best for himself, which is not having Harbaugh on the sideline.

This notion being pushed by some in Columbus (not saying it's you doing) about the results of the last two years being about stolen signs is nothing more than a ridiculous excuse to cover for the heat that is on Ryan Day. OSU did not lose the last two years because Michigan had their signals, we will already know both teams had each others signals, at least for last years game.

Do you really think at the end of the day it's going to be a better look for OSU/Rutgers/Purdue and the entire B10's reputation as a whole when everyone knows

1. Connor Stallions stole signs from in-person scouting to the benefit of Michigan.
2. Greg Schiano (or someone on his staff) gave UM's signals to Ryan Day (or someone on his staff) to use in the 2022 game, who then proceeded to give those signals to Purdue in the 2022 B10 championship game.

I mean, aren't both things showing a total lack of sportsmanship, and if we are going suspend one man on a "sportsmanship" issue that all should be?

And yes, I get it, it's technically "legal" (in the eyes of the NCAA) for coaches to collude and give signs to each other. Although it's more of a legal gray area to be honest. And can't one reasonably argue that would also fall into the lack of sportsmanship thing that the B10 is using here? Remember it's the vague B10 sportsmanship thing that Harbaugh is being suspended for, not proof of violation of NCAA rules (that is the thing UM's attorneys argued when he came to town about what happened with OSU/Rutgers/Purdue and were met with whataboutism from the commish)

Pertitti could have very easily brushed all this under the table, insisted Michigan fire Stallions and tell all coaches in the conference that any future in-person scouting or colluding to share other teams signals will be met with harsher penalties. This is what Greg Sankey would have done and it would have been a minor speed bump for the entire conference. Instead we have this, where a lot of dirty laundry about everybody is going to be aired, and one of the B10's alpha programs is now getting the wheels in motion to leave the conference which will cost it eight figures in TV money.

It's inept leadership. It makes Kevin Warren's handling of the Covid season look like Winston Churchill during the Blitz. Not even Larry Scott handled any situations this poorly.

 

[MM917]

The inept leadership is 100% coming from Michigan. They could have admitted wrong doing, take responsibility for their employee and worked with the Big Ten and this would have all been a minor speed bump.

Instead they have been defiant, entitled babies trying to make themselves out to be the victims.

 

[Herby]

I would say that the SEC is a better football fit because it seems the ACC’s future seems murky with teams looking to leave, but if Michigan comes in, that changes the game significantly. It would be quite the story if this is what precipitates the fall of the dismantling of the Big Ten that some feel is inevitable. The thing about Fox losing the Michigan/OSU is that Michigan loses that too

It could also be a situation where the ACC just dies and a new conference is formed with UM, Notre Dame and those top teams from that conference.

Since it's now all how many teams you can have who might be Top 12 in any given year + brand/market/money/basketball.

Michigan, FSU, Clemson, Notre Dame, Miami does match-up quite well with the B10 of OSU, USC, Oregon, Penn St and Washington.

I just don't see Michigan being an SEC fit, unless it got to the point where it was just 2 conferences like the AFC and NFC and you had to join one, which could easily end up being the case.

 

[MM917]

Or they could not be babies because they are being lightly slapped in the wrist for clearly cheating and stay in the better conference that makes way more sense for them.

 

[LT]

Texas A and M depending on how they are run could be

We've been saying this for twelve years now, I don't think you need to worry about A&M for quite awhile

 

[MM917]

We've been saying this for twelve years now, I don't think you need to worry about A&M for quite awhile

Yes that is why I said depending. They have the resources and shown the recruiting ability that if they hired the right coach they could, if they continue down the Jimbo and replace him with another dud they will lag in mediocrity.