Confirmed with Link: Meme/Like Thread 6 - A new season on the horizon

Unsustainable

Seth Jarvis has Big Kahunas
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GTr7yiKXwAApsEz.jpg
 

bleedgreen

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Total cop-out...but then so was the entire plot of Force Awakens which was just the original Star Wars with worse character development. As much as the Last Jedi gets hate, at least they kind of tried some different things with it
Like teaching someone how to be a Jedi in like 4 minutes.

Luke: focus.
Rey: like this?
Luke: almost. Try harder.
Rey: oh I’ve got it.
 

WreckingCrew

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Like teaching someone how to be a Jedi in like 4 minutes.

Luke: focus.
Rey: like this?
Luke: almost. Try harder.
Rey: oh I’ve got it.
Yea, Rey being instantly good at force use with no training is why a lot of people didn't like her character (not because everyone is a misogynist...though some are I'm sure). Like resisting mind-reading I'll give a pass bc force-sensitives can often use the force "accidentally" just out of a desperation moment...but then using "mind tricks" right after and force-grabbing a light-saber when you've never done it before? Or force healing? Seems like an advanced trick she just did by wishing hard
 

bleedgreen

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Yea, Rey being instantly good at force use with no training is why a lot of people didn't like her character (not because everyone is a misogynist...though some are I'm sure). Like resisting mind-reading I'll give a pass bc force-sensitives can often use the force "accidentally" just out of a desperation moment...but then using "mind tricks" right after and force-grabbing a light-saber when you've never done it before? Or force healing? Seems like an advanced trick she just did by wishing hard
If there was any precedent for it being that way I would’ve been fine with it. They spent from Luke’s first ride on the Falcon through all of Empire developing Luke’s skills with him being directly taught for a notable part of it - even if it was Ben talking to him from beyond the grave. Rey just does it. I struggle with it because to be honest I hate the whole anti woke, anti metoo whatever sentiment out there that just bags on any non white male character being the star, and I really liked Rey. Those sentiments are repulsive to me, and I thought Rey was outstanding overall. It’s really just this aspect which is completely on the people who made the films. It was as if because she’s a bad ass female she didn’t have to have any development in this arena. Don’t get me started on Cpt Marvel.

Politically I’m liberal and I feel like a complete toad saying this about female characters in action settings as I’m supposed to be blindly supportive, but the movie nerd in me feels like this sort of thing would’ve been pretty highly criticized at any point in other movies of this ilk regardless of sex or color by other movie nerds.

Spend the extra time and show them develop these game changing attributes.

Daenerys Targaryen locking herself in that dome with all the Khals and setting fire to it….and to everything inside and emerging from the inferno unscathed with thousands dropping to their knees in worship of her ultimate badassness was an amazing screen moment. We knew she could do it because they had developed that. No male character or dragon had to save her. Set the world on fire and when it’s nothing but ash that woman would be standing on top of the pile.
 

WreckingCrew

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Feb 4, 2015
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If there was any precedent for it being that way I would’ve been fine with it. They spent from Luke’s first ride on the Falcon through all of Empire developing Luke’s skills with him being directly taught for a notable part of it - even if it was Ben talking to him from beyond the grave. Rey just does it. I struggle with it because to be honest I hate the whole anti woke, anti metoo whatever sentiment out there that just bags on any non white male character being the star, and I really liked Rey. Those sentiments are repulsive to me, and I thought Rey was outstanding overall. It’s really just this aspect which is completely on the people who made the films. It was as if because she’s a bad ass female she didn’t have to have any development in this arena. Don’t get me started on Cpt Marvel.

Politically I’m liberal and I feel like a complete toad saying this about female characters in action settings as I’m supposed to be blindly supportive, but the movie nerd in me feels like this sort of thing would’ve been pretty highly criticized at any point in other movies of this ilk regardless of sex or color by other movie nerds.

Spend the extra time and show them develop these game changing attributes.

Daenerys Targaryen locking herself in that dome with all the Khals and setting fire to it….and to everything inside and emerging from the inferno unscathed with thousands dropping to their knees in worship of her ultimate badassness was an amazing screen moment. We knew she could do it because they had developed that. No male character or dragon had to save her. Set the world on fire and when it’s nothing but ash that woman would be standing on top of the pile.
I think that hit's the nail-on-the-head for where a lot of the actual dislike comes from, this recent Hollywood movement where all the female hero characters have to be flawless and powerful and good WITHOUT any training or struggles...or by dumbing down or putting down any male counterparts. She-Hulk, Rey, Cpt Marvel are the rule these days rather than the exception so the criticism gets panned as "misogyny" instead of shitty writing. It's the "kid gloves" treatment that they want everyone to blindly accept because of some sort of message it's tied to (like if you've ever watched any awful Christian movies that people fawn over that are objectively terrible if it weren't for people liking "the message"). Wonder Woman on the other hand was loved because she had training, struggles, and development. GOT in general did a great job with their strong female characters not being perfect, struggling, growing, and becoming badasses. Ellen Ripley and Leia are other great examples. Most people aren't scared of strong female characters (there will always be a few though), just not when they're so forced & contrived (Cpt Marvel), or raised up at the cost of misandry (She-Hulk, Black Widow movie).
 
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LakeLivin

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I think that hit's the nail-on-the-head for where a lot of the actual dislike comes from, this recent Hollywood movement where all the female hero characters have to be flawless and powerful and good WITHOUT any training or struggles...or by dumbing down or putting down any male counterparts. She-Hulk, Rey, Cpt Marvel are the rule these days rather than the exception so the criticism gets panned as "misogyny" instead of shitty writing. It's the "kid gloves" treatment that they want everyone to blindly accept because of some sort of message it's tied to (like if you've ever watched any awful Christian movies that people fawn over that are objectively terrible if it weren't for people liking "the message"). Wonder Woman on the other hand was loved because she had training, struggles, and development. GOT in general did a great job with their strong female characters not being perfect, struggling, growing, and becoming badasses. Ellen Ripley and Leia are other great examples. Most people aren't scared of strong female characters (there will always be a few though), just not when they're so forced & contrived (Cpt Marvel), or raised up at the cost of misandry (She-Hulk, Black Widow movie).

I've watched half an episode of the tv show The Equalizer. Unarmed middle aged female protagonist Queen Latifah was attacked in a public bathroom by two young male trained assassins with knives. She disarmed and disabled both. LOL!

Although that does fit the network tv profile. I'm having a hard time coming up with the last network tv drama that was worth watching.
 

Bub

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I've watched half an episode of the tv show The Equalizer. Unarmed middle aged female protagonist Queen Latifah was attacked in a public bathroom by two young male trained assassins with knives. She disarmed and disabled both. LOL!

Although that does fit the network tv profile. I'm having a hard time coming up with the last network tv drama that was worth watching.

The only movie/tv show I can think of off the top of my head that had a female protagonist who had to fight in ways to overcome the strength/weight disparities with the dudes who wanted to kill her, was the movie "Haywire." And that started Gina Carano, who knows a little bit about fighting. (This does not include superheroines, btw.)
 

WreckingCrew

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Feb 4, 2015
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The only movie/tv show I can think of off the top of my head that had a female protagonist who had to fight in ways to overcome the strength/weight disparities with the dudes who wanted to kill her, was the movie "Haywire." And that started Gina Carano, who knows a little bit about fighting. (This does not include superheroines, btw.)
Lagertha on Vikings is a fantastic character! Granted she starts off the show as already a pretty well-established shield-maiden, but it's also known that it's because of years of training, and her character continues to grow and change throughout the series...she's not handed anything and fights for everything.
 

Lempo

Recovering Future Considerations Truther
Feb 23, 2014
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I don't remember us male chauvinists having much problem with Buffy or Xena back in the day. Or Tasha Yar or Ivanova. Or the comicbook versions of She-Hulk or Carol Danvers (the latter obviously being worth an essay to get into it).
 

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