Player Discussion McDavid

[MessierThanThou]

So we had “bad depth” because the players we acquired last offseason didn’t perform? That makes little sense
Perry had a big playoffs
Brown was great until he got banged up
Kapanen score a huge goal
Nuge was great in the Dallas series

We were 2 wins away from winning it all and we were missing our best winger, Nuge was half a player and our best Dman was awful

Honestly, I'd consider Brown being out as well. He was only doing cardio post-concussion after being a legit threat in three rounds.

Now take away two of Florida's top wingers, hell, even Lundell and Luosterainen, and see how closer the series would be.

Oh, and have the refs not clearly be in Florida's f***ing pockets. That would've helped too.

We were closer than people want to believe.

 

[Drivesaitl]

So we had “bad depth” because the players we acquired last offseason didn’t perform? That makes little sense
Perry had a big playoffs
Brown was great until he got banged up
Kapanen score a huge goal
Nuge was great in the Dallas series

We were 2 wins away from winning it all and we were missing our best winger, Nuge was half a player and our best Dman was awful

Brown was good for around the first 7 games. Never great lol.

Perry I acknowledged.

 

[Drivesaitl]

It worked well enough to get us into the finals without really breaking a sweat.

As for the second point, that's how a lot of contending teams roll though we were certainly older than a lot but again: that was a conscious decision.



Uh, we've been a contender for years my dude. And I don't see how much more work there is this year than last.


That's not true. Teams that make the Cup tend to retain their core and shed spare parts and replace them. That's what Florida did as they moved on from guys like OEL, Tarasenko, Montour, Okposo, Stolarz etc. No one stands pat.

We got into the finals breaking and milking every player that got us there. As per usual the small core. with the Vegas and Dallas were playing a stiff wind could knock them over. Both of those clubs gave up. Vegas blew the series in game 1 lol. Dallas waited till game 2. None of the top players of either team brought it against us. They were complete ghosts. Part of that is our defending, yes, part of it is those teams lacking ANYBODY that was scoring. The Only one Robertson, and only half way into the series. No team beats you with whole squads being snakebit. Both those teams need to make changes as well.

That said I've also stated being one of only 2 teams out of 32 standing is something. I stated that largely to cheer people up. But in the offseason its time for more circumspection.

What concerns me the most is that the org went full tilt on a vet, older player lineup specifically to ride a one shot chance, and ultimately they came up short and VASTLY cost futures. We mortgaged the future, lost several players and prospects for a one shot that get a cup.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The Oilers bottom six depth was fantastic this postseason. Where they fell short was depth in the top six. They didn't have enough to withstand Hyman going out and Nuge being injured. That's what killed them.

Once they had to move Perry and Kapanen into the top six, they were hooped. But those players played very well when everyone was in their correct slots. Arvidsson and Skinner not panning out as impact top six wingers got them in the end, but I do think they withstand it (or at least give the Panthers a better run) if Hyman and Nuge don't get hurt.

Saying that this is the worst forward depth in years is crazy. Before last year we would regularly have 7-8 forwards taking a regular shift in big games. This year we had four lines rolling for three rounds, right up until Hyman went out.

Our 5th leading forward had only 30 pts in regular season. That is the absolute definition of shit forward depth production.

This continued in playoffs. OIlers had only 3 forwards produce more than 15 pts. A well put together Florida club had 9.

But yes semantically it was also disappointing that we had so many bottomsix or waiver caliber players playing topsix. We had that disaster through the loss of ONLY one forward, Hyman.

Nuge had a 47pt season. I do give him credit for elevating for awhile for playoffs but the guy is rarely valuable for over a month. Whether injury or whatever he never sustains it.

Lines rolling doesn't mean shit if most of those lines are not much. We have 8 forwards that shouldn't even be on a contending team and add very little of anything. When you have a whole bunch of Janmarks in the lineup best you can hope for is sawoff until actual players get on the ice. The org was so out of answers or diligence that they even re-upped Derek Ryan. Just because.

Its a given that all of Janmark, Brown, Ryan, ought to have been gone. You can't have guys that just play well two weeks of the whole year

 

[Jarvi]

I'm not sold on Pod because in the crunch playing against very physical team in the playoffs, in the final, he kind of disappeared. Even the hitting element wasn't completely there. He was still getting to some pucks and decent on forecheck but he was nailed in this series more than he was smoking opponents.

Nice kid, I give him credit for trying to change to be in an NHL lineup and do what he can but of note he stopped fighting at all several months ago and his physical game was also backed off by severe hits in this series. Its a mixed bag and then you have his hands which just can't be in a topsix. We probably need better.

Podkolzin had 4pts in 6 games, was our only + player besides Janmark, and had 26 hits vs Florida, highest I can find on the team besides Kane w 27. So, wrong on all accounts.

He did get hit, that happens vs Florida. He did have a couple defensive miscues, again, that will happen against a dynasty level team. No different than any other player on our roster.

Amazing that people will hold a series like that against a guy making 1m, but won't say a word about Connor scoring 1 meaningless goal and going -7 on the series, or Leon not getting a sog in the final game.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Honestly, I'd consider Brown being out as well. He was only doing cardio post-concussion after being a legit threat in three rounds.

Now take away two of Florida's top wingers, hell, even Lundell and Luosterainen, and see how closer the series would be.

Oh, and have the refs not clearly be in Florida's f***ing pockets. That would've helped too.

We were closer than people want to believe.

Connor Brown scored 4 of his goals in the first 7 games of playoffs. He got one the rest of the way. 2 of his goals being ENG anyway.

yeah he needs to be gone. You can't just have players like him and Janmark and Ryan. Not sure how the Oilers felt extending any was worthwhile. Trouble with the players is they don't bring any identity other than alleged 200ft player and Brown was shit at that too. They also don't hit. They don't add much of anything.

Oilers kind of got in love with vets. Figured that would lessen mistakes. Its arguable it worked for a bit but I think largely due to our D being so good for 3 rounds.

 

[Little Fury]

We got into the finals breaking and milking every player that got us there. As per usual the small core. with the Vegas and Dallas were playing a stiff wind could knock them over. Both of those clubs gave up. Vegas blew the series in game 1 lol. Dallas waited till game 2. None of the top players of either team brought it against us. They were complete ghosts. Part of that is our defending, yes, part of it is those teams lacking ANYBODY that was scoring. The Only one Robertson, and only half way into the series. No team beats you with whole squads being snakebit. Both those teams need to make changes as well.

They weren't scoring because we shut them down. Outside of 6 minutes in game one versus Dallas, those were the best stretch of games the Oilers played all year and you still won't give them any credit?

What concerns me the most is that the org went full tilt on a vet, older player lineup specifically to ride a one shot chance, and ultimately they came up short and VASTLY cost futures. We mortgaged the future, lost several players and prospects for a one shot that get a cup.

Yeah that's the thing with gambles: they don't always pay off. I said this team's age was a concern at the start of the season myself, but that was how they wanted to run it and it damn near worked. And let's be real, if they had made next to no changes, that would have been a different kind of gamble.

At the end of the day, the worst move was the one they didn't make, which was not even trying to fix the goaltending.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Podkolzin had 4pts in 6 games, was our only + player besides Janmark, and had 26 hits vs Florida, highest I can find on the team besides Kane w 27. So, wrong on all accounts.

He did get hit, that happens vs Florida. He did have a couple defensive miscues, again, that will happen against a dynasty level team. No different than any other player on our roster.

Amazing that people will hold a series like that against a guy making 1m, but won't say a word about Connor scoring 1 meaningless goal and going -7 on the series, or Leon not getting a sog in the final game.

2 of those pts were garbage time pts.

Sure he costs only 1M. The player doesn't fight anymore, gave that up several months ago and I suspect only brung that to try to stay in a lineup. At times this season he wasn't bringing it. He was a bust even in Vancouver so at times its hard for me to get over that.

I'm fine with retaining him but please NOT to be glued into the topsix unless we find an actual winger for Drai. Drai can't be playing with two poorly adapted forwards.

If it pleases you I'll say I'm wrong. he did bring the hits. I can admit being wrong on that. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

 

[rboomercat90]

I looked up Gulutzan and he's been with this team since KEN HITCHCOCK was coach.

Didn’t McLellan bring him in?

 

[Drivesaitl]

They weren't scoring because we shut them down. Outside of 6 minutes in game one versus Dallas, those were the best stretch of games the Oilers played all year and you still won't give them any credit?



Yeah that's the thing with gambles: they don't always pay off. I said this team's age was a concern at the start of the season myself, but that was how they wanted to run it and it damn near worked. And let's be real, if they had made next to no changes, that would have been a different kind of gamble.

At the end of the day, the worst move was the one they didn't make, which was not even trying to fix the goaltending.

I gave the D credit throughout playoffs. Said it was the best D we've had since the 80's. I don't give some of the forwards on this team credit. I don't give Stu Skinner ANY credit.

It didn't "damn near work" The more time away from that final series and looking at all elements the Oilers only led in the series 33mins. lol and Florida broke the alltime finals record (Ironically had by 1988 Oilers) having the lead 258mins.

We were behind all the time. On the scoreboard and on the ice. It was a 5 game series really that the Oilers get to 6 on an OT fluke own goal in a game 4 where they were down 3-0. As any pundit says. The story in that game was Panthers falling back. A mistake they never repeated.

The final wasn't that close this year. WE only got OTW and Florida slammed us 3 of the games. 3 of the games weren't even close and game 4 wasn't close either through most of it.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Didn’t McLellan bring him in?

Yes.

 

[Jarvi]

2 of those pts were garbage time pts.

Sure he costs only 1M. The player doesn't fight anymore, gave that up several months ago and I suspect only brung that to try to stay in a lineup. At times this season he wasn't bringing it. He was a bust even in Vancouver so at times its hard for me to get over that.

I'm fine with retaining him but please NOT to be glued into the topsix unless we find an actual winger for Drai. Drai can't be playing with two poorly adapted forwards.

If it pleases you I'll say I'm wrong. he did bring the hits. I can admit being wrong on that. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

No, they weren't. He had a 2nd period, primary assist in game 1. He had the game tying goal to come back from down 3-0, and primary assist on the OT winner in game 4. Then he had the goal with over 4 minutes left in game 6. You can argue that last one is "garbage time", but as a fan that one means a lot more to me (to not be shutout in the final game) than Davo's lone goal. And yeah, it was still down 4 with 4 to go, but there was still a slight chance the team made it interesting to finish it, and maybe in an alternate timeline that same goal is looked at as one that sparked the team to the greatest comeback in sports history. Let me dream, dammit.

I can remember pointless streaks, I don't ever remember thinking he wasn't "bringing it" throughout the season. He was one guy I felt brought it nearly every night. It's telling he is one guy who never saw the press box.

I couldn't give less of a shit about fighting tbh. I don't think Knob or the team cares too much about that either. You know when his last fight was? Dec 16th against the Panthers, he drew a penalty getting boarded and "fought" Greer. We scored on the PP to make it 4-2 midway through the 2nd and proceeded to lose 6-5 in regulation. I don't think the fight did anything for the team, and maybe knob was pissed about losing him for 5 and told him to avoid that pointless stuff.

Agreed on not gifting him the top 6. That said, I like running skilled duos with one utility/banger type. In that case, I have no problem with him getting the top 6 time if he beats out our other options for those minutes.

Good on you for admitting you were wrong.

 

[KCC]

I like what Mcdavid said in his end of the year press conference. It’s clearly to put pressure on management to figure this out this off season. Maybe he is bluffing but hey, if it gets them to bring some really solid pieces in one of which is goaltending, good. If they don’t and he wants to bolt so be it. Edm would get a massive return haul

 

[hockeyguy0022]

Mcdavid has to decide if his friendship with Darnell Nurse is worth a cup or not.

That's the choice he has to make.

Mediocre with him around, or much better chance if he's gone.

 

[ManByng]

I like what Mcdavid said in his end of the year press conference. It’s clearly to put pressure on management to figure this out this off season. Maybe he is bluffing but hey, if it gets them to bring some really solid pieces in one of which is goaltending, good. If they don’t and he wants to bolt so be it. Edm would get a massive return haul

Yes like an ultimatum hey? Build a competent team around me or I'll bolt next off season!

 

[KCC]

Yes like an ultimatum hey? Build a competent team around me or I'll bolt next off season!

Yup. Exactly what I said. He wants to make sure management is committed and going all in. No more steps back.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Yup. Exactly what I said. He wants to make sure management is committed and going all in. No more steps back.

Well that's all well and good but what about Scwartz and Stu? We can't get rid of them! Connor is just going to have to accept that they're here 4 life or else he can walk!


*Some dumbass close to the Oilers probably.

 

[Fishy McScales]

To play devil's advocate a bit here, McDavid did say the Oilers have no cap space and no prospects, no assets basically.

So it does sound like he'll want some kind of reassurances on how the heck we're gonna get over the hump.

The whole post-game comment about doing the same thing over and over could also be more than just a dig at the coach, but also at things like running it back with S tu etc.

 

[Pass the Saitl Sauce]

I don’t like it but if Mcdavid isnt signing an extension he should be traded before training camp. Def prefer he stays but you need his return to build around Drai for the next 8 years

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Mcdavid has to decide if his friendship with Darnell Nurse is worth a cup or not.

That's the choice he has to make.

Mediocre with him around, or much better chance if he's gone.

Other than a buy out how do we get rid of him?

I'm not even against a buy out with the cap going up. It would drastically help us get back to the final this upcoming season

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

I don’t like it but if Mcdavid isnt signing an extension he should be traded before training camp. Def prefer he stays but you need his return to build around Drai for the next 8 years

Drai don't have 8 solid years left..... Maybe 5

 

[Pass the Saitl Sauce]

Drai don't have 8 solid years left..... Maybe 5

If Mcdavid walks as a free agent like marner is now Drai should be traded immediately and start rebuild 3.0

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

To play devil's advocate a bit here, McDavid did say the Oilers have no cap space and no prospects, no assets basically.

So it does sound like he'll want some kind of reassurances on how the heck we're gonna get over the hump.

The whole post-game comment about doing the same thing over and over could also be more than just a dig at the coach, but also at things like running it back with S tu etc.

Clearly he wants to win BADLY and he was not happy with how the roster was constructed:

- No wingers for Leon (he asked for this last offseason and it was a Arvy and Skinner bust)
- No Broberg and Holloway (if we give up on our prospects/young players then go for it now, Trade Savoie/SOR. No point being in the middle)
- No goalie again (Stu sucks)

Clearly he is frustrated after the loss and like some of us fans he sees that the future is bleak and The window is closing unless there is major roster surgery done.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

If Mcdavid walks as a free agent like marner is now Drai should be traded immediately and start rebuild 3.0

I agree, but I'd go for it 1 last time myself.

Buy out /trade Nurse and sign Ehlers/Boeser. Deal with the cap shit later

If we don't add a top 6 winger we are dead in the water again

 

[McShogun99]

We still had some cap space from LTIRing Kane. The amount leftover could have added a right shot 4C and a depth winger. It might not have been enough to win a cup but every bit helps.