Player Discussion McDavid

[McBigYak]

Drai: We didn't win. nothing else matters, who cares?

The bolded is speculative fallacy. Counting a presumed success that has not occurred.

But its also telling because its the habit of this org to just throw spaghetti at the wall seeing if it sticks. Its almost random process with this team. If it isn't then tell me what team identity, type of team the management has been shooting for all these years.

Of course it is speculative. You are not guaranteed anything. But having numerous kicks at the can to get it done definitely increases your odds, and the org has constructed a roster that will be able to compete for the cup for many years to come.

They didn't win. They lost to a better team, a better managed team. But f*** with the commentary on here you'd think the Oilers organization was a complete dumpster fire, Buffalo Sabres like.

They've built a cup contender, and one that will be a cup contender for many years.

Unless, of course, McDavid doesn't sign, which will ultimately lead back to the main topic of this thread. If that is the case, then we blew it. But I'd be willing to bet it gets done and it gets done quickly.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Of course it is speculative. You are not guaranteed anything. But having numerous kicks at the can to get it done definitely increases your odds, and the org has constructed a roster that will be able to compete for the cup for many years to come.

They didn't win. They lost to a better team, a better managed team. But f*** with the commentary on here you'd think the Oilers organization was a complete dumpster fire, Buffalo Sabres like.

They've built a cup contender, and one that will be a cup contender for many years.

Honestly we haven't constructed a roster. I know you know this. The Oilers instead pick off whatever players are easily available and try to build that into something.

Teams that win have a clear identity of team that they want to put together. Even roster mission statements to that effect. Example that the Knights before they even existed put together a blueprint of type players they wanted to have and build on in order to get to cup. The Oilers did the same in 1979. Kings have done this, Hawks have done this, Tampa have done this.

Answer what type of team identity the Oilers want to put together. Theres never really a consensus view on this within management and we've had frequent management changes that would resemble the worst expansion franchices. Indeed could be cited that with how many different management teams and coaches we've had here that the org is basically just spinning the wheel. There is no plan with roster, where it lands, who's even in charge.

 

[Ck1]

What was the specific management success the last calendar year?

Lets make a list:

Misses: Assess we don't need a starting goalie, fail to acquire one.

Arvid, Skinner, Jones, Frederic, acquisitions.

Janmark, Brown, Henrigue, Ryan, extensions.


Hits: Walman, Klingberg. (the latter even being debatable because he couldn't play much and predictably got hurt again.

Am I missing more hits? Are we really going to include waiver wire pick ups and Emberson?

I’d say Podz was a hit and the Frederic is a wait and see at this point as he was playing injured imo
The rest agree
Edit. Skinner we will never really know going off how much play he got

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

You're conflating team results with management decisions. The Oilers got as far as they did on the backs of Leon, Connor, Evan, and RNH. With exemplary work from 40yr old Corey Perry.

It had little if anything to do with management.

Again the Oilers brass has two generational superstars to work with and have failed to put together a cup in a decade of having them.

May wanna check the goal differential when Connor and Leon were OFF the ice in these playoffs...(hint: it was very good)

the depth in these playoffs were the best in years and better than last year...yes, it dried up in the Finals...but so did Connor and Leon

 

[McBigYak]

Honestly we haven't constructed a roster. I know you know this. The Oilers instead pick off whatever players are easily available and try to build that into something.

Teams that win have a clear identity of team that they want to put together. Even roster mission statements to that effect. Example that the Knights before they even existed put together a blueprint of type players they wanted to have and build on in order to get to cup. The Oilers did the same in 1979. Kings have done this, Hawks have done this, Tampa have done this.

Answer what type of team identity the Oilers want to put together. Theres never really a consensus view on this within management and we've had frequent management changes that would resemble the worst expansion franchices. Indeed could be cited that with how many different management teams and coaches we've had here that the org is basically just spinning the wheel. There is no plan with roster, where it lands, who's even in charge.

Literally the entire blue line of this team has been drafted, signed, or traded for over the last 5-7 years, with the goal of developing a blue-line that can move the puck quickly to the forwards, that being the best two forwards in the game. And this is the best blueline we've had in decades, and I don't even think it's close.

The bottom end of the roster is ALWAYS going to be a plug and play when you have McDrai taking up as much cap space as they are. It is just the way it works.

It is no surprise the Blackhawks went completely to shit after Toews and Kane got their big money contracts. They were simply too heavy on the top end salary wise.

If the Oilers can get positive contributions from guys like Savoie, Tomisek, Frederic, Philp, Podz, etc, (all of which outside of Philp were acquired by Bowman, by the way) they'll have filled out a lot of the bottom 6 on some discounted contracts, and injected a lot of youth into the lineup they did not have last year.

 

[McBigYak]

May wanna check the goal differential when Connor and Leon were OFF the ice in these playoffs...(hint: it was very good)

the depth in these playoffs were the best in years and better than last year...yes, it dried up in the Finals...but so did Connor and Leon

Yep. Situation of what have you done for me lately. Depth was absolutely outstanding this playoffs, and the team collectively dried up in the finals.

One would argue this was a coaching problem, for the most part. As McDavid said, "Doing the same f***ing thing over and over again, smashing our heads against the wall".

 

[Drivesaitl]

Literally the entire blue line of this team has been drafted, signed, or traded for over the last 5-7 years, with the goal of developing a blue-line that can move the puck quickly to the forwards, that being the best two forwards in the game.

The bottom end of the roster is ALWAYS going to be a plug and play when you have McDrai taking up as much cap space as they are. It is just the way it works.

It is no surprise the Blackhawks went completely to shit after Toews and Kane got their big money contracts. They were simply too heavy on the top end salary wise.

If the Oilers can get positive contributions from guys like Savoie, Tomisek, Frederic, Philp, Podz, etc, (all of which outside of Philp were acquired by Bowman, by the way) they'll have filled out a lot of the bottom 6 on some discounted contracts, and injected a lot of youth into the lineup they did not have last year.

I did like the D core that we had assembled for this playoff run. I have felt that it was the deepest D we've had in decades and with no obvious weak D. So there is that. But its the worst goaltending and forward depth I've seen in this org for years. That was what ultimately sunk us.

 

[Little Fury]

Drai: We didn't win. nothing else matters, who cares?

The bolded is speculative fallacy. Counting a presumed success that has not occurred.

But its also telling because its the habit of this org to just throw spaghetti at the wall seeing if it sticks. Its almost random process with this team. If it isn't then tell me what team identity, type of team the management has been shooting for all these years.

You don't think there wasn't a consistent theme behind adding a bunch of older established veteran types and moving on from several younger and inconsistent players?

 

[hockeywiz542]

Connor McDavid: 'No rush' on signing extension with Edmonton Oilers, puts winning atop his list | TSN.ca

Edmonton Oilers superstar Connor McDavid said Thursday's he's feeling no pressure to get an extension worked out for July 1, when he will officially enter the final year of his current deal.

"It's only been a couple days since the season ended," McDavid told reporters at the team's season-ending availability. "Take some time to regroup. Talk to my agent a little bit, and family and all that, and make some decisions whenever that time comes. But there's no rush."

When asked what his focus is on when committing to his future on his next deal, McDavid replied that claiming his first career Stanley Cup trumps all else.

"Winning would be at the top of the list,” McDavid said. “It's the most important thing. If I feel that there's a good window to win here, over and over again, then signing is no problem."

"It's only been a couple of days. I'm sure we'll get into it over the course of the next couple of weeks, but I'm not in a rush to make any decision, so I don't think that there needs to be any timeline. I know people are going to look at that July 1 day and be looking to see if there's anything done. But for me, I'm just not in a rush that way."

McDavid, 28, recorded 26 goals and 100 points in 67 games with the Oilers last season. He added seven goals and 33 points in 22 playoff games before his team was eliminated in the Stanley Cup Final Tuesday by the Florida Panthers for the second straight year.

"We're holding this together, trying to get it over the finish line," McDavid added of falling just short once again. "With that being said, ultimately still need to do what's best for me and my family, and that's who you have to take care of first."

The 6-foot-1 centre is entering the final season of an eight-year, $100 million contract with an annual cap hit of $12.5 million. He is eligible to hit unrestricted free agency in 2026.

The Oilers enter this off-season with $11.96 million in cap space and 19 players under contract for next season. Andy Strickland of FanDuel Sports Network reported Wednesday the Oilers were closing on an eight-year contract with pending UFA Trent Frederic worth roughly $4 million a year.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

I did like the D core that we had assembled for this playoff run. I have felt that it was the deepest D we've had in decades and with no obvious weak D. So there is that. But its the worst goaltending and forward depth I've seen in this org for years. That was what ultimately sunk us.

the Oilers had 19 players score a goal in these playoffs....gimme a break with this "no depth" non-sense

 

[Drivesaitl]

I’d say Podz was a hit and the Frederic is a wait and see at this point as he was playing injured imo
The rest agree
Edit. Skinner we will never really know going off how much play he got

I'm not sold on Pod because in the crunch playing against very physical team in the playoffs, in the final, he kind of disappeared. Even the hitting element wasn't completely there. He was still getting to some pucks and decent on forecheck but he was nailed in this series more than he was smoking opponents.

Nice kid, I give him credit for trying to change to be in an NHL lineup and do what he can but of note he stopped fighting at all several months ago and his physical game was also backed off by severe hits in this series. Its a mixed bag and then you have his hands which just can't be in a topsix. We probably need better.

 

[Drivesaitl]

You don't think there wasn't a consistent theme behind adding a bunch of older established veteran types and moving on from several younger and inconsistent players?

But its a poorly advised scheme. Because it then very shortly leads you into one and done or none and done territory. We have so many old players now and so few futures.

This is absolutely not how to build out a team to contend for years. The amount of work that now needs to be done to reconstruct a roster is much more than it was exactly a year ago.

In fact most teams that get to a cup retain the players that they had and then add to it. The Oilers conversely lost a lot of the players that they had.

 

[McBigYak]

the Oilers had 19 players score a goal in these playoffs....gimme a break with this "no depth" non-sense

I'm pretty sure they tied an NHL record back in the conference finals for most players contributing more than 4+ goals in the playoffs didn't they?

The no-depth thing is complete nonsense yes. Based solely on the fact they didn't perform well in the final. For 75% of the playoffs, it was outstanding.

 

[Little Fury]

May wanna check the goal differential when Connor and Leon were OFF the ice in these playoffs...(hint: it was very good)

the depth in these playoffs were the best in years and better than last year...yes, it dried up in the Finals...but so did Connor and Leon

Further to this, the team outscored the opposition 25-14 with 97 and 29 off the ice this postseason. Last season they were outscored 12-21 without the big two.

A bigger problem IMV both this year and last? McDavid and Drai both getting outscored away from each other.

 

[BeranekAndNeck]

Honestly we haven't constructed a roster. I know you know this. The Oilers instead pick off whatever players are easily available and try to build that into something.

Teams that win have a clear identity of team that they want to put together. Even roster mission statements to that effect. Example that the Knights before they even existed put together a blueprint of type players they wanted to have and build on in order to get to cup. The Oilers did the same in 1979. Kings have done this, Hawks have done this, Tampa have done this.

Answer what type of team identity the Oilers want to put together. Theres never really a consensus view on this within management and we've had frequent management changes that would resemble the worst expansion franchices. Indeed could be cited that with how many different management teams and coaches we've had here that the org is basically just spinning the wheel. There is no plan with roster, where it lands, who's even in charge.

Bravo. It is readily apparent that management and coaching are not aligned on what the team’s identity should be. How/why do you sign J Skinner without talking to Knoblauch about usage? What was the point of trading for Max Jones? Did anyone consider Walman’s handedness before trying to force him into the top four? Where the hell are all these rando Euros going to play?

Shit, even within the coaching staff I’m not sure they agree on the fundamentals. Coffey apparently wants one thing from the D (make plays up the middle!) and Knoblauch another from his forwards (don’t make plays up the middle, go up the wall instead!) while Stuart/Gulutzan run special team units that look night and day from each other.

We need one cohesive strategy. If that’s speed, then you dump anyone who doesn’t fit. If it’s slow the game down and muck up the middle of the ice to tire out opponents, you dump the soft perimeter types. But right now we’re trying to play the game “any way the other team wants to” and that leaves us with no clear ethos of our own. It’s maddening stuff.

 

[Ck1]

I like the kid and hope he improves he is only 23
I think maybe the pressure of him being young and one of the only players we have that plays with aggression and fights and chips in with a little offence got to him a bit.
I think he would improve if we had a few more players like him and not a team of soft players Janmark Henrique to name a couple
I’m hoping he can improve his game

 

[Drivesaitl]

the Oilers had 19 players score a goal in these playoffs....gimme a break with this "no depth" non-sense

Scoring a measly one goal in an entire playoffs is not a depth argument its a futility argument.

The Oilers specifically acquried 4 forwards to "help us" the last calendar year. They are Skinner, Arvid, Jones, Frederic. These scored 0, 1,1, 2 goals. Curiously they were our WORST production forwards for the offseason. Thats some kind of selection process.

That a waiver wire Kapanen ended up being our topsix winger last two rounds and that he was better than any of the acquisitions is an indictment of the acquisition process.

 

[ToeMcDrag83]

He probably would've signed July 1st midnight eastern if we finished the story properly this time.

I'm sure he'll still re-sign, he needs mental break though. The back-to-back losses blend together as one giant, ugly feeling. All the pressure to deliver just multiplied now. Last year's Cup loss was all over the past season, you could see it in their play through the season. We had an excellent 3 rounds this year, but the only thing that's going to stick again is the repeat missed opportunity. As much as the words/mantra will be put it behind and focus ahead, the next regular season will be more of the same. Nights they'll take off, 70/80% efforts until playoffs. It's a lot for him to take on in his head. Truly thought we'd see another level from him in the Finals after all the posturing building up to that moment again, but hey Florida played us hard and the deployment frankly put even more pressure on him to do it himself. His head must be hell thinking about waiting another year for just a potential shot at it again. Making the Finals isn't easy, let alone getting the last prize.

Dude needs a real break and reset. He'll sign in September, but he needs to truly work on letting some things go this summer to free him to play the way he can.

 

[McBigYak]

Bravo. It is readily apparent that management and coaching are not aligned on what the team’s identity should be. How/why do you sign J Skinner without talking to Knoblauch about usage? What was the point of trading for Max Jones? Did anyone consider Walman’s handedness before trying to force him into the top four? Where the hell are all these rando Euros going to play?

Shit, even within the coaching staff I’m not sure they agree on the fundamentals. Coffey apparently wants one thing from the D (make plays up the middle!) and Knoblauch another from his forwards (don’t make plays up the middle, go up the wall instead!) while Stuart/Gulutzan run special team units that look night and day from each other.

We need one cohesive strategy. If that’s speed, then you dump anyone who doesn’t fit. If it’s slow the game down and muck up the middle of the ice to tire out opponents, you dump the soft perimeter types. But right now we’re trying to play the game “any way the other team wants to” and that leaves us with no clear ethos of our own. It’s maddening stuff.

They kicked the shit out of every single team in the Western Conference. They made the top end teams in the Western Conference look like childs play. They dictated pretty much the entirety of play throughout 3 straight series. To actually think they're just playing the game the way the other team wants to is ridiculous.

Why is everyone acting like the Oilers are some team lost in the abyss or something?

They lost to a dynasty-level team that routinely gets players on large discounts because of the tax haven, and played $10M+ above the cap due to their LTIR situation.

At some point, you just need to acknowledge that the Oilers are good, arguably the 2nd best team in the National Hockey League, but the Panthers were just better, due to a lot of fortunate circumstances.

 

[Ck1]

Florida was the better team because they were the more physical team and the Oilers couldn’t match there physicality imo
Yes some of there physical play was questionable but at the end of the day they won
We missed Hyman and need a few more like him

 

[MessierThanThou]

Bravo. It is readily apparent that management and coaching are not aligned on what the team’s identity should be. How/why do you sign J Skinner without talking to Knoblauch about usage? What was the point of trading for Max Jones? Did anyone consider Walman’s handedness before trying to force him into the top four? Where the hell are all these rando Euros going to play?

Shit, even within the coaching staff I’m not sure they agree on the fundamentals. Coffey apparently wants one thing from the D (make plays up the middle!) and Knoblauch another from his forwards (don’t make plays up the middle, go up the wall instead!) while Stuart/Gulutzan run special team units that look night and day from each other.

We need one cohesive strategy. If that’s speed, then you dump anyone who doesn’t fit. If it’s slow the game down and muck up the middle of the ice to tire out opponents, you dump the soft perimeter types. But right now we’re trying to play the game “any way the other team wants to” and that leaves us with no clear ethos of our own. It’s maddening stuff.

I looked up Gulutzan and he's been with this team since KEN HITCHCOCK was coach.

 

[Little Fury]

But its a poorly advised scheme. Because it then very shortly leads you into one and done or none and done territory. We have so many old players now and so few futures.

It worked well enough to get us into the finals without really breaking a sweat.

As for the second point, that's how a lot of contending teams roll though we were certainly older than a lot but again: that was a conscious decision.

This is absolutely not how to build out a team to contend for years. The amount of work that now needs to be done to reconstruct a roster is much more than it was exactly a year ago.

Uh, we've been a contender for years my dude. And I don't see how much more work there is this year than last.

In fact most teams that get to a cup retain the players that they had and then add to it. The Oilers conversely lost a lot of the players that they had.

That's not true. Teams that make the Cup tend to retain their core and shed spare parts and replace them. That's what Florida did as they moved on from guys like OEL, Tarasenko, Montour, Okposo, Stolarz etc. No one stands pat.

 

[Arpeggio]

The Oilers bottom six depth was fantastic this postseason. Where they fell short was depth in the top six. They didn't have enough to withstand Hyman going out and Nuge being injured. That's what killed them.

Once they had to move Perry and Kapanen into the top six, they were hooped. But those players played very well when everyone was in their correct slots. Arvidsson and Skinner not panning out as impact top six wingers got them in the end, but I do think they withstand it (or at least give the Panthers a better run) if Hyman and Nuge don't get hurt.

Saying that this is the worst forward depth in years is crazy. Before last year we would regularly have 7-8 forwards taking a regular shift in big games. This year we had four lines rolling for three rounds, right up until Hyman went out.

 

[tardigrade81]

The Oilers bottom six depth was fantastic this postseason. Where they fell short was depth in the top six. They didn't have enough to withstand Hyman going out and Nuge being injured. That's what killed them.

Once they had to move Perry and Kapanen into the top six, they were hooped. But those players played very well when everyone was in their correct slots. Arvidsson and Skinner not panning out as impact top six wingers got them in the end, but I do think they withstand it (or at least give the Panthers a better run) if Hyman and Nuge don't get hurt.

Saying that this is the worst forward depth in years is crazy. Before last year we would regularly have 7-8 forwards taking a regular shift in big games. This year we had four lines rolling for three rounds, right up until Hyman went out.

Agreed

Losing Hyman was a bigger loss than I could have imagined. Just brutal to lose a player that good in the finals

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Scoring a measly one goal in an entire playoffs is not a depth argument its a futility argument.

The Oilers specifically acquried 4 forwards to "help us" the last calendar year. They are Skinner, Arvid, Jones, Frederic. These scored 0, 1,1, 2 goals. Curiously they were our WORST production forwards for the offseason. Thats some kind of selection process.

That a waiver wire Kapanen ended up being our topsix winger last two rounds and that he was better than any of the acquisitions is an indictment of the acquisition process.

So we had “bad depth” because the players we acquired last offseason didn’t perform? That makes little sense
Perry had a big playoffs
Brown was great until he got banged up
Kapanen score a huge goal
Nuge was great in the Dallas series

We were 2 wins away from winning it all and we were missing our best winger, Nuge was half a player and our best Dman was awful