Player Discussion McDavid

[McBigYak]

"I will dunk on the missteps and refuse to acknowledge the successes so that my argument works."

Yep. If they win, it was in spite of management. If they lose, management was shit. Lol.

 

[Fishy McScales]

Oh, like conveniently ignoring McDavid having a superhuman post-season?

What?

 

[Drivesaitl]

They got beat by one team this year. They absolutely steamrolled through the West.

"worst forward depth we've had in years" is just blatantly inaccurate. Sitting in the conference finals all everyone could talk about is the depth of the Oilers because so many guys were contributing. They ran out of steam in the finals. Lost their top winger, their 2nd best winger broke his hand.

Try again next year.

And as I've mentioned, it does nothing for fans to complain about the past failures of this organization except to wallow in their own self-pity.

The team is one of the best in the league, and is likely a goaltender and a top 6 forward away from being the front runner to win the Stanley Cup.

We have 8 forwards that contribute essentially nothing. We're talking low production old forwards that don't hit, don't have grit, don't play an identity game and are just there.

Yeah ridiculously old forward depth ran out of steam. Who could have predicted that?

Even in regular season our 5th leading production forward was Corey Perry with lol 30pts. Thats a joke of a forward depth lineup and an indictment. We had only two forwards with even 50pts.

At no time were we more reliant on top players than this season.

 

[AlwaysSunnyInTampa]

Did anyone see a lot of frustration from McDavid in his interview when he stated @we kept doing the same f**king thing” when asked about the breakouts? Was he pissed at the coaches for not adjusting?

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/mcdavid-we-kept-f--king-trying-the-same-thing-over-and-over-agai~3153600

Man this guy is gonna f***ing HATE Tampa were the 0.00008% odds of him going there were even true to begin with. We haven't changed in 4 years. I wish it turned out better for you guys. I was pulling so hard to see you get it done

 

[MessierThanThou]

"But we should have more cups by now!!!"

But, we don't so stop whining about it. The worst of all the whines I hear from the whiners here. Go watch the Flames, their fans obsessively harp on the same thing.

We're easily the second best team in the league with a lot of room to build on the last two years. Christ we lose in the Final in a disappointing way and you'd swear we're a lottery team all the sudden.

It becomes a valid argument when people question McDavid and Leon's legacies, and why they haven't won more at this junction in their careers. Hard to win when you spend three or four seasons with a roster half-filled with AHLers because your idiot GMs paid 30-year-old rookie Koskinen $4.5 million/year for almost half a decade or gave Nurse the same salary as a Cale Makar or Jack Campbell that shitty contract, forcing us to die for three straight postseasons with Skinner (mostly) in net. It's valid because some of these mistakes are still hurting the team today.

As to your second point, you already know I agree with you there.

 

[MessierThanThou]

"I will dunk on the missteps and refuse to acknowledge the successes so that my argument works."

"I will gloss over the missteps and embellish the successes."

We don't have a Cup yet. No team with two players of this caliber at this point in their careers has EVER been able to say that. Just because Holland was better than one of the worst GMs in league history doesn't mean he was good enough.

There's no Silver Medal. We haven't won yet. Period.

 

[Fishy McScales]

"I will gloss over the missteps and embellish the successes."

We don't have a Cup yet. No team with two players of this caliber at this point in their careers has EVER been able to say that. Just because Holland was better than one of the worst GMs in league history, doesn't mean he was good enough.

There's no participation ribbon here. We haven't won yet. Period.

Okay thanks for the speech? Did I gloss over missteps and embellish the successes at any point btw? Can you show me?

If you didn't understand, my point was that that is arguing in bad faith. You know. Like you were doing.

 

[McBigYak]

"I will gloss over the missteps and embellish the successes."

We don't have a Cup yet. No team with two players of this caliber at this point in their careers have EVER been able to say that. Just because Holland was better than one of the worst GMs in league history, doesn't mean he was good enough.

There's no participation ribbon here. We haven't won yet. Period.

The Washington Capitals didn't even come close to sniffing the finals for ten years. They had a perennial top 5 centreman in Backstrom and the greatest goal scorer in NHL history.

They finished first in their division 10 out of 13 years, and won one Stanley Cup, and it was arguably at one of their last kicks at the can for it with their roster at that time.

Sure, it's not necessarily a Draisaitl/McDavid situation. They are better talents than Backstrom. But it's not as if the Oilers are the first team ever to not win a cup with generational talent on the roster. Took Ovi 14 years.

 

[MessierThanThou]

Okay thanks for the speech? Did I gloss over missteps and embellish the successes at any point btw? Can you show me?

If you didn't understand, my point was that that is arguing in bad faith. You know. Like you were doing.

OK, forgive me for thinking that the Nurse and Campbell contracts were detrimental to this team and that Holland isn't a genius for acquiring players that 99/100 GMs would have done in Barrie, Hyman, and Ekholm since they all filled obvious, pressing needs at the time.

 

[Fishy McScales]

OK, forgive me for thinking that the Nurse and Campbell contracts were detrimental to this team and that Holland isn't a genius for acquiring players that 99/100 GMs would have done in Barrie, Hyman, and Ekholm since they all filled obvious, pressing needs at the time.

Aaand you went right back.

Good talk.

 

[MessierThanThou]

The Washington Capitals didn't even come close to sniffing the finals for ten years. They had a perennial top 5 centreman in Backstrom and the greatest goal scorer in NHL history.

They finished first in their division 10 out of 13 years, and won one Stanley Cup, and it was arguably at one of their last kicks at the can for it with their roster at that time.

Backstrom is no Draisaitl. In what season was he a legitimate Hart candidate? At what point, ever, did he have a legit claim to being a top three player in the league?

 

[Drivesaitl]

"I will dunk on the missteps and refuse to acknowledge the successes so that my argument works."

What was the specific management success the last calendar year?

Lets make a list:

Misses: Assess we don't need a starting goalie, fail to acquire one.

Arvid, Skinner, Jones, Frederic, acquisitions.

Janmark, Brown, Henrigue, Ryan, extensions.


Hits: Walman, Klingberg. (the latter even being debatable because he couldn't play much and predictably got hurt again.

Am I missing more hits? Are we really going to include waiver wire pick ups and Emberson?

 

[McBigYak]

What was the specific management success the last calendar year?

Lets make a list:

Misses: Assess we don't need a starting goalie, fail to acquire one.

Arvid, Skinner, Jones, Frederic, acquisitions.

Janmark, Brown, Henrigue, Ryan, extensions.


Hits: Walman, Klingberg. (the latter even being debatable because he couldn't play much and predictably got hurt again.

Am I missing more hits? Are we really going to include waiver wire pick ups and Emberson?

Hits: Playing hockey longer than 30 other teams in the National Hockey League, and coming within 2 games of winning a championship.

Lost to a team that took full advantage of their LTIR situation and state tax benefit to ice a team that would have been largely impossible to do anywhere else.

Lost to a team that is arguably better managed than them, no question. But to act as if the Oilers brass is some bottom feeder in terms of organization management despite being one of the 2 remaining teams playing hockey in June for two straight years is comical.

Starting goalie and a top 6 forward likely puts this team as a Stanley Cup favorite.

But hey. Bad management. Lol.

 

[Fishy McScales]

What was the specific management success the last calendar year?

Lets make a list:

Misses: Assess we don't need a starting goalie, fail to acquire one.

Arvid, Skinner, Jones, Frederic, acquisitions.

Janmark, Brown, Henrigue, Ryan, extensions.


Hits: Walman, Klingberg. (the latter even being debatable because he couldn't play much and predictably got hurt again.

Am I missing more hits? Are we really going to include waiver wire pick ups and Emberson?

This has nothing to do with what I posted so I won't answer it.

 

[BeranekAndNeck]

This has nothing to do with what I posted so I won't answer it.

When the misses far out number the hits we have every right to be critical. Do you want bad management? If so, why?

 

[Drivesaitl]

Hits: Playing hockey longer than 30 other teams in the National Hockey League, and coming within 2 games of winning a championship.

Lost to a team that took full advantage of their LTIR situation and state tax benefit to ice a team that would have been largely impossible to do anywhere else.

Lost to a team that is arguably better managed than them, no question. But to act as if the Oilers brass is some bottom feeder in terms of organization management despite being one of the 2 remaining teams playing hockey in June for two straight years is comical.

Starting goalie and a top 6 forward likely puts this team as a Stanley Cup favorite.

But hey. Bad management. Lol.

You're conflating team results with management decisions. The Oilers got as far as they did on the backs of Leon, Connor, Evan, and RNH. With exemplary work from 40yr old Corey Perry.

It had little if anything to do with management.

Again the Oilers brass has two generational superstars to work with and have failed to put together a cup in a decade of having them.

 

[MessierThanThou]

I actually don't have too much of a problem with Bowman so far. Who knows where that $7 million wasted on Skinner and Arvidsson would've gone? Maybe Bowman decides we have enough to keep McLeod and Holloway? Maybe he gets someone we actually needed?

Kapanen was a positive surprise, and Klingberg and Walman were a big reason we even got this far, even if they imploded when it mattered most (and there's an argument that Walman was misused).

Not getting another goalie was a mistake, but Skinner and Pickard surprised me in certain rounds. I hope Bowman learned his lesson with Skinner though and doesn't fall for the same trap.

 

[Fishy McScales]

When the misses far out number the hits we have every right to be critical. Do you want bad management? If so, why?

This also has nothing to do with what I posted so I won't answer it either.

 

[BeranekAndNeck]

This also has nothing to do with what I posted so I won't answer it either.

Putting your hands over your ears and shouting “lalala” is not a winning strategy my friend.

 

[Fishy McScales]

Putting your hands over your ears and shouting “lalala” is not a winning strategy my friend.

Then maybe stop?

 

[McBigYak]

You're conflating team results with management decisions. The Oilers got as far as they did on the backs of Leon, Connor, Evan, and RNH. With exemplary work from 40yr old Corey Perry.

It had little if anything to do with management.

Again the Oilers brass has two generational superstars to work with and have failed to put together a cup in a decade of having them.

This management team has been here for exactly one year.

Dwelling on the ineptitude of this organization in the past is really not all that constructive at all. What is the point? Who cares?

Jackson and Bowman have constructed a roster that largely has one gaping hole, and that is a starting goaltender, which they will undoubtedly address this offseason. Everything else can be relatively easily filled out. Savoie, Philp, and Tomasek likely on the roster next year.

This D core is arguably the best they've had in a very long time. Walman with term is outstanding. They locked Leo up for 8 years. They're going to lock McDavid up for 8 more.

Oilers are positioned to be a Stanley Cup favorite for the next half decade, at minimum, assuming McDavid gets locked up. WTF do Oilers fans have to complain about at this point? They're going to knock on the door for many more years here, and eventually it's going to click.

 

[Dirk Dangler]

Hits: Playing hockey longer than 30 other teams in the National Hockey League, and coming within 2 games of winning a championship.

Lost to a team that took full advantage of their LTIR situation and state tax benefit to ice a team that would have been largely impossible to do anywhere else.

Lost to a team that is arguably better managed than them, no question. But to act as if the Oilers brass is some bottom feeder in terms of organization management despite being one of the 2 remaining teams playing hockey in June for two straight years is comical.

Starting goalie and a top 6 forward likely puts this team as a Stanley Cup favorite.

But hey. Bad management. Lol.

It is bad management. This management team inherited the roster. Then made it worse. Got rid of impact players for older and smaller guys. Guys who were healthy scratches many times throughout the playoffs.

They also decided to run with league worst goaltending. With a defensive coach who wants to win 2-1 games. Management and coaching wants to be the 2000 New Jersey devils. But have league worst goaltending instead of Marty Brodeur. Its definitely not good management.

 

[MessierThanThou]

Putting your hands over your ears and shouting “lalala” is not a winning strategy my friend.

LOL.

 

[jitterbug]

somewhat surprised at all the worry around McDavid re-signing online. he basically gave as good of a press conference as any player is trained to give

 

[Drivesaitl]

This management team has been here for exactly one year.

Dwelling on the ineptitude of this organization in the past is really not all that constructive at all. What is the point? Who cares?

Jackson and Bowman have constructed a roster that largely has one gaping hole, and that is a starting goaltender, which they will undoubtedly address this offseason. Everything else can be relatively easily filled out. Savoie, Philp, and Tomasek likely on the roster next year.

This D core is arguably the best they've had in a very long time. Walman with term is outstanding. They locked Leo up for 8 years. They're going to lock McDavid up for 8 more.

Oilers are positioned to be a Stanley Cup favorite for the next half decade, at minimum, assuming McDavid gets locked up. WTF do Oilers fans have to complain about at this point? They're going to knock on the door for many more years here, and eventually it's going to click.

Drai: We didn't win. nothing else matters, who cares?

The bolded is speculative fallacy. Counting a presumed success that has not occurred.

But its also telling because its the habit of this org to just throw spaghetti at the wall seeing if it sticks. Its almost random process with this team. If it isn't then tell me what team identity, type of team the management has been shooting for all these years.