McDavid surpasses Ovechkin in all time playoff points

[wetcoast]

For position players, only Sid, Malkin and McDavid have a better resume for players of ovechkin’s generation. Let’s not underestimate how much a Conn Smythe factors into things.
Ovi has that over all-timers like Hull, Bourque, Jagr, Potvin, Esposito, Mikita,

You don't think that guys like Kuch, Kane, Marchand, Drai, Mack, Bergeron, Hedman, Toewes, Keith, Zettetberg and Datsuyk are in the conversation given "overall impact" and 2 way play?

Even Draisaitl arguably has the better overall playoff resume right now as an individual player.

Also on the Conn Smythe thing, Kuch and othesr have Conn Smythe worthy post seasons and I'd say the same thing if Ovi hadn't ad lost the Smythe to Kuznetsov , which would have been acceptable.

I'd rather compare Conn Smythe worthy seasons than try to hang my hat on guys who just won and who didn't as one is more informative than the other metric.

 

[Sentinel]

If I were to rank all the mentioned teams, it would be something like this:

Detroit 08, 09, Pittsburgh 09
Florida 24, 25
Pittsburgh 16
Washington 18, Edmonton 25
Pittsburgh 17
Edmonton 24

 

[DrDangles]

Ovi and Crosby would never sniff a cup if this Florida team was around

This Florida team can barely handle a one line team with no defensive structure and a borderline AHL level goalie. The cup winning Pens or Caps would steamroll them in 5.

 

[JianYang]

Yeah but he has no cups.

If he was really that good, he would have prevented Marchand from getting the breakaway, or at least help skinner by swatting the puck away from the net before it crossed the goal line.

 

[Sentinel]

This Florida team can barely handle a one line team with no defensive structure and a borderline AHL level goalie. The cup winning Pens or Caps would steamroll them in 5.

That "one-line team" features two of the best players of the millennium. Also both RNH and Kane would be first-liners on Pens and Caps. What the Oilers don't have is defense and their goalie is sus.

 

[Greatzsky 99]

It kinda helps when Crosby has not made the playoffs in 3 years, probably 5 when McDavid passes him. Not to mention Sullivan could not get his team past the 1st round or hell, even the tryins over Montreal. Let's not forget Drai was used as his linemate when Malkin did not get used as a wing like Drai.

Well it helped for crosby to play 15 years straight

Crosby has played 181 games, i dont think that
Many players have haf played more during that stretch, Perry of course

 

[Greatzsky 99]

Amazing pace but I am causcious as always about the future, never know, i think everybody belived crosby would get to 3rd all time, now it seems he would not add PO points

 

[pi314]

It’s kinda crazy how Ovi has played 161 playoff games while making it out of the second round only once. The Caps have been making the playoffs for so long that you’d expect them to go deeper a few times. Can’t complain about a cup though.

I seriously think the difference between Sid having three cups and Ovi having three was the 2016 and 2017 Pens-Caps series.

That and one is a lazy floater and one is 200 foot beast.

There is a reason McDavid has already passed Ovechkin.

 

[Lou Sassole]

You don't think that guys like Kuch, Kane, Marchand, Drai, Mack, Bergeron, Hedman, Toewes, Keith, Zettetberg and Datsuyk are in the conversation given "overall impact" and 2 way play?

Even Draisaitl arguably has the better overall playoff resume right now as an individual player.

Also on the Conn Smythe thing, Kuch and othesr have Conn Smythe worthy post seasons and I'd say the same thing if Ovi hadn't ad lost the Smythe to Kuznetsov , which would have been acceptable.

I'd rather compare Conn Smythe worthy seasons than try to hang my hat on guys who just won and who didn't as one is more informative than the other metric.

How do you discount physical play after seeing how much influence it has in this playoffs alone? The Oilers increased physicality is a big part of their success, they aren't scared to hit back against the Panthers. Well, Ovie was an unbelievably physical player who intimidated other teams in the playoffs. We don't win that Cup if he and Wilson don't pound the will out of the lighting in the conference finals.

 

[Czechboy]

Fastest players to 150 playoff points​

Player	POS	PO Games	Age
Gretzky Wayne	C	68	24.33
Lemieux Mario	C	86	31.54
Kurri Jari	RW	105	27.92
Messier Mark	C	113	27.30
Bossy Mike	RW	119	28.26
Forsberg Peter	C	127	30.74
Gilmour Doug	C	129	31.89
Kucherov Nikita	RW	130	28.98
Anderson Glenn	RW	131	29.54
Savard Denis	C	131	32.24
Crosby Sidney	C	134	29.75
Coffey Paul	D	135	32.90
Sakic Joe	C	138	33.77
Beliveau Jean	C	139	37.66
Howe Gordie	RW	140	38.03
Malkin Evgeni	C	141	30.81
Trottier Bryan	C	141	28.74
Jagr Jaromir	RW	142	31.15
Hull Brett	RW	144	35.78
Fedorov Sergei	C	146	32.41
Yzerman Steve	C	146	34.93
Mikita Stan	C	155	37.92
Oates Adam	C	155	40.71
Potvin Denis	D	158	31.45
MacInnis Al	D	161	37.84
Bourque Ray	D	167	37.34
Smith Bobby	C	169	33.23
Marchand Brad	LW	169	37.02
Lemieux Claude	RW	205	34.79
Murphy Larry	D	209	39.16
Lidstrom Nicklas	D	216	38.97

on pace *:

Player	POS	PO Games	PO PTS	PO Games (On Pace)
McDavid Connor	C	92	148	94
Draisaitl Leon	C	92	137	101
MacKinnon Nathan	C	95	125	114
Rantanen Mikko	RW	99	123	121
Bouchard Evan	D	71	79	135
Makar Cale	D	79	85	140
Guentzel Jake	LW	74	73	153
Point Brayden	C	92	89	156
Pastrnak David	RW	90	87	156
Kane Patrick	RW	143	138	156
Landeskog Gabriel	LW	74	71	157
Aho Sebastian	C	89	85	158
Hughes Jack	C	12	11	164
Ovechkin Alex	LW	161	147	165
Marner Mitchell	RW	70	63	167
Tkachuk Matthew	LW	89	78	172
Toews Jonathan	C	137	119	173
Matthews Auston	C	68	59	173
Hughes Quinn	D	30	26	174
Nylander William	RW	67	58	174
Nugent-Hopkins Ryan	C	92	79	175
Zibanejad Mika	C	74	63	177
Fox Adam	D	46	39	177
Barkov Aleksander	C	90	76	178
Verhaeghe Carter	C	88	72	184
Stamkos Steven	C	128	101	191
Robertson Jason	LW	56	44	191
Jarvis Seth	C	55	43	192
Stone Mark	RW	112	85	198
Barzal Mathew	C	60	45	200
Marchessault Jonathan	RW	102	76	202
Forsberg Filip	LW	81	59	206
Bennett Sam	C	103	75	206
Svechnikov Andrei	RW	66	48	207
Hintz Roope	C	95	69	207
Smith Reilly	RW	117	83	212
Hedman Victor	D	170	120	213
Heiskanen Miro	D	93	65	215
Suzuki Nick	C	37	25	222
Karlsson William	C	111	74	225
Palat Ondrej	LW	150	101	226
Perry Corey	RW	215	127	252
Caufield Cole	RW	20	12	254
Theodore Shea	D	114	68	257
Lundell Anton	C	54	28	261
Johnston Wyatt	C	38	22	263

*
include: active players with "on pace" games < 265 (miss the cut-off example: Alexis Lafrenière, 281 "on pace")
exclude: older players who don't have enough PO PTS to reach 150 before the end of their career (example: Mark Scheifele, Artemi Panarin, John Tavares, Claude Giroux, Anze Kopitar)

So he has 7 games to get two points and become one of only 3 guys to do this in under 100 games?

Any chance your first list can be sorted by age... Trying to figure out where he fits age wise.

 

[MOGlLNY]

Ovi and Crosby would never sniff a cup if this Florida team was around

 

[Darren McCord]

If I were to rank all the mentioned teams, it would be something like this:

Detroit 08, 09, Pittsburgh 09
Florida 24, 25
Pittsburgh 16
Washington 18, Edmonton 25
Pittsburgh 17
Edmonton 24

Nah that Pittsburgh team in 16 was up with this florida team. They were really good. Scoring is up so much more now it makes things look different.

21 - 24 Last four years goals per game avg is 3.09
24 Panthers scored 3.04 goals per game
24 Panthers goals against 2.27

13 - 16 four years goals per game avg is 2.68
16 Penguins were scoring 3.04 goals per game
16 Penguins goals against 2.21

In a lower scoring era the penguins scored just as much as the panthers and allowed less goals.

That team is very underrated.

 

[Dirtyclapper]

And

 

[wetcoast]

How do you discount physical play after seeing how much influence it has in this playoffs alone? The Oilers increased physicality is a big part of their success, they aren't scared to hit back against the Panthers. Well, Ovie was an unbelievably physical player who intimidated other teams in the playoffs. We don't win that Cup if he and Wilson don't pound the will out of the lighting in the conference finals.

I don't discount physical play though.

What I do when evaluating players is that I try to look at everything, offense, defense, board battles, total impact and also high points and low points in consistency from year to year basically I take the everything approach for every player and try to challenge every player on every aspect in their game and how it imapcts overall.

IMO too many people either look too much at stats or gloss over some areas because they feel it's not that important in winning and part of that is the fantasy hockey culture IMO.

Like I stated upthread Ovi is arguably the second or 3rd best player since the lockout (if one has McDavid ahead of him, I don't yet) but he has a very weak argument to be the 3rd best playoff performer in that time period and might arguably be outside of the top 10 as well.

That is if people are being consistent in their talent and impact evaluation and sometimes it's quite obvious they aren't doing that 100% the same for all players.

 

[pnep]

Any chance your first list can be sorted by age..