Maybe the most insane Gretzky stat I’ve never seen before

[tazzy19]

Here’s one you might not know: 99 has the most assists in history just with his PRIMARY assists alone (1,324 primary assists). This is despite him also having the most secondary assists in history as well (639 secondary assists). In fact, if you removed all of Gretzky’s career leading secondary assists, he’d still be the only player with 2000+ points — with 2,218 points without his secondary assists and would still be 297 points ahead of 2nd place Jagr (in 246 less games than Jagr).

Here’s another one: If you removed ALL of Gretzky’s assists with the Edmonton Oilers (all 1086 Oilers’ assists), he would STILL have more assists than Ovechkin and still be top 6 in all time points . So absurd. And so much for the argument that he needed his Oilers teammates in order to be great. And this was mostly after his prime ended and most certainly well past his peak.

Any other insane 99 stats that we’ve never heard before?

 

[Randyne]

Here’s another one: If you removed ALL of Gretzky’s assists with the Edmonton Oilers (all 1086 Oilers’ assists)

Why remove, just adjust and his 1007 points gap between him and Howe will shrink to 285.

NHL & WHA Career Leaders and Records for Adjusted Points | Hockey-Reference.com

1. Wayne Gretzky (2475), 2. Gordie Howe (2190), 3. Jaromír Jágr (2080), 4. Sidney Crosby (1835), 5. Alex Ovechkin (1776), 6. Mark Messier (1732), 7. Ron Francis (1711), 8. Joe Thornton (1692), 9. Joe Sakic (1679), 10. Steve Yzerman (1650)

www.hockey-reference.com

 

[Crosby2010]

It is like a fine wine with Gretzky. The more of a deep dive you do into his career and stats the more mind boggling they become. There are records that will simply never fall of his. His grandkids can take them to their grave.

 

[VanIslander]

The never mentioned stat:

14 years of league-leading 86+ assists each...

Right thereafter...

Twice leading the league in assists again (16 years total), those two seasons his only two full seasons played without games lost due to injury despite an epic back problem.

He retired the next season.

Just choose to watch two random games from his career and the greatness will jump off the screen. So many of his best plays were not the goals or assists. He wasn't clutch, he was a river of awesomeness.

 

[tazzy19]

The never mentioned stat:

14 years of league-leading 86+ assists each...

Right thereafter...

Twice leading the league in assists again (16 years total), those two seasons his only two full seasons played without games lost due to injury despite an epic back problem.

He retired the next season.

Just choose to watch two random games from his career and the greatness will jump off the screen. So many of his best plays were not the goals or assists. He wasn't clutch, he was a river of awesomeness.

How about 14 seasons with 120+ points? Completely insane. 6 seasons with 180+ points is also insane. As is 10 seasons of 2+ PPG.

If you ever want to see something absurd, check out his average Art Ross win point total (around 185 points per Art Ross over a sample size of 10 of them lol).

 

[PistolPete]

How about 14 seasons with 120+ points? Completely insane. 6 seasons with 180+ points is also insane. As is 10 seasons of 2+ PPG.

If you ever want to see something absurd, check out his average Art Ross win point total (around 185 points per Art Ross over a sample size of 10 of them lol).

And to get 130 points was a huge deal for any other player during that same time.

The most amazing thing about Gretzkybisn't his stats pet se, it's the gulf between him and the rear of the superstars

 

[Randyne]

Just choose to watch two random games from his career and the greatness will jump off the screen

Where can I find his games? I want to see 50-60 games.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

five year peak where he averages 8.2 pts/year more than mario’s highest scoring season

total lunacy

 

[BraveCanadian]

Why remove, just adjust and his 1007 points gap between him and Howe will shrink to 285.

If only it were that simple, eh?

 

[VanIslander]

Where can I find his games? I want to see 50-60 games.

Youtube.

Choose a year and two teams nhl game, and watch

I just youtubed 'NY Rangers April 1998' and the entire last Gretzky game against the LA Kings in their old arena popped up. Watch and enjoy. I don't even remember the score. I might watch it today.

 

[Staniowski]

Where can I find his games? I want to see 50-60 games.

If you're going to watch a few Gretzky games, I'd recommend to start with an early career game, say one from '81-'82, when his skating is at its best; then maybe one of the '87 Canada Cup games against the Soviet Union; and a game on the Kings around 1990.

That would be a pretty good sample for anybody who hasn't seen him play before.

 

[The Panther]

...then maybe one of the '87 Canada Cup games against the Soviet Union

Game 2 of the 1987 Canada Cup Final shows him at his best. He is really digging in and engaged in that do-or-die game. (By contrast, in game 1 he isn't particularly good -- he scored what appears to be the late game-winning goal, but then gives the puck away to let the Soviets tie it a minute later. And in game 3, he's not overly noticeable, series-winning goal notwithstanding).

I recently watched game six of the 1986 Smythe Final vs. Calgary, from the Saddledome, and Gretzky was awesome. This is the game where Calgary could have eliminated Edmonton, at home, and they got a 2-0 lead... but couldn't finish it off. Wayne had only one assist (a secondary assist at that, but a well-earned one), but he was just great. I was quite impressed by his defensive game in this one, too, believe it or not.

 

[bobholly39]

Here’s one you might not know: 99 has the most assists in history just with his PRIMARY assists alone (1,324 primary assists). This is despite him also having the most secondary assists in history as well (639 secondary assists). In fact, if you removed all of Gretzky’s career leading secondary assists, he’d still be the only player with 2000+ points — with 2,218 points without his secondary assists and would still be 297 points ahead of 2nd place Jagr (in 246 less games than Jagr).

Here’s another one: If you removed ALL of Gretzky’s assists with the Edmonton Oilers (all 1086 Oilers’ assists), he would STILL have more assists than Ovechkin and still be top 6 in all time points . So absurd. And so much for the argument that he needed his Oilers teammates in order to be great. And this was mostly after his prime ended and most certainly well past his peak.

Any other insane 99 stats that we’ve never heard before?

I don't really get the excitement.

The content certainly didn't match the promise of the thread title.

Gretzky has a ton of assist. We all knew that. Way more than anyone else. Not surprised that on primary assists alone he's still #1. If you break up his assists in anyway (ie primary or not, or edmonton vs not), it's still a very big number.

 

[authentic]

If you're going to watch a few Gretzky games, I'd recommend to start with an early career game, say one from '81-'82, when his skating is at its best; then maybe one of the '87 Canada Cup games against the Soviet Union; and a game on the Kings around 1990.

That would be a pretty good sample for anybody who hasn't seen him play before.

Did his skating really begin to decline after 1981-82? I could’ve sworn it remained roughly the same until around 87-88. Even watching some games of his in the mid 90s, well after the back injury the could still move pretty good in a straight line with the puck, his shorthanded goal against New Jersey with the Blues comes to mind. Of course by then he wasn’t as agile but I believe he found a way to skate faster in a straight line than he had the several seasons before and maintained that for a few more seasons. Also his slap shot was amazing in the late 90s, looked like he had more power on it than earlier in his career. A lot of that is stick technology but also I would imagine he was also stronger at that point as well.

 

[The Panther]

I don't think Gretzky lost anything, skating-wise, until September 1991.

There is a game in Canada Cup '91 where John Davidson makes the observation that Gretzky is skating as well as he ever did in his career, and I'd agree.

 

[Greatzsky 99]

Why remove, just adjust and his 1007 points gap between him and Howe will shrink to 285.

NHL & WHA Career Leaders and Records for Adjusted Points | Hockey-Reference.com

1. Wayne Gretzky (2475), 2. Gordie Howe (2190), 3. Jaromír Jágr (2080), 4. Sidney Crosby (1835), 5. Alex Ovechkin (1776), 6. Mark Messier (1732), 7. Ron Francis (1711), 8. Joe Thornton (1692), 9. Joe Sakic (1679), 10. Steve Yzerman (1650)

www.hockey-reference.com

adjusted points is a joke, does anyone take them seriously?
are they adjusted cups also? sorry you didnt win 5 cups you won 3...

 

[MadLuke]

I don't think Gretzky lost anything, skating-wise, until September 1991.

That would be in line with scoring decline was due to the league getting better.

are they adjusted cups also? sorry you didnt win 5 cups you won 3...

Yes but in no official way or any metric, just a feeling, if Bedard would have went and lead the league in goals, goals per games in the playoff winning 10 cup like Maurice Richard it would have been perceived differently.

 

[jigglysquishy]

I don't think Gretzky lost anything, skating-wise, until September 1991.

There is a game in Canada Cup '91 where John Davidson makes the observation that Gretzky is skating as well as he ever did in his career, and I'd agree.

I definitely think he was impacted by his 1987 knee injury. The contemporary reports seem to indicate so.

 

[WarriorofTime]

That would be in line with scoring decline was due to the league getting better.


Yes but in no official way or any metric, justg a feeling, if Bedard would have went and lead the league in goals, goals per games in the playoff winning 10 cup like Maurice Richard it would have been perceived differently.

Yes, no "adjusting" but I think people will naturally assume certain things like "ok, Red Kelly probably doesn't win 8 Cups in a later era". Oilers turned Rangers were last group of players to win a 5th or 6th Cup (31 years ago). Lidstrom and a few others came really close in 2009.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Red Kelly is an interesting example. He wouldn't win 8, but his equivalent is if Duncan Keith becomes the #2 centre for the late 10s Lightning. His extreme adaptability was unusual in the era too. And he repeatedly noted as a big plus even in the Detroit days.

A coach wouldn't allow it. But it is a conceivable path to 5 Cups.

It's the Henri Richard of 11 Cups on one team that is functionally impossible now.

 

[MadLuke]

Coffey was not that much better luck timing away of winning 9-10.

Stay one more year on the Oilers, with the 1992 pens and if he win it in 95 or 96 probably stay a Red Wings for a couple more of them.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Red Kelly is an interesting example. He wouldn't win 8, but his equivalent is if Duncan Keith becomes the #2 centre for the late 10s Lightning. His extreme adaptability was unusual in the era too. And he repeatedly noted as a big plus even in the Detroit days.

A coach wouldn't allow it. But it is a conceivable path to 5 Cups.

It's the Henri Richard of 11 Cups on one team that is functionally impossible now.

5 doesn't seem too "crazy" for reasons you mention (go from a 2/3 Cup winner to a 2/3 Cup winner), but even jumping good team to good team that's still basically the ultra-high end of the variance range (going from the most ideal team to be on to the new most ideal team to be on).

Kunitz is sole leader for salary cap era cups won with 4 (1 in Anaheim and then all 3 post-salary cap Penguin Cups). 119 total players in NHL history with 4+ Cups.

3 is a bit of a glass ceiling in the salary cap era otherwise - Sidney Crosby, Matt Cullen, Niklas Hjalmarsson, Marian Hossa, Patrick Kane, Duncan Keith, Kris Letang, Evgeni Malkin, Patrick Maroon, Alec Martinez, Brent Seabrook, Patrick Sharp, Jonathan Toews, Justin Williams. Three is a super common number in NHL history as is.

Zoom out a bit and Salary Cap Era, it basically look like the Cup just gets passed around to a random new team every year.

 

[MadLuke]

Easy to see Hossa having 3 more of them too, well maybe not maybe winnings with the super team that was building up in Ottawa (or the wings or the pens) cause the team and him to sign together.

Those trade cascades can be happening because it did not work, but he had quite the jumping from serious contender to contender streak.

Tampa Bay could have won 5 in a rows like in the old days, keeping their piece and making it work with the salary cap wise... but then again maybe they achieve to resign people between 2018 and 2021 that would have cost too much if they were 2-3 time cup winner that contender want to sign (like those Hawks player that became costly with the winning)

 

[The Panther]

I definitely think he was impacted by his 1987 knee injury. The contemporary reports seem to indicate so.

Yes, maybe. He certainly didn't drive the net as much after that (he was injured literally in the act of "going to the net" and scoring in Dec. '87).

However... that season he was at 2.26 PPG the moment he scored against Philly and was injured. After he came back (and got injured again, briefly -- this time his eye was clipped by Kurri's stick -- and then came back again), he was at (including playoffs) 2.36 PPG. So he scored points at a higher rate after the injury.

The next season in L.A., he scored 50 goals in his first 65 games, a higher pace than two of his last three seasons in Edmonton.

The two back injuries in April 1990 and the 'Suter-ing' in September 1991 took a major toll.

 

[Stockyard]

The Gretzky Brothers are the highest-scoring pair of brothers in the NHL.