Maybe Tavares is the problem

[notDatsyuk]

This is a great summation of where they are and how they put themselves in tough position.

The money the get from Tavares’ gets eaten up by current players ( Knies etc) or they create more holes.

If they don’t get anything for Marner and rely on Nylander and Matthews, I think the window never opens

Cap space for Marner might be the best option. At least we won't have to take back a bad contract or retain.

 

[notDatsyuk]

A 3C?

How is it this fanbase has so many people like this?

Yes, 3C's are normally top 40 in scoring for their position, positive 5v5 and nearly 60% in faceoffs.

Yes, he's declined from being a 1C, to a 2C, and is now overpaid... but a 3C? I think people need to pay attention to other teams, and what they have, because this regular take by many posters is beyond ridiculous.

You want Tavares gone, because you want a culture change... that's cool.
You hate his contract, because he's now overpaid.... that's cool
You claim he's a 3C.... Now, that's just silly and completely devoid of objectivity.

Tavares isn't getting traded... we all know that's not happening, so this fantasy stuff is also devoid of intellect.

..and if Tavares doesn't re-sign (hopefully for a reasonable amount $4 mil for example).... who is replacing him, and how are you getting that superior 2C....

By the way, go ahead, name that superior 2C, and how we are getting them... in fact, don't even try to counter this post, until you can name a superior 2C that we can afford on the cap, can obtain, and how we are going to do so.

Tavares is producing average second line numbers despite playing with a better than average top line player (according to stats you posted).

The post you quoted didn't say anything about trading him, and I don't think anyone really expects that. Signing him for $3-4 for a couple of years at 3C, and letting Nylander slot in at 2C, would probably be the best situation.

 

[WillyC]

being carried by 90 plus point wingers doesn't make you a 2nd line C , hopefully this is the last season i have to listen to people fluffing JT , this board has been making excuses for Tavares since literally his second season here and it's beyond tiring

yup trading Tavares is impossible yet trading Marner with the same nmc is easy peasey

I’m hoping he signs a team friendly retirement contract… just so I can continue being entertained with your constant whining.

 

[Arzak]

I’m hoping he signs a team friendly retirement contract… just so I can continue being entertained with your constant whining.

There is a team friendly contract and then there is the Leafs team-friendly contract. No number is big enough for Leafs nation, here we can call any overpayment team friendly or market at worse (remember, it's market value, RFA market just has to catch up).



Once the league catches up with Leafs, we'll be just fine.

 

[Bust]

Nylander is worse than Marner, that's his floor.

At this point Willy is the better player.

What Nylander did in Sweden was a higher display of superstardom than Marner has ever achieved.

Marner cannot tip the scales in a game like Nylander can and has for us.

 

[ACC1224]

At this point Willy is the better player.

What Nylander did in Sweden was a higher display of superstardom than Marner has ever achieved.

Marner cannot tip the scales in a game like Nylander can and has for us.

A few fans here certainly feel that way but I doubt very much that's the accepted view around the league.

In what most consider a bad year for Marner he had better stats than Nylander while being a better defensive player.

Nylander was good in Sweden though.

 

[notDatsyuk]

A few fans here certainly feel that way but I doubt very much that's the accepted view around the league.

In what most consider a bad year for Marner he had better stats than Nylander while being a better defensive player.

Nylander was good in Sweden though.

Willy had 50% more goals.

Mitch had 1 more assist, playing with a centre who had more than twice as many goals as Willy's.

Willy had more ES goals and points, more PP goals and points, more shorthanded goals and points, more overtime goals, and more GWGs.

Mitch, playing with a centre who is much better defensively, had a better +/- (which is frequently called the most useless stat). He had a marginally better ppg, and a higher p/60 5v5.

 

[ULF_55]

Last 5 years - Beginning of Prime Years for 3

Regular Season	Games	Goals	Assist	Points	Points GP	Goals GP	Assists GP
Auston Matthews	350​	257​	187​	444​	1.269​	0.734​	0.534​
Mitch Marner	335​	127​	288​	415​	1.239​	0.379​	0.860​
William Nylander	364​	162​	204​	366​	1.005​	0.445​	0.560​
John Tavares	358​	137​	194​	331​	0.925​	0.383​	0.542​
Playoffs	Games	Goals	Assists	Points	Points GP	Goals GP	Assists GP
Auston Matthews	35​	13​	22​	35​	1.000​	0.371​	0.629​
William Nylander	34​	17​	15​	32​	0.941​	0.500​	0.441​
Mitch Marner	37​	6​	27​	33​	0.892​	0.162​	0.730​
John Tavares	31​	10​	9​	19​	0.613​	0.323​	0.290​

 

[Bust]

A few fans here certainly feel that way but I doubt very much that's the accepted view around the league.

In what most consider a bad year for Marner he had better stats than Nylander while being a better defensive player.

Nylander was good in Sweden though.

Nylander reached higher peaks this season than Marner ever has here. Points aside.

I don’t really care what is accepted around the league, Nylander brings much more fight than Marner does for the Toronto maple leafs. That’s all that should matter.

 

[ACC1224]

Nylander reached higher peaks this season than Marner ever has here. Points aside.

I don’t really care what is accepted around the league, Nylander brings much more fight than Marner does for the Toronto maple leafs. That’s all that should matter.

You’re welcome to your opinion. It’s certainly unique

 

[ULF_55]

 

[Bust]

You’re welcome to your opinion. It’s certainly unique

Did you watch the playoffs when the games mattered? Nylander out preforms Marner when the pressure is on.

Marner is great at 2-4 point games during the regular season, on a Tuesday night against Chicago or minny. Nylander should be the go-to when the game actually matters.

And what’s your opinion on Marner vs Nylander?

 

[ULF_55]

 

[ULF_55]

 

[ULF_55]

If you're looking for one to leave ... pretty clear ... and he's UFA and won't be signing for 8 years.

 

[hotpaws]

I’m hoping he signs a team friendly retirement contract… just so I can continue being entertained with your constant whining.

I know it's not easy for a family member who's used to having Johnny never being held accountable for his play while his teammates get chucked under a bus to deflect criticism away from him but unfortunately we're not all his relatives .

but i have to know what a close relative like you believes is a team friendly contract (cap hit and term)

 

[WillyC]

I know it's not easy for a family member who's used to having Johnny never being held accountable for his play while his teammates get chucked under a bus to deflect criticism away from him but unfortunately we're not all a relative .

but i have to know what a close relative like you believes is a team friendly contract (cap hit and term)

Cap… I hope it’s low to help the Leafs.
Term… I hope it’s long to help fuel your whining.

 

[hotpaws]

Cap… I hope it’s low to help the Leafs.
Term… I hope it’s long to help fuel your whining.

can't give a number or term so basically if they re-sign him regardless of term/price you'll be on here saying he gave a team friendly deal and whining how everyone's being a meanie to poor Johnny as your trying to spin another overpayment as a discount

 

[Arzak]

Let JT go to UFA. We'll pay first for him next year for more leadership here.

 

[hamzarocks]

For D? Probably missing a top 4 RD (ha!)

Rielly-Tanev
McCabe-X
OEL-Hakanpaa
Benoit

I just used Suziki as an example of a good 2C playmaking centre making a decent 6-7ish million. We're going to need centres in the very near future, after this year under contract we have...

Matthews
X
X
Kampf (overpaid 4C)

Quillan and Minten in the system but who knows if they're ready.

We ideally would have McCabe P3 as I dont think hes reliable to be 2LHD consistently and doesmt have enough puck moving abilites vs strong forechecks (he f***ed u] badly in game 7 Boston goal 1 by oversktating/tripping on boards along with samsonsieve)

Ekholm or Hampus Lindholm at the 2LHd would have been the dream add along with a offensive PMD at 2RHD.

 

[hamzarocks]

A few fans here certainly feel that way but I doubt very much that's the accepted view around the league.

In what most consider a bad year for Marner he had better stats than Nylander while being a better defensive player.

Nylander was good in Sweden though.

nylander did come higher for all nhl team voting for RW coming 6th vs 7th for marner (hyman being ahead of both is a joke, and reinhart probably should have been behind both as well)

Marner does have 5 years of superior play then Nylander so hes still the better player entering this year.

Nylander though is at the pt where 98 pts and 3 pts in 4 playoff games will be viewed as a huge failure just like they were for marner in 2020 (93 pt pace, 4 in 5) 2021 (100 pt pace and 4 in 7)

His fans better be ready for him to face the pressure if he doesnt bring it 9 out of 10 games in the reg seasin and be expected to bring 100% of the time come playoffs like 16 and 34 are (they bring it a lot less than that but expectations are crazy high)

Nylander has lost the "but he tried and generated" card that he had at 7M.

 

[Antropovsky]

For those who continue to question playoff Matthews:

Probably higher than its ever been too... playing with Domi and Bert

 

[BrannigansLaw]

You’re welcome to your opinion. It’s certainly unique

Not unique at all. He does bring much more fight than Marner. Marner is mentally weak and plays his worst hockey as the stage gets brighter. Willy steps up when we need him while Mitch gets scared and folds.

 

[LeafEgo]

For those who continue to question playoff Matthews:

View attachment 897309


Probably higher than its ever been too... playing with Domi and Bert

Pretty good I guess, but he's no Evan Bouchard.

Matty is Matty in the playoffs. When he's on and focused he can play the tournament just fine. When he's off and the mojo dissappears he underproduces, and at times that's the difference in a game.

 

[Antropovsky]

Pretty good I guess, but he's no Evan Bouchard.

Matty is Matty in the playoffs. When he's on and focused he can play the tournament just fine. When he's off and the mojo dissappears he underproduces, and at times that's the difference in a game.