- Jul 30, 2016
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Maurice Richard Trophy Tournament (1995-Present) Round 1: 2022 Auston Matthews vs 2006 Jonathan Cheechoo
- Thread starter blundluntman
- Start date
You shouldn't be allowed to vote for Cheechoo here unless you provide your detailed analysis as to why
Pretty clear cut. More goals, fewer games, similar environment, no Thornton.
- Feb 10, 2010
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Playing fewer games doesn’t benefit the team, so I’m not sure why it would benefit a player in a comparison over which “season” was better.
Agree Matthews didn’t have a Thornton although his supporting cast was still pretty good.
I’m voting Matthews btw.
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If we were pacing seasons in order to put one ahead, I’d agree, but I think scoring the same or better in fewer games is more valuable, because someone is replacing your minutes in the other games and they might score more as well. Maybe not in an overall player comparison, because there’s other factors a player contributes to when in the lineup, but in terms of best goal scoring season, I think it does.
Presumably any replacing player would score some goals given the opportunity, making scoring the same amount of goals in lesser games more valuable in terms of increasing the total amount of goals scored for the team.
I could see there being some reasoning to having an elite player play through the entire season being equally valuable though. Consistently added value may be more valuable (though I'm not entirely sure about that, hard to prove except through simulations) and you could argue there's a certain threshold where you go above it it doesn't add as much value as you lose when you go below a certain level of performance. But with something as straigth up quantifiable as goals scored, I'm pretty sure that a player that scores say 60 goals in 70 games, with regards to their goalscoring, is clearly more valuable than a player that scores 60 goals in 82 games.
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Cheechoo has 7 goals in first 24 games. Also - going into game 25, he had and 8 game sreak of 0 goals.
On game 25 - Thornton arrived. Cheechoo scores 2 goals that first game, and 49 over final 58 games.
Matthews also started slow. 7 goals in 17 games. I think I remember he was injured at start of season? But I could be mixing up seasons.
On game 18 - he went on to start a streak of his own, 51 goals in 50 games. He then got injured again near end of that stretch - and finishes the year with 5 games in a row with 0 goals, before potting 2 in the final game.
In my opinion - Matthews definitely has the better goal-scoring season here. But it's also unfortunate - I feel as though injuries impeded him a lot. I think he could have pushed for close to ~65-70 without any injury that year.
On game 25 - Thornton arrived. Cheechoo scores 2 goals that first game, and 49 over final 58 games.
Matthews also started slow. 7 goals in 17 games. I think I remember he was injured at start of season? But I could be mixing up seasons.
On game 18 - he went on to start a streak of his own, 51 goals in 50 games. He then got injured again near end of that stretch - and finishes the year with 5 games in a row with 0 goals, before potting 2 in the final game.
In my opinion - Matthews definitely has the better goal-scoring season here. But it's also unfortunate - I feel as though injuries impeded him a lot. I think he could have pushed for close to ~65-70 without any injury that year.
- Feb 10, 2010
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Yeah, I agree but that's generally a replacement level player, as in, likely very low productivity. Or else other players are stretching their minutes beyond what the coaches thought optimal.
So...for no good reason then?
Well it’s more that everyone loves up so Matthews is out and the 13th guy comes in, but maybe Nylander gets more looks on the PP, or Marner plays more with Tavares who then does better, etc. I don’t think it’s a major factor here, I just think it’s hard to say a goal scoring season is better if it wasn’t more productive despite a few more games played. It would be different if Matthews had say 45 in 55 games or something, because it’s a better pace than Cheechoo but would involve projection
Video Nasty
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Voight
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- Apr 4, 2014
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Cheechoo played in the old NHL so obviously him by default, stats don't count post 2005
filinski77
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Stats:
Matthews beats him in raw goals, goals/gp, adjusted, and dominance vs. peers. This is cut and dry.
Matthews beats him in raw goals, goals/gp, adjusted, and dominance vs. peers. This is cut and dry.
| Cheechoo | Matthews | |
| Goals | 56 | 60 |
| Goals/gp | 0.68 | 0.82 |
| Adj goals | 56 | 58 |
| Vs 2nd | 4% | 9% |
| Vs 5th | 12% | 28% |
| Vs 10th | 40% | 43% |
| Vs 20th | 60% | 62% |
filinski77
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Side note: Why are 2014 and 2009 Ovechkin going up against each other? Those are both arguably top-10 goal scoring seasons from this time period.
- Jul 30, 2016
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I tend to pit the same players' seasons against each other in earlier rounds when they take up a large number of slots. Sometimes that leads to two highly regarded seasons taking one another out but he has plenty of good years to choose from.
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