blundluntman
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- Jul 30, 2016
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Maurice Richard Trophy Tournament (1995-Present) Final Round: 2012 Steven Stamkos vs 2008 Alexander Ovechkin
- Thread starter blundluntman
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Ovechkin
For what it's worth - I'd have had Stamkos 4th, behind both Matthews 2024 and Lemieux 96, so this is an easy matchup for me.
As for Ovechkin - not sure if I'd have him #1, but at least he's in the running.
For what it's worth - I'd have had Stamkos 4th, behind both Matthews 2024 and Lemieux 96, so this is an easy matchup for me.
As for Ovechkin - not sure if I'd have him #1, but at least he's in the running.
I think Lemieux 96 would be my #1. I was going to make a pitch for Lemieux > Ovechkin in round 3, but by the time I saw the thread the voting was already lopsided so I didn't bother.
Also - I'd have liked to dig a bit deeper into Matthews 2024 vs Ovechkin 2008 if that had been head to head. I'm leaning towards Ovi being ahead, but I would have enjoyed the comparison.
Nothing against Stamkos 2012 really - a fantastic season, but he's definitely my #4. So it's a less compelling matchup for me is all.
TheStatican
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- Mar 14, 2012
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Same. The problem is recency bias, most of the voters were probably still in diapers in '96. It's difficult to try to convince someone of something they haven't seen in person, not worth the time to bother with it.
filinski77
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- Feb 12, 2017
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Voted Ovi.
Raw goals: 65>60 -> OVI
Adjusted goals: Ovi higher (72 to 68 per HR). Pretty negligible difference since league-wide goals were 2.78 vs. 2.73 (in Ovi's favor). Overall results show that league-wide scoring was essentially the same. #20 and #30 goal-scorers scored essentially the exact same.
Dominance vs. peers: Pretty close overall, Ovi with the stronger domination vs. #2, #20, #30. Stamkos more dominant vs #3 and #5. #10 is close enough with a 4% swing that I'm not bothered.
Even-strength scoring: As noted earlier, I'm not bothered at all by ESG vs PPG, you need them all to win. But for anyone who wants to use ESG as a deciding factor (and ignore the overall goals), worth noting that Ovechkin and Stamkos were both a huge step above the league in Even-strength scoring.
Vs #2 essentially a wash. Vs. #3/5/10 Stamkos is definitely ahead, but Ovechkin pulls ahead when comparing #20 (small) and #30. Morale of the story being that it appears even-strength scoring was actually ~10% higher it looks like in 2012, so it's pretty close to even (even if slightly in Stamkos favor).
Raw goals: 65>60 -> OVI
Adjusted goals: Ovi higher (72 to 68 per HR). Pretty negligible difference since league-wide goals were 2.78 vs. 2.73 (in Ovi's favor). Overall results show that league-wide scoring was essentially the same. #20 and #30 goal-scorers scored essentially the exact same.
Dominance vs. peers: Pretty close overall, Ovi with the stronger domination vs. #2, #20, #30. Stamkos more dominant vs #3 and #5. #10 is close enough with a 4% swing that I'm not bothered.
| Ovi | 65 | Stamkos | 60 | ||
| #2 | 52 | 25% | #2 | 50 | 20% |
| #3 | 50 | 30% | #3 | 41 | 46% |
| #5 | 43 | 51% | #5 | 38 | 58% |
| #10 | 40 | 63% | #10 | 36 | 67% |
| #20 | 32 | 103% | #20 | 31 | 94% |
| #30 | 29 | 124% | #30 | 30 | 100% |
Even-strength scoring: As noted earlier, I'm not bothered at all by ESG vs PPG, you need them all to win. But for anyone who wants to use ESG as a deciding factor (and ignore the overall goals), worth noting that Ovechkin and Stamkos were both a huge step above the league in Even-strength scoring.
Vs #2 essentially a wash. Vs. #3/5/10 Stamkos is definitely ahead, but Ovechkin pulls ahead when comparing #20 (small) and #30. Morale of the story being that it appears even-strength scoring was actually ~10% higher it looks like in 2012, so it's pretty close to even (even if slightly in Stamkos favor).
| Ovi | 43 | Stamkos | 48 | ||
| #2 | 35 | 23% | #2 | 38 | 26% |
| #3 | 34 | 26% | #3 | 31 | 55% |
| #5 | 30 | 43% | #5 | 28 | 71% |
| #10 | 24 | 79% | #10 | 25 | 92% |
| #20 | 21 | 105% | #20 | 24 | 100% |
| #30 | 19 | 126% | #30 | 22 | 118% |
filinski77
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- Feb 12, 2017
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Here you go: Pretty easily Ovechkin imo. Even if Matthews season is still close and an all-time season.
Raw goals: Matthews 69>65
Adjusted goals: Ovi 72>68 using HR. Using the numbers below with elite-player scoring (which HR does not factor in), scoring in 2024 was up by about 14-15% for elite players. Would adjust Ovi to 74 goals vs. Matthews 69.
Dominance vs peers: Easy Ovi. He is clearly ahead here.
| Ovi | 65 | Matthews | 69 | ||
| #2 | 52 | 25% | #2 | 57 | 21% |
| #3 | 50 | 30% | #3 | 54 | 28% |
| #5 | 43 | 51% | #5 | 49 | 41% |
| #10 | 40 | 63% | #10 | 44 | 57% |
| #20 | 32 | 103% | #20 | 37 | 86% |
| #30 | 29 | 124% | #30 | 33 | 109% |
Even-strength scoring: Once again, not anything I care much about, but Ovechkin's season was just as good even-strength wise as Matthews season was. Simply the ESG's were up by about 20-25% in 2024 compared to 2008.
| Ovi | 43 | Matthews | 51 | ||
| #2 | 35 | 23% | #2 | 41 | 24% |
| #3 | 34 | 26% | #3 | 39 | 31% |
| #5 | 30 | 43% | #5 | 35 | 46% |
| #10 | 24 | 79% | #10 | 31 | 65% |
| #20 | 21 | 105% | #20 | 25 | 104% |
| #30 | 19 | 126% | #30 | 24 | 113% |
Teammate support: Matthews simply had significantly more elite support.
| Ovechkin | 112 | Matthews | 107 | 107 |
| Backstrom | 69 | Nylander | 98 | 98 |
| Green | 56 | Marner | 85 | 85 |
| Kozlov | 54 | Tavares | 65 | 65 |
Very close seasons, statistically Stamkos looks as good as Ovechkin.
But in 2011/12 Stamkos had MSL, who was still good enough to win Art Ross in a weak year (which actually happened in the following season). Ovechkin in 2007/08 was a one-man show, his linemates were Victor Kozlov and rookie Backstrom.
But in 2011/12 Stamkos had MSL, who was still good enough to win Art Ross in a weak year (which actually happened in the following season). Ovechkin in 2007/08 was a one-man show, his linemates were Victor Kozlov and rookie Backstrom.
