TSN: Matthew Knies isn’t really interested in entertaining an offer sheet this summer. That’s not something he or his agent are pursuing

[Leafshater67]

Effective, cost controlled depth wins championships.

You don't let a superstar walk so you can go overpay a bunch of 4th liners and complimentary pieces.

You’re not wrong there but a front loaded team generally never wins and Toronto has been a massive example of that.

That being said, Marner looks like a different player under Berube. He’s answered a lot of questions these playoffs and if they can get him for say 12.5, it makes sense. Depends if he’s still worried about max dollar or not I guess and what Tavares and Knies are willing to do.

 

[dgibb10]

You’re not wrong there but a front loaded team generally never wins and Toronto has been a massive example of that.

That being said, Marner looks like a different player under Berube. He’s answered a lot of questions these playoffs and if they can get him for say 12.5, it makes sense. Depends if he’s still worried about max dollar or not I guess and what Tavares and Knies are willing to do.

Front loaded teams win all the time.

But it requires the lower end guys to get hot at the right time, at which point said depth will retroactively become overrated and they were actually elite depth all along.

It's circular logic.

You need good depth to win, yes.

But you don't get there by spending the most money on your depth and giving up on top end talent to do it. (because depth pieces are inconsistent, don't age well, etc so trying to just spend big there gets you bad contracts).

You get your depth from finding undervalued cheap guys who fit, or ELCs (like Knies as a complimentary winger to 2 superstars on an ELC), or taking chances on risky guys again for cheap and hoping they pan out (like Patches for TO this year).

If you're smart as a GM you can find a 4 mill type guy for 2, or a 3 mill type guy for 1, or whatever. Undervalued guys are available every offseason. You can't simply just get a Mitch Marner.

 

[Leaf Fans]

But no team is going to make that type of offer sheet.

The good teams likely don't have the cap space to do it.

The bad teams aren't going to do because they aren't going to give away a 2026 1st not with Gavin Meckenna sitting there.

No chance.

Yeah.

 

[Quatre Vingt Treize]

I don’t think you are getting the concept of rfa vs ufa . There is an extremely small chance he reaches July 1 st without a deal and an even smaller chance he’d sign an offer sheet from the Habs . Sorry to burst the bubble as they are already working on / close to a deal as we sit today reputedly

Knies be an idiot not to wait until July 1. Going to be tons of caproom available. He make tons more.

We could offer sheet Cuylie at fraction of costs. Say 6m instead of Knies 11m. Cuylie going to be a hell of a player also. Similar player/numbers to Knies.

 

[Leafshater67]

Front loaded teams win all the time.

But it requires the lower end guys to get hot at the right time, at which point said depth will retroactively become overrated and they were actually elite depth all along.

It's circular logic.

You need good depth to win, yes.

But you don't get there by spending the most money on your depth and giving up on top end talent to do it. (because depth pieces are inconsistent, don't age well, etc so trying to just spend big there gets you bad contracts).

You get your depth from finding undervalued cheap guys who fit, or ELCs (like Knies as a complimentary winger to 2 superstars on an ELC), or taking chances on risky guys again for cheap and hoping they pan out (like Patches for TO this year).

If you're smart as a GM you can find a 4 mill type guy for 2, or a 3 mill type guy for 1, or whatever. Undervalued guys are available every offseason. You can't simply just get a Mitch Marner.

Before Eichel won it, no team ever won a cup with a skater making more than 9.5m and the leafs had 3x players making 11ish at that same time. Yeah, you need superstars but you also need to fill an entire roster up.

They’ve obviously found more of a balance and filled key roles, mostly on the blueline now and the cap has gone up so it’s not a great comparison but literally every year the leafs failed because they spent all their cap on the core 4.

I don’t want Marner to go but if he demands 14m and won’t take less, it’s probably for the best he leaves. I’d never forgive him if he did and they had to let Knies walk because of it. I’m a huge Knies fan but I have no idea what they should pay for him. I hope it’s no more than 8

 

[HockeyVirus]

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The math on that is 3 mill to fill 3 roster spots, one of which being a point per game C.

You quoted me saying to trade Kampf and Jarnkrok and literally have Jarnkrok on line 3 and Kampf on line 4 lol. And you have Reaves on the NHL roster who was already on the Marlies all year costing 200k in cap instead of 1.3.

The real math is 9+ million for 5 spots (or 10M if they don't carry an extra roster forward like Voit), with the MASSIVE assumption Knies is getting 9M which you just pulled out of no where and assume is his cost. The Leafs can bridge him if they need to.

And they have a bunch of NHL ready prospects and can sign cheaper free agents for forward depth if needed.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Knies be an idiot not to wait until July 1. Going to be tons of caproom available. He make tons more.

We could offer sheet Cuylie at fraction of costs. Say 6m instead of Knies 11m. Cuylie going to be a hell of a player also. Similar player/numbers to Knies.

Believe it or not, not every player is interested in how they can screw over the Leafs the most. There are more players in the NHL who are happy to take a "fair" deal than mercenary for top dollar.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

Knies be an idiot not to wait until July 1. Going to be tons of caproom available. He make tons more.

We could offer sheet Cuylie at fraction of costs. Say 6m instead of Knies 11m. Cuylie going to be a hell of a player also. Similar player/numbers to Knies.

So why go after Knies if Cuyle can be had at roughly half the cost . Neither will go anywhere as young pf are some of the highest valued assets in hockey. Just pipe dreams . He’s going to get his riding shotgun w the big boyz. Bridge around 6 or long term 8 ish imo. Worst case you file for arbitration making him ineligible for an offer sheet. Any which way you slice it he’s going nowhere

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

Believe it or not, not every player is interested in how they can screw over the Leafs the most. There are more players in the NHL who are happy to take a "fair" deal than mercenary for top dollar.

To be fair not many play for Toronto

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

I get the feeling Knies turns heel on the core 4 and takes a sick hometown discount , becomes mayor of the city and loved by all. Much to my chagrin

 

[HockeyVirus]

To be fair not many play for Toronto

Leafs have had many many players take less. The only two who haven't are Marner and Matthews

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

Leafs have had many many players take less. The only two who haven't are Marner and Matthews

The big 4 all took Market deals( Tavares maybe had a 13 mil offer from San Jose but this hasn’t been truly confirmed far as I know/ plus it’s San Jose ) . Guys like Spezza and Gio took hair cuts but they were so far past it by then that it wasn’t as significant as it could have been .

 

[Doublechin]

Believe it or not, not every player is interested in how they can screw over the Leafs the most. There are more players in the NHL who are happy to take a "fair" deal than mercenary for top dollar.

Lol

This isn't screwing your team but getting max value, he'll definitely get teams absolutely overpaying for him if he's RFA on July 1st

His agent can't be dumb

 

[HockeyVirus]

The big 4 all took Market deals( Tavares maybe had a 13 mil offer from San Jose but this hasn’t been truly confirmed far as I know/ plus it’s San Jose ) . Guys like Spezza and Gio took hair cuts but they were so far past it by then that it wasn’t as significant as it could have been .

Nylander was making 6.9 until last season and his 11.5 is going to quickly become a steal with the rising cap. Rielly has fallen off but at the time could very easily have gotten more than 7M on the open market as a top pairing D coming off a great season and playoff. Tavares literally was offered 13M by Sharks and Islanders as you pointed out.

Lots of vets took less as you said, and many other players came super cheap over the years. Really the Leafs did not have a lot of chances to sign big contracts since the flat cap hit so not like they have a ton of examples to pull from, but the only players who haven't shown willingness to make things work are Marner and Matthews.

I am certain if they signed Marner for 13M and then said to Knies and JT "We have 10M to sign both of you" they would make it work. Even if that meant giving Tavares more term than you like and briding Knies.

Knies isn't going to be like "nah FU blow up the team" especially if they go really deep this year

Lol

This isn't screwing your team but getting max value, he'll definitely get teams absolutely overpaying for him if he's RFA on July 1st

His agent can't be dumb

More examples of players making it work for their team throughout the league than what you said

 

[Doublechin]

Nylander was making 6.9 until last season and his 11.5 is going to quickly become a steal with the rising cap. Rielly has fallen off but at the time could very easily have gotten more than 7M on the open market as a top pairing D coming off a great season and playoff. Tavares literally was offered 13M by Sharks and Islanders as you pointed out.

Lots of vets took less as you said, and many other players came super cheap over the years. Really the Leafs did not have a lot of chances to sign big contracts since the flat cap hit so not like they have a ton of examples to pull from, but the only players who haven't shown willingness to make things work are Marner and Matthews.

I am certain if they signed Marner for 13M and then said to Knies and JT "We have 10M to sign both of you" they would make it work. Even if that meant giving Tavares more term than you like and briding Knies.

Knies isn't going to be like "nah FU blow up the team" especially if they go really deep this year



More examples of players making it work for their team throughout the league than what you said

I get it, agents do know that salaries are about to sky rocket and their job is to maximize every penny their clients make

I get the friendly terms but the difference here could be from 8 to 11.5

 

[Leaf Fans]

Knies be an idiot not to wait until July 1. Going to be tons of caproom available. He make tons more.

We could offer sheet Cuylie at fraction of costs. Say 6m instead of Knies 11m. Cuylie going to be a hell of a player also. Similar player/numbers to Knies.

There are a lot of players who are idiots who sign before they reach free agency. Take Suzukl from Montreal for example idiots who didn't wait.

 

[leafsfan2point0]

Nylander was making 6.9 until last season and his 11.5 is going to quickly become a steal with the rising cap. Rielly has fallen off but at the time could very easily have gotten more than 7M on the open market as a top pairing D coming off a great season and playoff. Tavares literally was offered 13M by Sharks and Islanders as you pointed out.

Lots of vets took less as you said, and many other players came super cheap over the years. Really the Leafs did not have a lot of chances to sign big contracts since the flat cap hit so not like they have a ton of examples to pull from, but the only players who haven't shown willingness to make things work are Marner and Matthews.

I am certain if they signed Marner for 13M and then said to Knies and JT "We have 10M to sign both of you" they would make it work. Even if that meant giving Tavares more term than you like and briding Knies.

Knies isn't going to be like "nah FU blow up the team" especially if they go really deep this year



More examples of players making it work for their team throughout the league than what you said

This. I can honestly see Tavares going for something like the Tanev contract 6years x $4.5 or the McCabe contract with deferred money. All 3 should be back with relative ease especially after trading Jarnkrok and Kampfs $4.5M.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

This. I can honestly see Tavares going for something like the Tanev contract 6years x $4.5 or the McCabe contract with deferred money. All 3 should be back with relative ease especially after trading Jarnkrok and Kampfs $4.5M.

I could see Tavares doing something like this as well ( as alluded to in prior posts ) . What I also find funny is there was a preseason thread asking which player would teams rather have ; Wallsteadt or Knies . The overwhelming majority were saying Wallsteadt ( who could still end up being good but I assume if the poll was current the results are likely much different) . Pretty interesting as you now have several saying they’d go to 11 plus for him ..

 

[stats1]

I'm genuinely curious how removing a guy making 2.1 mill a year (who then has to be replaced with another player) saves 4 million dollars

Sorry I didn’t look at his actual cap hit. I assumed he was in that range

 

[stats1]

I'm genuinely curious how removing a guy making 2.1 mill a year (who then has to be replaced with another player) saves 4 million dollars

My point being there is fat to trim, they could move off of Kampf, Jarnkrok, get Tavares to take a big cut and it would enough savings to keep Knies in the fold.

 

[Quatre Vingt Treize]

Believe it or not, not every player is interested in how they can screw over the Leafs the most. There are more players in the NHL who are happy to take a "fair" deal than mercenary for top dollar.

That's going to be quite a difference in money. Knies will get 10+ million if he gets to to RFA.

 

[HockeyVirus]

That's going to be quite a difference in money. Knies will get 10+ million if he gets to to RFA.

Ok come on now lmao

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Ok come on now lmao

He will sign for like 8 and the same people will turn around and say he is over paid and over rated lol

 

[HockeyVirus]

He will sign for like 8 and the same people will turn around and say he is over paid and over rated lol

I think most fans respect the hell out of Knies and know he is legit. Especially those who watch him for the first time in the playoffs and realizing Leaf fans weren't exaggerating.

Theres a reason this thread exploded with folks saying he is getting 9-10 million in the last 10 days haha

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I think most fans respect the hell out of Knies and know he is legit. Especially those who watch him for the first time in the playoffs and realizing Leaf fans weren't exaggerating.

Theres a reason this thread exploded with folks saying he is getting 9-10 million in the last 10 days haha

Never count out people's ability to turn face. I guarantee in the thread for his extension with the Leafs there will be multiple people talking about how over paid he is lol