Player Discussion Matthew Knies | Built for the Playoffs

[DragoGrizzly]

Yup some of the numbers being thrown out are insane. I love Knies, he’s quickly becoming my favourite Leaf, but I don’t think he’s ever going to be of a star calibre where he can drive his own line. He’s more of a Tom Wilson type, a complementary player to the stars. You don’t throw stupid money at players like that.

 

[Aashir]

Yup some of the numbers being thrown out are insane. I love Knies, he’s quickly becoming my favourite Leaf, but I don’t think he’s ever going to be of a star calibre where he can drive his own line. He’s more of a Tom Wilson type, a complementary player to the stars. You don’t throw stupid money at players like that.

and if he is, then he's gonna have to wait until the UFA deal to get paid as a leaf

no way am i paying him a a dollar over 7.5x8, or 6x5, or 4.5x3

The RFA years are where the team are supposed to benefit from the players contract, not the other way around like weve been historically been doing.

 

[DragoGrizzly]

and if he is, then he's gonna have to wait until the UFA deal to get paid as a leaf

no way am i paying him a a dollar over 7.5x8, or 6x5, or 4.5x3

The RFA years are where the team are supposed to benefit from the players contract, not the other way around like weve been historically been doing.

This 1000%. I’m so tired of the Leafs paying more for their players than other teams pay for their comparable players. Can’t do that and win a cup.

 

[MCR74]

And the Leafs enable it. They should have sent a message long ago when Nylander held out for 2 months.
They just keep losing the negotiations.

Exactly. Nylander wants to sit out? then sit. And that goes for the rest of you.

 

[notbias]

And the Leafs enable it. They should have sent a message long ago when Nylander held out for 2 months.
They just keep losing the negotiations.

Exactly. Nylander wants to sit out? then sit. And that goes for the rest of you.

Nylander caved... what were they supposed to do? Tell him now that he is accepting their offer, they have changed their offer?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Exactly. Nylander wants to sit out? then sit. And that goes for the rest of you.

And Nylander was in the complicated situation where he wasn't able to be offer sheeted.

So his literal choices was playing for whatever Dubas offers him, or for peanuts in like Switzerland or something.

This was TOP TO BOTTOM complete leverage by the Dubas/Shanahan team. Nylander had no cards. None. If Dubas said "6.5x8 take it or leave it" and didn't budge, Nylander LITERALLY had no other alternative. There was no negotiation here. We owned his rights. He can accept what we offer, or not.

And Dubas caved to giving Nylander the Pastrank contract PLUS inflation PLUS way more front loading, PLUS more in signing bonuses, PLUS one less year of nmc. Pastrnak was a proven (paced) 38 goal 70 point player, while Nylander was (lol) 20 goal, 60 points.

This was it. This is what ruined EVERYTHING.

Matthews and Marner saw Dubas cave to this and thought "He didn't even have offer sheet leverage". The rest is history.

 

[Aashir]

Nylander caved... what were they supposed to do? Tell him now that he is accepting their offer, they have changed their offer?

he "caved" to a deal that:
- Paid him more than Ehlers in total
- Paid him more in the first year (by a ton)
- Paid him more each year
- Signed for a season less

The offer should've been 6.5x8 or have fun in sweden. We had an 18-8 record which was good for 2nd in the league for point percentage.

Marner had 36 in 26
Kapanen had 18 in 26 which was nearly what nylander gave us, and that was with 14 games of missing 34.
Old Man Marleau was producing somewhat ok too with 15 in 26

We didn't need Nylander, he needed us and the deal should've been 100% undoubtably, unequivocally in our favour.

Instead he "caved" to a player friendly deal, then that just means Dubas set a horrible offer on the table.

 

[Leafsfan74]

And the Leafs enable it. They should have sent a message long ago when Nylander held out for 2 months.
They just keep losing the negotiations.

I was once again on an island during that negotiation when he say out and said "I'd trade Nylander for a stud D Man" when he was holding out (only to sign at the 11th hour) The experts on certain media outlets said "the worst thing they can do is let him sit out a year!".

Really? No, the worse thing they could and DID do, was give in and overpay him. If he wanted to go hang out in Sweden for a year so be it. I've never seen a franchise so eager to bend to players demands.


Nothing against the guy, but they needed to set the bar immediately.

This franchise needs some pride and swagger again, this is the Toronto Maple Leafs, they don't NEED to convince anyone to come here. It's the centre of the hockey universe,

Would the Habs or Bruins overpay a player because they feel that player is doing them such a big favour by playing for them? No way in hell.

"We are the Toronto Maple Leafs, go sign in Seattle or Utah if you want to get paid and play in obscurity, we want winners here willing to take the attention." Leafs should only want players who want to be here, want to be in the fishbowl and all that it provides. You want to be the lead singer in a rock band or play flute in the local marching band?


I like Knies and I hope he really wants to be here with a long term view of his career. Take it from a corporate guy who made mistakes going for the cash in past situations rather than following my manager when they wanted me. The situation which would have paid me far more (and I'd be more happy)in the long run if I had stuck with a winning manager.

I'm not overpaying for anyone who doesn't have a Cup ring on their resume or at very least a strong playoff resume. Knies has an opportunity here. If someone offer sheets him, Leafs have to consider the return because with so few draft picks, they can turn these into gold at the deadline.

 

[notbias]

he "caved" to a deal that:
- Paid him more than Ehlers in total
- Paid him more in the first year (by a ton)
- Paid him more each year
- Signed for a season less

The offer should've been 6.5x8 or have fun in sweden. We had an 18-8 record which was good for 2nd in the league for point percentage.

Marner had 36 in 26
Kapanen had 18 in 26 which was nearly what nylander gave us, and that was with 14 games of missing 34.
Old Man Marleau was producing somewhat ok too with 15 in 26

We didn't need Nylander, he needed us and the deal should've been 100% undoubtably, unequivocally in our favour.

Instead he "caved" to a player friendly deal, then that just means Dubas set a horrible offer on the table.

He caved to a fair deal that aged very well and was in line with Ehlers'..... but okay.

 

[Sammy Kat]

The complete moron Dubas is thank God long gone so I am much less worried about a bad contract for Knies.
Where we are instead of what could have been falls on that useless fool.
I have confidence Tree will work out something fair and we will be happy.

 

[Trapper]

I was once again on an island during that negotiation when he say out and said "I'd trade Nylander for a stud D Man" when he was holding out (only to sign at the 11th hour) The experts on certain media outlets said "the worst thing they can do is let him sit out a year!".

Really? No, the worse thing they could and DID do, was give in and overpay him. If he wanted to go hang out in Sweden for a year so be it. I've never seen a franchise so eager to bend to players demands.


Nothing against the guy, but they needed to set the bar immediately.

This franchise needs some pride and swagger again, this is the Toronto Maple Leafs, they don't NEED to convince anyone to come here. It's the centre of the hockey universe,

Would the Habs or Bruins overpay a player because they feel that player is doing them such a big favour by playing for them? No way in hell.

"We are the Toronto Maple Leafs, go sign in Seattle or Utah if you want to get paid and play in obscurity, we want winners here willing to take the attention." Leafs should only want players who want to be here, want to be in the fishbowl and all that it provides. You want to be the lead singer in a rock band or play flute in the local marching band?


I like Knies and I hope he really wants to be here with a long term view of his career. Take it from a corporate guy who made mistakes going for the cash in past situations rather than following my manager when they wanted me. The situation which would have paid me far more (and I'd be more happy)in the long run if I had stuck with a winning manager.

I'm not overpaying for anyone who doesn't have a Cup ring on their resume or at very least a strong playoff resume. Knies has an opportunity here. If someone offer sheets him, Leafs have to consider the return because with so few draft picks, they can turn these into gold at the deadline.

Many people were calling for moving Nylander back then in a deal with Carolina at the time for a Necas/Pesce/draft pick.
This would have also allowed us to keep Marleau for a 3rd year and the 1st rounder.
We might not be at this point with Marner as well.
This team could be looking at Matthews /Marner/Knies/Necas/Pesce/maybe Jarvis with the pick/the ability to have re-signed Hyman without 4 forwards taking half the cap.
It’s not hindsight either when people have been screaming 4 forwards half the cap for years.
Trying to change it now with Marner walking, no draft picks, limited trade assets Matthews taking 4 years, the NMC and Knies possibly asking for a Marleau like deal and high dollar is too little too late.

 

[Leafsfan74]

Many people were calling for moving Nylander back then in a deal with Carolina at the time for a Necas/Pesce/draft pick.
This would have also allowed us to keep Marleau for a 3rd year and the 1st rounder.
We might not be at this point with Marner as well.
This team could be looking at Matthews /Marner/Knies/Necas/Pesce/maybe Jarvis with the pick/the ability to have re-signed Hyman without 4 forwards taking half the cap.
It’s not hindsight either when people have been screaming 4 forwards half the cap for years.
Trying to change it now with Marner walking, no draft picks, limited trade assets Matthews taking 4 years, the NMC and Knies possibly asking for a Marleau like deal and high dollar is too little too late.

As much as some think the sky is falling, myself included at times, there is alot to be optimistic about if the Leafs focus on the right guys and stop feeling the need to overpay for every player.

You can build a team of committed cast offs if they have heart. Remember Vegas in year one?

Nothing matters more in the playoffs than heart. Just a will to give it all when it gets difficult. I've seen it for decades, guys who become a different breed once playoffs begin. They live for the moments.

They have some guys with a presence, even a bit of swagger. McCabe, Benoit love to hit and play with jam. Tanev is a complete warrior who will block with his face. Lorentz and Laughton WANT to be Leafs and they play with conviction. If they keep Knies and McMann plays heavier they have a formidable group returning.

I bring Patches back as he wants to win and is a presence when the ice disappears. You just need a couple of additional serious Gamers to replace what is leaving and we can see a forward group who will sacrifice to win and who WANT to be in the spotlight. It doesn't have to be in Year One of them leaving, target a Two Year plan, I don't give a damn how much the sports media want them to overpay.

Don't tell me guys with heart can't show up for the big games. You don't need multiple big sexy pick ups, just one or two will do.

To me, I'd be happy with more Laughton/Lorentz types for depth on the bottom six. Get one or two big names. If they pay a Ekblad I sit Rielly as a #7 if he doesn't want to waive. This is how you deal with the NMC if he doesn't want to be reasonable.

Build a team based on merit and sacrifice. I don't care for these sports experts who fall in love with players because they know them off the ice or maybe they signed a stick for their kids or something. Management needs to shut out the noise more than the players. Look at the team objectively not because some guy in sports media tells you that Marner is the next Gretzky. Let some other team pay $14M this experiment has run its course.

Their D is near top of the league as far as I am concerned in terms of being playoff suitable. Ekblad would be a nice pickup. In fact, if they add the depth needed, this team can beat the Panthers with the way their D is set up, especially if Stolie plays as he can.

Leafs almost beat this team with the same group that failed over and over. New D, new coach. Build on that and don't feel the need to go right to the cap (unless its one year deals), save something for next years crop.