Confirmed with Link: Matt Greene on Waivers for Buyout

[go4hockey]

...plz don't sign polak...Or Schenn...

...plz don't sign polak...Or Schenn...

...plz don't sign polak...Or Schenn...

Would much rather have Polak than Scheen. Scheen is lost defensively and most times puts himself in the wrong position defensively or puts his back side in Quick's face and is a great screen.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Lombardi learned a hard lesson here, while it is noble to be loyal to the team that won you two Cups, it is better to retain your top players and make some sacrifices in order to remain on top. See: the Chicago Blackhawks.

They really haven't quite done that though. They won in 2010 with Kane and Toews still on their ELC's. Cap crunch came, they went out in the 1st round for two years. They had their success between 2013 and 2015 with Kane and Toews on their 2nd contracts. Another cap crunch came, they were a 1 line team with 3 defensemen this year, and they went out in the 1st round. The difference between the Kings and Hawks is that the Hawks went as far as they did in 2009 and 2010 with Kane and Toews so young and cheap.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

They really haven't quite done that though. They won in 2010 with Kane and Toews still on their ELC's. Cap crunch came, they went out in the 1st round for two years. They had their success between 2013 and 2015 with Kane and Toews on their 2nd contracts. Another cap crunch came, they were a 1 line team with 3 defensemen this year, and they went out in the 1st round. The difference between the Kings and Hawks is that the Hawks went as far as they did in 2009 and 2010 with Kane and Toews so young and cheap.

They also lost a lot of talent in between their Cup wins, added new players, and still won a 3rd Cup.

 

[ScoreZeGoals]

Great guy
Will never forget what he did to help bring a championship
He should have never been re-signed

 

[Keith Sweaty]

I will miss his "punch-check"

 

[AlphaBravo]

Schenn actually was not that bad. The problem was we had too many Schenns in the lineup. I think if we were somehow able to get a top 4 (say, someone like Hammhuis), I would rather have Schenn on the bottom pairing than McNabb. A Schenn-Gravel bottom pair would be nice (one physical, one mobile).

 

[Trolfoli]

**** it Lombardi... You're ****ing killing me. I'm fighting pain and nausea to get hockey updates and this is what you give me. I'm taking it personally!!!

Going to miss Greene "holding the puck in" on the blue line, where he skates down the ice with his stick up like a tomahawk to crush someone.

Anyone else think the D is getting a little soft at this point?

 

[KingsFan7824]

They also lost a lot of talent in between their Cup wins, added new players, and still won a 3rd Cup.

Yes, because Kane and Toews were so young and cheap for their 1st Cup. They've had 2 cap purges, and won 2 Cups after their first one. We don't know how rare that is yet, or if it's rare, because the cap hasn't been around that long, but that 2010 Cup was a luxury. Their trip to the 3rd round in 2009 was 2 years after they won the lottery, after finishing with the 5th worst record, to draft Kane. That's an incredible turnaround. Aided by adding Toews at the same time, even though he was drafted a year earlier than Kane.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

**** it Lombardi... You're ****ing killing me. I'm fighting pain and nausea to get hockey updates and this is what you give me. I'm taking it personally!!!

Going to miss Greene "holding the puck in" on the blue line, where he skates down the ice with his stick up like a tomahawk to crush someone.

Anyone else think the D is getting a little soft at this point?

Yes.

But it's very hard to have it both ways. Not a lot of D in this league that can play at a high level AND be crushers.

Considering this board wants more mobility, guys like Greene are on their way out...so if I now start seeing complaints about losing Greene after hearing how slow/unskilled our back end is...

But if they let Greene go and sign Polak or Schenn, again, I will lose my lunch.

 

[Trolfoli]

Yes.

But it's very hard to have it both ways. Not a lot of D in this league that can play at a high level AND be crushers.

Considering this board wants more mobility, guys like Greene are on their way out...so if I now start seeing complaints about losing Greene after hearing how slow/unskilled our back end is...

But if they let Greene go and sign Polak or Schenn, again, I will lose my lunch.

Wait... What? I can't have it both ways?

It would be nice to see a more mobile D, but at the cost of smash mouth hockey? That's a tough pill to swallow.

Really not interested in Schenn/Polak at this point. They didn't do much in the playoffs. If Greene gets bought out and replaced with someone more mobile fine. Just don't replace him with someone just as slow and worse at actually defending.

 

[bob77]

Would much rather have Polak than Scheen. Scheen is lost defensively and most times puts himself in the wrong position defensively or puts his back side in Quick's face and is a great screen.

Luke Screen

 

[bob77]

**** it Lombardi... You're ****ing killing me. I'm fighting pain and nausea to get hockey updates and this is what you give me. I'm taking it personally!!!

Going to miss Greene "holding the puck in" on the blue line, where he skates down the ice with his stick up like a tomahawk to crush someone.

Anyone else think the D is getting a little soft at this point?

A lot of the rule changes and enforcement of these rules is leading to an NHL where the D are not allowed to impede, tie up, interfere, etc with the opponent. A lot of posters bring up needed the old time physical D without considering the parade these guys take to the box anytime they touch someone. They need to skate and have reach and active stick now. It's become increasingly difficult to be a good D in this league, and that's why every single team thinks they are missing slots, like 2D, 3D, etc. It's more like get used to what the new modern 2D, 3D, etc is going to look like, because it ain't gonna change anytime soon.

 

[Herby]

Have to agree about the contract length being surprising when announced. But I have a feeling DL uses contracts like Greene and Brown to both reward player loyalty and display team loyalty to players for the rest of the team and league to see. Part of the whole culture of being a King thing..

And what has that gotten the Kings since 2014? More arrests than playoff wins.

Stoll was busted with cocaine in Vegas.
Richards stopped caring and was eventually busted at the border with pain pills.
Sekera and Lucic left to the highest bidder.
Kopitar made the Kings pay absolute top dollar (as he should have)

The whole loyalty and team culture thing is way overblown, the Kings won because they had the best teams on the ice in 2012 and 2014. The reality is, when you look at Stoll, Richards and Voynov, these really weren't the best "guys" or an "amazing group". They were hockey players, assets to be bought, sold, traded etc, and that's how they should have been looked at.

Also, the notion that some here had about Greene and MR

"I'm not worried about this contract, even if it doesn't work out, Dean could always get something in a trade"

Has proven to be false, teams in 2016 are no longer taking on huge contracts for leadership, intangibles, lockerroom presence or whatever cliche we want to throw out to defend declining players.

 

[Herby]

A lot of the rule changes and enforcement of these rules is leading to an NHL where the D are not allowed to impede, tie up, interfere, etc with the opponent. A lot of posters bring up needed the old time physical D without considering the parade these guys take to the box anytime they touch someone. They need to skate and have reach and active stick now. It's become increasingly difficult to be a good D in this league, and that's why every single team thinks they are missing slots, like 2D, 3D, etc. It's more like get used to what the new modern 2D, 3D, etc is going to look like, because it ain't gonna change anytime soon.

There will always be a spot in the NHL for what Greene was in his prime. But by 2014 it was clear as day that he had reached the end of his usefulness as an NHL defenseman.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

And what has that gotten the Kings since 2014? More arrests than playoff wins.

Stoll was busted with cocaine in Vegas.
Richards stopped caring and was eventually busted at the border with pain pills.
Sekera and Lucic left to the highest bidder.
Kopitar made the Kings pay absolute top dollar (as he should have)

The whole loyalty and team culture thing is way overblown, the Kings won because they had the best teams on the ice in 2012 and 2014. The reality is, when you look at Stoll, Richards and Voynov, these really weren't the best "guys" or an "amazing group". They were hockey players, assets to be bought, sold, traded etc, and that's how they should have been looked at.

Also, the notion that some here had about Greene and MR

"I'm not worried about this contract, even if it doesn't work out, Dean could always get something in a trade"

Has proven to be false, teams in 2016 are no longer taking on huge contracts for leadership, intangibles, lockerroom presence or whatever cliche we want to throw out to defend declining players.

Well, I'm sure glad you know more than Kings staff, who correctly targeted and acquired 'character' guys like Greene and Stoll that helped build a culture that enabled team success.

There's a reason more talented teams than the Kings lose, no matter how much you want to throw out intangibles as cliche. I don't see how ANYONE can ignore the intangible of 'heart' after a run like 2014s.

 

[Herby]

Well, I'm sure glad you know more than Kings staff, who correctly targeted and acquired 'character' guys like Greene and Stoll that helped build a culture that enabled team success.

There's a reason more talented teams than the Kings lose, no matter how much you want to throw out intangibles as cliche. I don't see how ANYONE can ignore the intangible of 'heart' after a run like 2014s.

Not saying they are useless, terribly overrated yes but not completely useless. Stoll and Greene served a purpose, as did Richards because they could play at an NHL level when they were brought in. But by the end of it all of them were done as NHL'ers and when the time came to move on management couldn't do it, and it had nothing to do with on ice hockey reasons. All those things should be bonuses to players who can contribute on the ice, which those three guys didn't do. Instead they were all brought back for non-hockey reasons, and to me that's BS and a massive blunder by management.

And there was no team to come to the rescue to save them from these contracts. All those rosy cliches don't mean anything if the player can't play.

 

[Butch 19]

Greene is a great guy, but I totally get this move. He's always injured and that doesn't help us at all. Lombardi is finally ignoring his heart.

too late though. waaaaay too late.

Oh well, at least he's learning.

 

[Trolfoli]

A lot of the rule changes and enforcement of these rules is leading to an NHL where the D are not allowed to impede, tie up, interfere, etc with the opponent. A lot of posters bring up needed the old time physical D without considering the parade these guys take to the box anytime they touch someone. They need to skate and have reach and active stick now. It's become increasingly difficult to be a good D in this league, and that's why every single team thinks they are missing slots, like 2D, 3D, etc. It's more like get used to what the new modern 2D, 3D, etc is going to look like, because it ain't gonna change anytime soon.

I don't really agree with this. The Kings got called for a ton of penalties because their D were getting beat and reaching. The refs let plenty go in the finals. They aren't going to let you cheat your way out of the first round, but there's still plenty that was going uncalled later in the playoffs.

Has the referring changed or did the Kings D suck big time last year? I'm leaning toward Scuderi + Schenn in the top 4 in the playoffs being a complete joke not that the Kings style is incompatible with the way the game is being called.

 

[BigKing]

I don't really agree with this. The Kings got called for a ton of penalties because their D were getting beat and reaching. The refs let plenty go in the finals. They aren't going to let you cheat your way out of the first round, but there's still plenty that was going uncalled later in the playoffs.

Has the referring changed or did the Kings D suck big time last year? I'm leaning toward Scuderi + Schenn in the top 4 in the playoffs being a complete joke not that the Kings style is incompatible with the way the game is being called.

The refs called it very tight in the SJ series: especially on physical plays like roughing and slashing. Also big on getting the second guy.

Let' not forget the Toffoli minor in Game 2 or the Carter minor in Game 4. Those aren't playoff penalties.

They finally started calling it like the playoffs in the Finals. No surprise SJ lost at that point.

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

The refs called it very tight in the SJ series: especially on physical plays like roughing and slashing. Also big on getting the second guy.

Let' not forget the Toffoli minor in Game 2 or the Carter minor in Game 4. Those aren't playoff penalties.

They finally started calling it like the playoffs in the Finals. No surprise SJ lost at that point.

Polak was grabbing, holding, and bear hugging all playoff long. Didn't watch every game but a majority of them and can't remember him being called for holding more than a couple times.

And Burns was throwing his body around and cross checking guys the entire Pittsburgh series. Never got called. That one charge he did when he skated from the blue line to the corner and threw his backside at the Penguins player was worse than Lucic's charging and Burns didn't get called for anything.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Not saying they are useless, terribly overrated yes but not completely useless. Stoll and Greene served a purpose, as did Richards because they could play at an NHL level when they were brought in. But by the end of it all of them were done as NHL'ers and when the time came to move on management couldn't do it, and it had nothing to do with on ice hockey reasons. All those things should be bonuses to players who can contribute on the ice, which those three guys didn't do. Instead they were all brought back for non-hockey reasons, and to me that's BS and a massive blunder by management.

And there was no team to come to the rescue to save them from these contracts. All those rosy cliches don't mean anything if the player can't play.

Ohhh I get what you're saying. I agree. Heart/character/gritz doesn't completely supersede ability.I probably disagree on the amount it affects things but that's splitting hairs.

I guess the point I'm making is summed up in that trade--Edmonton no doubt got the 'best' player in the deal, he's easily more talented than Stoll and Greene combined; yet Stoll and Greene are/were much, much more effective players for this team. Obviously there's more to it than that (i.e. actual roles, for one) but their guts and willingness to get in the trenches and get dirty make them valuable more than talent does (though I'd argue that's a skill/ability on it's own--but I digress).

NOw if you're talking about off-ice character Greene was a model citizen by all accounts so lumping him in with the "character" signings gone wrong isn't fair anyway, this is a guy who with Brown helped organize the Kings' summer workouts (culture change) and was a hardcore leader, everyone from the media on down loves him, so I still maintain his contract was totally fair value at the time it was signed, you can't predict losing two whole seasons due to injury...

 

[Herby]

I have nothing negative to say about how Greene acted off the ice, and it was not my intention to lump him in with frauds like Stoll, Voynov and Richards. By all accounts he was a model citizen and literally everyone from teammates, fans, media, coaches love the guy.

Just saying, the reasons he was brought back in 2014 were ridiculous. And it gets overlooked because the GM made an even stupider decision with another guys contract.

 

[King'sPawn]

Still my favorite picture that, through it all, embodies the way Greene was on the ice:

 

[kingsfan28]

Yes.

But it's very hard to have it both ways. Not a lot of D in this league that can play at a high level AND be crushers.

Considering this board wants more mobility, guys like Greene are on their way out...so if I now start seeing complaints about losing Greene after hearing how slow/unskilled our back end is...

But if they let Greene go and sign Polak or Schenn, again, I will lose my lunch.

I hope Dean was paying attention during the playoffs, because those 2 do not fit the way defense will be played in the future. And yeah, I'll barf right with you if we see those two on this team.

 

[kingsfan28]

The refs called it very tight in the SJ series: especially on physical plays like roughing and slashing. Also big on getting the second guy.

Let' not forget the Toffoli minor in Game 2 or the Carter minor in Game 4. Those aren't playoff penalties.

They finally started calling it like the playoffs in the Finals. No surprise SJ lost at that point.

Pretty sure if they called those ticky tack penalties they did in round one during the finals, Burns and Thornton would've had about 8 each.