WhalerTurnedBruin55
Fading out, thanks for the times.
- Oct 31, 2008
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Hypothetically, I think Charlie Coyle would probably be similar value. Minnesota just needs more Charlie Coyle's, really.
Value of: Matt Dumba
- Thread starter dkollidas
- Start date
Hypothetically, I think Charlie Coyle would probably be similar value. Minnesota just needs more Charlie Coyle's, really.
PuckInTheNards
Registered User
- Feb 4, 2008
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According to Russo, Dumbas value was between RNH straight up and RNH + 2nd (fletcher was willing to do the straight up trade but not add the pick). Moot point now, I think - Wild's roster is pretty much set (for better or worse). They'll let Spurgeon, Scandella Dumba and Brodin play out the season to see who to protect in the expansion draft. D corps will be fine regardless of who they lose
nickschultzfan
Registered User
- Jan 7, 2009
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If that's true, I'm really disappointed in Fletcher. Could have had a great young center who hasn't even entered his prime.
Bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. We are opting for the bush.
Dickie Dunn
Registered User
I don't believe that for a second. RNH, lousy season/6M/yr contract and all, is worth significantly more than Dumba. Dumba has shown flashes of being something really good, but as of now he is not there. Anyone getting him would be betting on his potential....which isn't a bad bet, but still a gamble.
If that was indeed the deal, the Fletcher has some explaining to do.
I also don't get why Dumba is worth a Coyle. Coyle has been playing top6 minutes for 3 years now, and brings size and strength that Dumba will never have. Dumba still isn't playing top4 minutes-partly because of the guys ahead of him( hint, someone needs to be traded)- and partly because he just isn't steady enough.
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Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
My guess, unless Brodin has a phenomenal bounce back year (or Dumba has a disastrous one), is that they protect Suter, Spurgeon and Dumba. Expose Brodin/Scandella. Could have worse problems than moving forward with a top 4 of Suter - Spurgeon and Scandella/Brodin - Dumba
Assuming he makes the leap to "great center" and doesn't just stay at his current level of "good".
Hayes is not chopped liver.
would prefer Stepan for Dumba +
helps w/NY goals to get younger, cheaper.
Obv, even w/Dumba + a 1st, which is an agreeable prospect away, something that makes cap work -- Wild cap dump -- is needed, though we have to estimate something for RFA Dumba.
Good luck.
That is a tall order.
The Wild are not exactly looking to trade Dumba. A similar age and potential type player needs to come back if teams are going after him. Hint: not Stepan.
I don't think Fletcher is sold on RNH so that says it all for that situation.
DANOZ28
Registered User
we have no reason to dump dumba , the only way we trade him is if we get exactly what we need & dont overpay.
9th youngest defender in the league to play 40+ games. The guys in the same age range to hit close to his level of production are largely considered to be untouchable because why would you trade a 21 year old already scoring 10 goals from the blue line? The only reason Dumba is being discussed is because he's part of a blue line that is overloaded. And as a result it's perceived that his value is low just because he's feasibly available.
He's not being actively shopped, not being dumped. He's available for a fair return. Stephan is not that return, and you're crazy if you think Dumba would come with a + for Stephan.
Dampland
Registered User
I disagree, I have seen virtually nothing from RNH during his career to imply he is "great" or even "above average". Besides his horrible contract, this guy is a walking MASH unit, as he cannot play full seasons; and when he does, they aren't impressive.
I'm not saying that Dumba is the next Bobby Orr, but the fact that RNH has been shopped for two years now, and no deal has been made seems to show how over-valued he is in Edmonton.
Bender
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- Sep 25, 2002
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Sorry, and this is coming from a guy who is NOT a big RNH fan, but he has missed very few games besides last year, and a hand injury isn't one that i worry about in a hockey player.
I don't know what to say if you think that "old man" RNH (22yo? 23?)is an average player. Average #1 oa draft pick, sure. Average hockey player at the forward position? Not even close.
I also don't get the hysteria about Dumba and his value.
I understand a Dumba/RNH deal not working out because of money, but not any other reason. MN needs to add players/salaries, which EDM is able to handle in the short term. Throw in team needs, and it's a no brainer.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
It's only a no-brainer if you think that a) Dumba isn't going to be an offensive force from the blueline, and b) if you think RNH has a lot more in him than the 55ish points he's been putting up. Both points are subject for debate.
c) you don't want to make the Oilers better and they take away the Wild's WC spot.
Trading with the Oilers is almost to the level of an intradivisonal trade imo. Yearly we're a fringe playoff team. Give EDM any type of passable NHL defense and they are a fringe playoff team.
I hear you, and I am simply saying there is a dearth of young talent, which is why a core piece is only being moved if surplus forces it. Miller, Kreider, that group are not going. Expect similar on other clubs as to Rangers.
Then have to see if there is competition, like maybe Canes/Ducks are exceptions w/surplus D.
So either you change your premise, and take Dumba off the table by moving a vet, or you recognize you are more likely to have to do a vet for Dumba.
Of course, there are mid 30 vets, and others approaching 30 in their prime. Something to think about.
with the rate of progression we've seen in Dumba vs that of RNH no thanks. Glad we "missed out" on that.
could be RNH has a phenomonal year with Edmonton now that they've got some D, but Dumba is young and cheap and has shown a lot of growth so far. With Stevens running the show back there expect Dumba to start hitting more, too.
could be RNH has a phenomonal year with Edmonton now that they've got some D, but Dumba is young and cheap and has shown a lot of growth so far. With Stevens running the show back there expect Dumba to start hitting more, too.
nickschultzfan
Registered User
- Jan 7, 2009
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Assumptions cut both ways.
Either we are assuming RNH and Dumba both stop growing or both will continue to grow.
There isn't a lacking of young talent in the league. There is on the Rangers. Which is why the Wild wouldn't be trading with the Rangers. Just because you don't have the young talent to land our guy doesn't mean we have to trade with you. It just means you need to trade with teams that are interested in your players.
And again, the Wild aren't trying to move Dumba so they aren't going to settle in order to move him. If fair value comes back they could move him. If fair value isn't found they won't move him.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
I'd say it's a little more common for a 22/23 year old forward to be at least closer to what he is, than a 21/22 year old defenseman. But that's what everybody has their own opinion on and the deciding factor in whether or not the deal is a good one for both teams: by how much can RNH still improve vs. how much Dumba can, and what's the likelihood of each?
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
good luck
The difference between actively shopping a guy around vs. picking up the phone when it rings.
Or one continues to grow and one doesn't. After 5 seasons I would expect RNH to remain what he has been which is a 55-60 point center that's bad at faceoffs and maybe average defensively, though it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility that his game becomes more well rounded. Maybe 60-65 point on a more balanced team, but I doubt he explodes to more than that since he's already playing full minutes and full PP time. After 2 seasons in which he has progressed both years I would have more confidence that Dumba is more likely to see a massive upswing in his game as he earns more ice time and finally actually gets top PP time.
