Movies: Marvel Cinematic Universe Discussion - Part 4

[Jussi]

Action packed thrill rides. Like Scorcese said, they're like a theme park ride. I genuinely wouldn't consider them "cinema".

The MCU is literally the only thing I go to the theatre for and to call me a cinephile would be absolutely ridiculous.

The MCU is fun superhero movies. They aren't high art.

This is like getting mad at Bob Dylan for saying he doesn't like the Black Eyed Peas.

James Wan's directed nothing but "amusement park ride" films and he works for DC. I wonder how he feels about Scorsese's comments? And Gunn is directing the new Suicide Squad for DC, so it's not just Marvel related.

 

[Jussi]

Idk, is it crazy to think they drum up controversy on purpose for the free advertising? Scorsese with The Irishman, Phillips with The Joker. It doesn't even matter who you are or aren't attacking, it bounces back and forth in the media for a few weeks, everytime getting mentioned along with "the Joker premiering October 4th".

MCU is closer to TV than cinema with the neverending story (or lack of story) and sequels. There isnt much of a beginning, middle or end to any of it.

There's beginning alright for each character, but just like the comics, their "adventures" and development as characters can last for decades. The MCU films have done character development with some characters in 10ish years that (could) have taken decades in the comics.

 

[Jussi]

Matthew Vaughn Wants to Direct Fantastic Four in the Marvel Cinematic Universe

 

[Epictetus]

They are a nice, relatively cheaply-priced thrill, where you can take the kids and suspend reality for a bit. Nothing more.

 

[Jussi]

Sam Jackson's response:

Samuel L. Jackson Responds to Martin Scorsese’s Marvel Comments

 

[bleedblue1223]

Scorsese isn't wrong. Heck, he called them essentially theme parks. That's not saying they shouldn't exist, but just that they are shallow entertainment, which is what they are, and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[Jussi]

Scorsese isn't wrong. Heck, he called them essentially theme parks. That's not saying they shouldn't exist, but just that they are shallow entertainment, which is what they are, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Tell that to everyone who cried at theaters after Tony's death in Endgame.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Tell that to everyone who cried at theaters after Tony's death in Endgame.

By shallow, I'm saying there isn't some sort of deep meaning in each movie, there isn't a message being made. It's the same with Star Wars or Fast & Furious or Star Trek or anything else like those IMO. It doesn't mean you can't have a strong emotional connection to them. What many of these franchises do great is connecting with the fans. I know many that cry at the end of Furious 7, it's still a shallow movie, but Paul Walker just connected deeply with the fans.

While I have plenty of issues with the voters, it's not like a MCU movie is going to win Best Picture.

 

[Jussi]

By shallow, I'm saying there isn't some sort of deep meaning in each movie, there isn't a message being made. It's the same with Star Wars or Fast & Furious or Star Trek or anything else like those IMO. It doesn't mean you can't have a strong emotional connection to them. What many of these franchises do great is connecting with the fans. I know many that cry at the end of Furious 7, it's still a shallow movie, but Paul Walker just connected deeply with the fans.

While I have plenty of issues with the voters, it's not like a MCU movie is going to win Best Picture.

Or Harry Potter.

Movies don't have to have a deep meaning just like books. They can be just entertainment and there's nothing wrong with it.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Or Harry Potter.

Movies don't have to have a deep meaning just like books. They can be just entertainment and there's nothing wrong with it.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. There's nothing wrong with it, it's just not what Scorsese considers cinema. He's one of the old-school that thinks real films have those deeper messages and not just the simple good vs bad. Comparing the MCU to theme parks to me is him saying they still have their place, but it's just a different category. I think that's a fair take to have.

 

[Jussi]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. There's nothing wrong with it, it's just not what Scorsese considers cinema. He's one of the old-school that thinks real films have those deeper messages and not just the simple good vs bad. Comparing the MCU to theme parks to me is him saying they still have their place, but it's just a different category. I think that's a fair take to have.

Considering he's friends with George Lucas, it feels odd. Star Wars films are the definition of "theme park rides".

 

[bleedblue1223]

Considering he's friends with George Lucas, it feels odd. Star Wars films are the definition of "theme park rides".

I just think some are taking it as a much more critical take than what it was meant to be.

 

[OhCaptainMyCaptain]

I just think some are taking it as a much more critical take than what it was meant to be.

As I've said, my biggest issue was him saying it's not cinema. That part went a little too far. But the rest is pretty accurate.

 

[bleedblue1223]

As I've said, my biggest issue was him saying it's not cinema. That part went a little too far. But the rest is pretty accurate.

Yeah, I see what he was saying, but it didn't come off right judging by all the reactions. It's sort of like saying photography isn't art because you aren't creating anything. I see the point, but it's a bit more nuanced.

 

[Jussi]

If Don Rickles were still alive, he'd definitely have new material to roast Scorsese with.

"Come on Marty, you made Casino, the dullest movie ever. I should know because I was in it! I had to be woken up on the set constantly because the script put me to sleep all the time! And I was only reading my lines, all 3 of them!"

 

[discostu]

By shallow, I'm saying there isn't some sort of deep meaning in each movie, there isn't a message being made. It's the same with Star Wars or Fast & Furious or Star Trek or anything else like those IMO. It doesn't mean you can't have a strong emotional connection to them. What many of these franchises do great is connecting with the fans. I know many that cry at the end of Furious 7, it's still a shallow movie, but Paul Walker just connected deeply with the fans.

While I have plenty of issues with the voters, it's not like a MCU movie is going to win Best Picture.

I don't think winner of Best Picture should be synonymous with what is defined as "cinema", but we're less than a year out from Black Panther being nominated, and I'm guessing that the movie was probably in contention on voting. I'd personally say it's more cinematic than the ultimate winner.

But, I also fully understand someone like Scorsese who disagrees.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I don't think winner of Best Picture should be synonymous with what is defined as "cinema", but we're less than a year out from Black Panther being nominated, and I'm guessing that the movie was probably in contention on voting. I'd personally say it's more cinematic than the ultimate winner.

But, I also fully understand someone like Scorsese who disagrees.

I partly agree. Best Picture excludes too many genres IMO, and usually when those genres are included there are other reasons for why they are nominates besides the movie itself.

 

[RandV]

By shallow, I'm saying there isn't some sort of deep meaning in each movie, there isn't a message being made. It's the same with Star Wars or Fast & Furious or Star Trek or anything else like those IMO. It doesn't mean you can't have a strong emotional connection to them. What many of these franchises do great is connecting with the fans. I know many that cry at the end of Furious 7, it's still a shallow movie, but Paul Walker just connected deeply with the fans.

While I have plenty of issues with the voters, it's not like a MCU movie is going to win Best Picture.

It's a snobbish art-house take that I understand but have never been a fan of. To me it really just comes down to a matter of personal preference and the decision on what counts as "cinema" and goes up for awards is held by one group with a specific taste. I'd say you could rag on some academy award winners/nominees just as easily as you can on the MCU movies.

The thing I really wanted to add here is I really feel this type of criticism really sells the MCU short. Like if it's all just "shallow" 'amusement park rides' why isn't everyone making 10+ year long continuous franchises with an unbroken streak of financial hits and multiple $1B+ box office takes? Even if you consider them amusement park rides the Marvel people have proven to be mastercrafts at this game standing heads and shoulders above everyone else making it their own form of "art" that deserves respect.

 

[izzy]

Matthew Vaughn Wants to Direct Fantastic Four in the Marvel Cinematic Universe

thatd be sick

 

[bleedblue1223]

It's a snobbish art-house take that I understand but have never been a fan of. To me it really just comes down to a matter of personal preference and the decision on what counts as "cinema" and goes up for awards is held by one group with a specific taste. I'd say you could rag on some academy award winners/nominees just as easily as you can on the MCU movies.

The thing I really wanted to add here is I really feel this type of criticism really sells the MCU short. Like if it's all just "shallow" 'amusement park rides' why isn't everyone making 10+ year long continuous franchises with an unbroken streak of financial hits and multiple $1B+ box office takes? Even if you consider them amusement park rides the Marvel people have proven to be mastercrafts at this game standing heads and shoulders above everyone else making it their own form of "art" that deserves respect.

Scorsese wasn't saying what they do is easy though.

 

[tacogeoff]

Scorsese isn't wrong. Heck, he called them essentially theme parks. That's not saying they shouldn't exist, but just that they are shallow entertainment, which is what they are, and there is nothing wrong with that.

yup. you are spot on. They are very fun popcorn flicks that do not have much substance and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that or his statement IMO.

 

[S E P H]

Did you lot literally have a two page argument about people bashing people who are all so rich they use US bills as toilet paper? There are way important things going on in the world that need our attention than 99.9% of Hollywood drama.

 

[OhCaptainMyCaptain]

Did you lot literally have a two page argument about people bashing people who are all so rich they use US bills as toilet paper? There are way important things going on in the world that need our attention than 99.9% of Hollywood drama.

Well yes, but that's what I use other message boards for, of course.

Also, you just contributed to the very thing you're criticizing.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Did you lot literally have a two page argument about people bashing people who are all so rich they use US bills as toilet paper? There are way important things going on in the world that need our attention than 99.9% of Hollywood drama.

I don't think people of HF can solve world hunger or income inequality or war or whatever. According to your post, none of us should even be on this site discussing anything.

 

[Jussi]

Did you lot literally have a two page argument about people bashing people who are all so rich they use US bills as toilet paper? There are way important things going on in the world that need our attention than 99.9% of Hollywood drama.

Still better than Tottenham vs Arsenal discussion.