I have 23 dollars and a Starburst in my pocket right now. Can we work a deal with this?
Speculation: Martinez vs Voynov
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I have 23 dollars and a Starburst in my pocket right now. Can we work a deal with this?
Reclamation Project
Cut It All Right In Two
- Jul 6, 2011
- 34,135
- 3,783
DD
JM
VV
BM
AM
I love what Martinez brings, but the 4 guys in front of him are much more dynamic and capable of carrying the mail in bigger roles.
Martinez is great at what he is, which is a depth defenseman.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
Not now, but going forward in the next two years, probably. Gaborik, Kopitar, RFAs, etc.
There's always the outside chance the cap goes up a bit and I'm sure we're going to replace some from within.
I don't think it's about the Kings not having the money to resign Martinez. On the Kings AMart is going to be a 3rd pairing guy. Sutter isn't going to put him with DD/VV unless there is an injury. From the Kings point of view they'll need to over pay Martinez to be a 3rd pairing. If Martinez leaves he'll probably get offered more money from a team that will give him more ice time. More money and more ice time would be hard to turn down I'd imagine.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
etherialone
dialed in your mom
I should have listed mine in order. I just put up the initials of the D I see playing for us.
I guess I would go
DD
VV
JM
AM
BM
in that order if I had to rate them.
I think AMart is more than the average depth Dman and even see him as a potential 2nd pairing caliber of player if he keeps moving forward. A #4 on a contender in a year or two wouldn't surprise me for his development.
That said I would put KG above BM as they stand today and by a bit of a margin too. Going to be interesting to see how that whole thing shakes out.
If we add a depth D Vet to our group I think we will not only remain right there with the best in the game but could be even better then we are today. Give it a season or two at the outside and I would be willing to bet that we have the top group of young D in the game.
lumbergh
It was an idea. I didn't say it was a good idea.
I'll be the lone dissenter here, but I'd go with AMart. He's had arguably the best season statistically of all the defensemen on the Kings. Led the Kings in goals as a defenseman, despite playing only 3/4 of the season. To me, he has blown past Voynov on the depth chart. Second best defenseman on this team.
That being said, both are keepers.
That being said, both are keepers.
jace29
Registered User
That was absolutely an awful play, the wrong play, not a gamble. muzzin has more of these plays go wrong for him a year than martinez or slava. just because hes on the first pair does not make him the best defensively of the three. there are other factors that go into it.
jace29
Registered User
im in your boat.
not even just stats-wise but i think people who argue that muzzin is better defensively than amart are incorrect.
I never said Muzzin was the best defensively of the three. Voynov is the 2nd best D we have, but he plays the right side, same as DD, hence he can never be on the top pair.
When will you admit that Marty gets 3rd pair minutes against weaker competition? Because guess what - he does. It is what it is. Love Marty, but he's had more a few gaffes this year as well. If Marty were a rock defensively, he would be promoted to one of the top two pairs. Remember, Marty is a lefty, so the natural presumption would be that he could slot alongside DD or Voynov if he were that good. Yet he languishes on the 3rd pair.
Using one play out of many over the course of a year doesn't convince me about anything. The fact that the coaches trust Voynov and Muzzin with tougher assignments and more ice time speaks volumes.
HYORI 1963
Grit & Character
That has more to do with the fact that Amart is a PMD much like VV and DD. Sutter generally likes to pair up a PMD with a SAH dmen, and not PMD/PMD.
Muzzin is hardly a SAH dman. He's more of a 2 way D-man who has the skating skill to move the puck out of trouble. I don't think anyone has confused Muzzin for a SAH, ever. In fact, I'd argue that DD covers Muzzin a lot more than the other way around.
If A-Mart were 20 lbs heavier and better defensively, he'd be a 2 way D-man who'd be able to play on the top 2 pairs (and resultantly get more ice time). As it is, he fits his role perfectly -- a PMD on the 3rd pair.
HYORI 1963
Grit & Character
Yeah, Muzz is more of a hybrid, but he's definitely more a SAH dman than VV or Amart.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
For our team for sure. For another team, he's a top-4 d-man easily. He's going to want the extra money and playing time and he's worth it. He's basically Ference minus the ******* streak.
My biggest deal with Voynov, is he has no drive, determination, moxie, sense of urgency, or intensity. ZERO. The opposite of a warrior.
He doesn't use what was one of his best assets, which was speed. When was the last time you saw him skate his ass off? He's very very very lax.
Extend Martinez to 2.5 - 3 cap hit and deal the 4.16 million cap hit Voynov. take the extra million that is needed to give Gaborik
a good offer.
He doesn't use what was one of his best assets, which was speed. When was the last time you saw him skate his ass off? He's very very very lax.
Extend Martinez to 2.5 - 3 cap hit and deal the 4.16 million cap hit Voynov. take the extra million that is needed to give Gaborik
a good offer.
Last edited:
KingsHockey24
Registered User
- Aug 1, 2013
- 14,764
- 13,620
rajuabju
The One & Only
Agree with this, just not sure Martinez will want to stay when he could go elsewhere and play every day. Especially now that he already has a ring. I'll be honest though, it would suck to see him in another teams colors.
Quattro
Registered User
- Aug 5, 2005
- 4,909
- 56
HYORI 1963
Grit & Character
Posts like this are why this emoticon was invented ------>
Try having a discussion once in awhile. All you ever do is quote people and criticize. Did someone make you God???
From Scott Cullen, tsn.com on todays game:
Kings D Alec Martinez had an assist, but was also on the ice for 18 shot attempts for and seven against (72.0%) during 5-on-5 play. With Martinez off the ice, the Kings got 39.1% of the 5-on-5 shot attempts. At the same time, the Kings' top defence pairing of Drew Doughty and Jake Muzzin were both on for less than 30% of the shot attempts at 5-on-5.
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I like Marty as much as the next guy, but lets not get carried away with his defensive abilities.
Kings D Alec Martinez had an assist, but was also on the ice for 18 shot attempts for and seven against (72.0%) during 5-on-5 play. With Martinez off the ice, the Kings got 39.1% of the 5-on-5 shot attempts. At the same time, the Kings' top defence pairing of Drew Doughty and Jake Muzzin were both on for less than 30% of the shot attempts at 5-on-5.
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I like Marty as much as the next guy, but lets not get carried away with his defensive abilities.
The stat Cullen quoted was positive, so I'm not sure where you're going with your last sentence. You want your team to have more shot attempts at even strength. 72% is extraordinary, simply a massive possession advantage with him on the ice.
Part of that is getting o-zone starts on a good team, while Drew and Muzzin are doing the heavy lifting, but still. He does more with those soft minutes than other defensemen who get the same treatment. That is a distinct edge the Kings have over the Blackhawks' 3rd pairing right now. Not something to take for granted.
