SeanMoneyHands
Registered User
- Apr 18, 2019
- 15,752
- 15,249
Martin St. Louis or Claude Giroux?
- Thread starter SeanMoneyHands
- Start date
-
Work is still on-going to rebuild the site styling and features. Please report any issues you may experience so we can look into it. Click Here for Updates
Sky04
Registered User
- Jan 8, 2009
- 29,820
- 19,200
MSL takes both peak and career not really a good poll he has the hardware, scoring finishes and the cup...
SensontheRush
Never said it was Sunshine
I feel like comparing scoring eras would make this more favourable for Giroux, but surface level comparison says St. Louis for both.
Fatass
Registered User
- Apr 17, 2017
- 24,656
- 16,390
I Hate Blake Coleman
Bandwagon Burner
I mean, St. Louis was better relative to his competition. He has accolades and hardware to show for it. I'm not sure how you can argue in Giroux's favour in any way.
wintersej
Registered User
Individually for their career, Cups are a team effort, it’s very close. At their best, Giroux wasn’t a real Hart contender.
Video Nasty
Registered User
- Mar 12, 2017
- 5,967
- 10,519
St. Louis won as many Art Rosses as Crosby. That has to count for something.
BigBadBruins7708
Registered User
I'm not going to argue Giroux should win but I was not a believer and thought he was a bit of a PP merchant. He's been very effective in Ottawa. He's taken a step back this season and had issues with consistency this season but since the new year he has been a bright spot.
I was wrong about him. Too bad he couldn't win a cup with Philadelphia. I hope Ottawa can win but it's a longshot. If he doesn't re-sign in Ottawa I hope he gets a chance to win somewhere else.
Also St Louis had the benefit of Lecavalier and Richards. Maybe I'm remembering wrong but I don't think Giroux had quite that caliber a player with him that long but I'm open to being wrong, going off memory
I was wrong about him. Too bad he couldn't win a cup with Philadelphia. I hope Ottawa can win but it's a longshot. If he doesn't re-sign in Ottawa I hope he gets a chance to win somewhere else.
Also St Louis had the benefit of Lecavalier and Richards. Maybe I'm remembering wrong but I don't think Giroux had quite that caliber a player with him that long but I'm open to being wrong, going off memory
Felidae
Registered User
- Sep 30, 2016
- 12,750
- 16,248
I just accidentally deleted my post comparing their competition during their peak seasons.. too pissed to redo everything again..
So i'll just say this is one of those cases were looking at point and hart finishes doesn't tell the whole story.
MSL's 2003-04 Art Ross is probably the weakest in the 21st century outside of Benn. Fortunately for MSL, Forsberg who was lapping the competition, got injured. Even than, Kovalchuk and Sakic (probably not even a top 3 season of his career) wasnt trailing far behind.
The hart competiton was pretty awful too. Iginla wasn't even top 10 in points and was somehow 2nd in hart voting. Whether he deserved that placement or not, it goes to show how weak the year was. When was the last time a forward that didn't finish top 10 in scoring finished as a hart finalist?
2012-13, same deal in which Crosby most likely would have lapped the field if not for injuries. The competition was strong though.
Even in 2010-11, D. Sedin and Corey Perry is not the strongest competition.
Meanwhile, Claude Giroux in 2010-11 is competing against the best goalscoring season and arguably Art Ross win of that decade.
Then in 2017-18 is 2nd place to McDavid, and while it's one of his weaker art Ross trophies, it's still stronger than what MSL faced in 2003-04.
Even 2013-14 where he finished 3rd in Hart voting.. Crosby that year was a stronger art Ross win than D. Sedin who had the same point total in a higher scoring environment, and definitely stronger competition than Kovalchuk or Iginla.
If you were to compare each of their peak seasons and see how far ahead they were against the 10th, 20th place scorers, I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't much of a gap.
So i'll just say this is one of those cases were looking at point and hart finishes doesn't tell the whole story.
MSL's 2003-04 Art Ross is probably the weakest in the 21st century outside of Benn. Fortunately for MSL, Forsberg who was lapping the competition, got injured. Even than, Kovalchuk and Sakic (probably not even a top 3 season of his career) wasnt trailing far behind.
The hart competiton was pretty awful too. Iginla wasn't even top 10 in points and was somehow 2nd in hart voting. Whether he deserved that placement or not, it goes to show how weak the year was. When was the last time a forward that didn't finish top 10 in scoring finished as a hart finalist?
2012-13, same deal in which Crosby most likely would have lapped the field if not for injuries. The competition was strong though.
Even in 2010-11, D. Sedin and Corey Perry is not the strongest competition.
Meanwhile, Claude Giroux in 2010-11 is competing against the best goalscoring season and arguably Art Ross win of that decade.
Then in 2017-18 is 2nd place to McDavid, and while it's one of his weaker art Ross trophies, it's still stronger than what MSL faced in 2003-04.
Even 2013-14 where he finished 3rd in Hart voting.. Crosby that year was a stronger art Ross win than D. Sedin who had the same point total in a higher scoring environment, and definitely stronger competition than Kovalchuk or Iginla.
If you were to compare each of their peak seasons and see how far ahead they were against the 10th, 20th place scorers, I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't much of a gap.
Voight
#winning
MSL won the Art Ross when Giroux was in his prime anyhow
Giroux struggled to really create space for himself after 2014 (so the last decade). He was able to put up some points in 17-18 but he wasn't the same player. The Flyers changed their system to create a lot of rush chances and he was on a stacked line, but he was no longer a true driver at 5v5. Very similar to Huberdeau finishing second in scoring a few years later.
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
Sasha Orlov
Lord of the Manor
- Jun 22, 2018
- 9,546
- 22,647
